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Cataclysm Healing Priest Theorycrafting


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#1 Carnathagia

Carnathagia

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 10:45 PM

Purpose

This thread is for collaboration on Priest theorycrafting for both Holy and Discipline specs. The goal is to have an accurate model of healing and spell mechanics to facilitate theorycrafting. Corrections or additions to formulas, theorycrafting observations, healing modeling discussion, and additional testing results should be posted here. General Priest discussion or questions should not be posted in this thread.


Spell Coefficients and Formulas

To calculate the value of a spell, the formula (BaseValue + Spellpower * Coefficient) * Modifiers is used.

[TABLE]Level |80 Base Value |85 Base Value |Coefficient |Modifiers
Shield |3498 |3906 |0.418 |Imp. PW:S, SD, TD
Renew* |1096 |1224 |0.131 |SH+IR+GoR, TD
Heal |2340:2719 |3136:3644 |0.3624 |SH+EH, TD
Flash Heal |4680:5439 |6272:7289 |0.7248 |SH+EH, TD
Greater Heal |6239:7250 |8361:9717 |0.9672 |SH+EH, TD
Binding Heal |2952:3795 |4752:6110 |0.543 |SH+EH, TD
Prayer of Mending* |2661 |2971 |0.318 |SH, TD
Prayer of Healing |2711:2864 |3633:3837 |0.400 |SH, TD
Holy Nova* |1518:1765 |1696:1972 |0.196 |SH, TD
Divine Hymn* |3590 |4009 |0.429 |SH, TD
Penance* |2107:2380 |2352:2656 |0.268 |TD
Circle of Healing |1591:1757 |1776:1962 |0.2 |SH, TD
Desperate Prayer |4384:5173 |4896:5776 |0.571 |TD
Lightwell* |2576 |2878 |0.308 |25%
Serenity(Heal) |4655:5463 |5198:6100 |0.604 |TD
Sanctuary(PoH)* |268:319 |299:355 |0.03 |SH, TD
Smite |584:655 |653:732 |0.714 |TD
[/TABLE]
*Per tick value
SH = Spiritual Healing, 15%; Imp PW:S = Improved Power Word: Shield, 20%; TD = Twin Disciplines 6%;, IR = Improved Renew, 10%; GoR = Glyph of Renew, 10%; EH = Empowered Healing, 15%; SD = Shield Discipline, 20%+


The direct relationship between the base values and the coefficients of (most) spells means that we can derive a formula for comparing Spellpower as a rating; that is, a measure of how much Spellpower is needed to gain a 1% increase to healing.

(BaseValue + Spellpower * Coefficient) * Modifiers = BaseValue * (1 + Spellpower / BaseValue / Coefficient) * Modifiers.
At level 85, dividing the base values by the coefficient gives us ~9345. Therefore, your Spellpower will give your spells additional value equal to Spellpower / 9345. Using Heal as an example, with 6000 spellpower:

2824 + 6000 * 0.302 = 4636
2824 + 6000 * 0.302 = 2824 * (1 + 6000 / 9345)
6000 / 9345 = .642
2824 * 1.642 = 4637

With 6000 Spellpower, Heal gains 64.2% additional value.

Since it takes 93.45 spellpower to gain a 1% increase to your spells (93.45 / 9345 = 1 / 100), it can be said that it takes 93.45 Spellpower 'Rating' to equal a 1% increase. This makes it easier to directly compare the throughput value of Spellpower with other ratings to determine basic stat weightings.

The spells that do not follow this convention are Binding Heal (100.01) and Holy Word: Sanctuary (105.32); these spells will not scale as well as our other healing spells, though only slightly.

[TABLE]Statistic| Rating | Increase | Adjusted
Disc Mastery| 179.28 | 2.5% | 71.71
Spellpower | 93.45 | 1% | 93.45
Haste | 128.06 | 1% | 128.06
Holy Mastery| 179.28 | 1.25% | 143.42
Disc Critical | 179.28 | .86% | 208.47
Holy Critical | 179.28 | 0.5% | 358.56
[/TABLE]


Character Stats

Intellect
Intellect increases your Spellpower by 1, Spell Critical Chance by .001541, and Mana by 15. The first 18 Intellect will not give mana, and the first 10 Intellect will not give Spellpower

Spirit
Spirit increases your Spirit Regen according to the following formula:
Spirit Regen = Sqrt(Intellect) * Spirit *.016725

Mastery
Mastery rating conversions.
[TABLE]Level | Rating/Mastery
80 | 45.9059
81 | 60.2784
82 | 79.1556
83 | 103.9860
84 | 136.5379
85 | 179.2799[/TABLE]

Mastery adds 1.25% additional healing to direct heals with Echo of Light for Holy, and 2.5% additional absorption for Discipline.

Critical
Critical rating conversions
[TABLE]Level | Rating/Critical %
80| 45.9059
81| 60.2784
82| 79.1556
83| 103.9860
84| 136.5379
85| 179.2799[/TABLE]

Critical heals are 150% of the value of a non critical heal. Divine Aegis adds 10% additional healing as an absorption shield per point, increased by your Shield Discipline mastery.

Healing = Average Heal * (1 + Critical% * (0.5 + Divine Aegis * Shield Discipline)

Haste
Haste Rating Conversions
[TABLE]Level | Rating/Haste %
80| 32.79
81| 43.0559
82| 56.5397
83| 74.2755
84| 97.527
85| 128.057[/TABLE]

Haste increases your casting speed according to the following formula:
Base Cast Time / (1 + Haste *.01)

Haste rating decreases the period length between ticks from channeled spells and heal over time effects according to the same formula, replacing the Base Cast Time with the channeling time or tick period. Durations are determined from the period times the number of ticks. You get k more ticks for a hot/dot that has m ticks at 0% haste if your haste is higher than (2k-1)/2m.

Haste rating converts to a 1% increase at a much quicker rate than other secondary stat ratings, but does so without providing any increase in efficiency. Generally, it lets you spend your mana faster, and is devalued any time you aren't GCD locked.

We end up accumulating a certain amount of haste. Now if we get close to one of the haste levels beyond which we gain another renew tick, then the next N haste rating points have extremely good returns on efficiency.

So, when looking for efficiency, we need to look at where current our haste rating is. Regemming two slots for haste to get another renew tick is an awesome deal.



Haste rating is additive, haste buffs and percentages are multiplicative.

To calculate the number of ticks for a given haste:
Int[Base # Ticks * (1+ Haste *.01) + 0.5]

To calculate the Haste Rating needed to reduce spell cast time from base cast time to any desired cast time you use:
((Base Cast Time / Desired Cast Time) - 1) * Rating Conversion * 100

With the removal of Enlightenment and 3% Haste buff, the reduction of Borrowed Time (14% at max rank), and the change to Darkness (3% available in Tier 1 Shadow), we have new caps and plateaus for Haste rating.

[TABLE]Condition |50% (GCD) |37.5% (Renew x 6) |12.5% (Renew x 5)
85 |6402.9 |4802.3 |1601.1
85, 1/3 |6212.7 |4627.9 |1458.4
85, 2/3 |6026.2 |4457.0 |1318.6
85, 3/3 |5843.4 |4289.4 |1181.5
85, 5% |5488.2 |3963.8 |915.0
85, 5%, 1/3 |5307.0 |3797.8 |779.2
85, 5%, 2/3 |5129.5 |3635.0 |646.0
85, 5%, 3/3 |4955.3 |3475.4 |515.4
85, BT | 4043.9 |2639.9 |
85, BT, 1/3| 3877.1 |2487.0
85, BT, 2/3 | 3713.5 |2337.0
85, BT, 3/3 |3553.1 |2190.0
85, 5%, BT |3241.5 |1904.4
85, 5%, BT, 1/3 |3082.7 |1758.8
85, 5%, BT, 2/3 |2926.9 |1616.0
85, 5%, BT, 3/3 |2774.1 |1475.9
80 |1639.5 |1229.7 |410.0
80, 1/3 |1590.8 |1185.0 |373.4
80, 2/3 |1543.1 |1141.3 |337.6
80, 3/3 |1496.2 |1098.3 |302.5
80, 5%, 1/3 |1358.9 |972.4 |199.5
80, 5%, 2/3 |1313.4 |930.8 |165.4
80, 5%, 3/3 |1268.9 |889.9 |132.0
80, BT, 1/3| 992.8 |636.8
80, BT, 2/3 |950.9 |598.4 |
80, BT, 3/3 |909.8 |560.8 |
80, 5%, BT, 1/3 |789.3 |450.3|
80, 5%, BT, 2/3 |749.5 |413.8|
80, 5%, BT, 3/3 |710.3 |377.9|[/TABLE]




Regeneration

The formula for Spirit Regen is unchanged from WotLK. Combat Regeneration was changed to a percentage of your spirit regeneration plus a base amount. Meditation increases the percentage of spirit regen you retain during combat to 50%. All values are mana per 5.

Spirit Regen = Sqrt(Intellect) * Spirit *.016725
Combat Regen = Spirit Regen * Meditation + Base Regen

Base Regen for an 85 Priest is 1029 [Get more base regen values]

Holy Concentration
Holy Concentration increases the percentage of spirit regen you retain during combat to 70%.

Combat Regen = Spirit Regen * (Meditation + Holy Concentration) + Base Regen

Rapture
Rapture returns (0.5 per point + 1%) of total mana when PW: Shield is used or removed. There is a 12 second internal cooldown on this ability, but multiple Shields consumed at the same instant will give returns for each Shield before the cooldown is implemented. In order for Rapture to cause your Shields to be mana neutral, you will need:

[TABLE]Condition| Mana cost | 3/3 Rapture| 2/3 Rapture| 1/3 Rapture
none |3912 |156480 |195600 |260800
1/3 MA |3795 |151800 |189750 |253000
2/3 MA |3638 |145520 |181900 |242533
3/3 MA |3521 |140840 |176050| 234733
IW| 3325 |133000 |166250 |221667
1/3 MA, IW |3208 |128320 |160400 |213867
2/3 MA, IW |3051 |122040 |152550 |203400
3/3 MA, IW| 2934 |117360 |146700 |195600[/TABLE]

mana pool. 3 points in Mental Agililty and Inner Will buff will see us with close to mana neutral shields around the first tier of raiding with raid buffs.


Shadowfiend
Shadowfiend returns 3% of your maximum mana per attack. It will deliver 10 * (1 + Haste*0.01) attacks during its duration.

Hymn of Hope
Hymn of Hope will restore 2% total mana per tick for 4 ticks and increase your mana by 15%. The first tick does not benefit from the mana increase, but subsequent ticks do.

Inner Will and Mental Agility
Inner Will reduces the mana cost of your instant cast spells by 15%. Mental Agility reduces the mana cost of your instant cast spells by 3%/7%/10%. Though technically not 'Regen', these effects stack additively to give 25% mana cost reduction to instant cast spells.

Discipline Talents

Improved Power Word: Shield
This talent gives 10% additional absorption per point, for a total of 20% absorption at 2 points, which is not reflected in the tooltip. Whether this is a change that didn't get a tooltip update, double dipping by Power Word: Shield by this talent, or a bug is not known.

Atonement
Atonement causes your Smite to heal the person with the largest HP deficit within 8 yards of the target for 50% per point (100% at 2/2) of the damage done. The healing done will cause Divine Aegis on your critical Smites.

There are issues with larger boss hit-boxes, kiting bosses, melee leaving melee range when dangerous abilities hit or kick/knockback effects, etc.. Atonement should only be used to save mana (but requiring less overall healing to be done), not to provide healing without which players would die.


You will spend more mana than you will get back using smite, but you will get some of it back. The mana return is kind of just a bonus. With the time on evangelism increased to 20s it's a bit easier to maintain your stack.. Often times targeted healing is not required and smite becomes beneficial to use as it's heal will choose a low health target after the cast is completed.. Having a 5 stack up when a boss unleashes a particularly nasty ability can be quite handy. Squeeze as many spells in as possible while the bonus healing is active. And of course smite is faster than heal as its healing is directly related to the damage dealt, it can be very powerful during encounters where you receive a bonus damage modifier.


Divine Aegis
Divine Aegis absorbs are 30% of the critical heal amount * Shield Discipline. It will continue to stack when refreshed with whatever value it held previously. It caps at 20% of caster's total health. Multiple Divine Aegis' from different Priests will not stack, but instead create 2 separate buffs, which can each stack up to 20% of the casting Priests' health. All heals from Prayer of Healing create Divine Aegis equal to 10% per point of the amount healed.

Grace
Grace is 4% per point per stack, reaching a maximum of 24% additional healing on your primary target. This stacks multiplicatively with other healing bonuses for a very substantial increase to Disc single target healing.

Holy Talents

Chakra
Chakra has a 30 second cooldown, a 30 second duration, does not trigger a GCD when used, and can extend in duration indefinitely with State of Mind.

Heal Chakra increases the Critical chance of Heal, Greater Heal, and Flash Heal by 10%, and allows these spells to extend the duration of Renew on your target (currently not functioning). With the Revelations talent, it changes Holy Word: Chastise into Holy Word: Serenity, an efficient, instant cast direct heal that increases the Critical chance of Heal, Greater Heal, and Flash heal by 25% for 6 seconds on that target.

Prayer of Healing Chakra adds a 15% multiplier to Prayer of Healing, Prayer of Mending, Holy Nova, Divine Hymn, Renew, and Circle of Healing. In addition, the cooldown of your Circle of Healing is reduced to 8 seconds. With the Revelations talent, it changes Holy Word: Chastise into Holy Word: Sanctuary, which creates a ground targeted healing zone with a 15 yard radius that heals all targets inside over time. The heals from Sanctuary do cause Echoes of Light and can Critical.

There is some strange interaction happening between the Glyph of Prayer of Healing and Holy Word: Sanctuary. When I cast PoH, my HW:S healing increases about 5x, from 416/2 sec to about 2500/2 sec. If I crit the PoH, it increases proportionally. This "buff" to HW:S lasts as long as the Glyph of PoH buff is up.


Lightwell
Lightwell is the most efficient healing spell in the World of Warcraft, and the biggest throughput increase for 1 talent point of any healer. Many of the drawbacks of this spell have been addressed. It is now clickable from 20 yards without deselcting your target, does not need to be channeled, and can't be reused until your current Lightwell Renew has run its duration. It does still require your fellow raiders to use it for themselves, and its use cannot be macro'd. Begin training your raiders early in proper Lightwell use. The following macro can be helpful:

#showtooltip
/cast !Lightwell
/ra Use the Lightwell to heal yourself!


Surge of Light

• At very high smite/heal usage you will average just over 1 proc per minute.
• At very high smite/heal usage it is only very marginally better than 2/3 mental agility in terms of mana efficiency.
• At very high smite/heal usage 2/3 points in Darkness for 2% haste delivers better burst throughput.

Overwriting procs

C = number of proccing casts (heal & smite)
N = average number of proccing spells used before spending Surge of Light, N = 0.8 as we must chain cast to fit these spells in.
Pc = proc chance: currently 0.06 per cast
P = total average number of procs (C * Pc)
Pl = procs Lost
Pr = procs remaining (P - Pl ) This is the value we most want.

A proc is lost whenever the spell following a proc also procs. Therefore for a single spell immediately after a proc Pl = Pc * N
For a series of casts, procs lost is therefore Pl = 0.06 * N * P as procs lost is proportional to the total number of procs occuring.

Thus we can derive the following formula for total usable procs
Pr = (C * Pc) - (Pc^2 * N * C)

At 5000 spell power casting 20 proccing spells © per minute, the priest gets 1.1424 usable procs per minute.

If the priest is playing very badly so N = 2 they will still get 1.056 procs per minute or 92% of the previous case.

The mana saved is what would have been used if we were not spending a GCD on the SoL procs. This means we have to normalise for different cast times.

At 85 Smite costs 3088 mana with a 2 secs to cast. So for every surge we save: 1.5/2 * 3088 mana. In one minute we save 1.1424 * 3088 * 1.5/2
2645 mana or 220 mp5.

This priests average flash heal is 10539 healing. If you were not casting a SoL we assume you are casting Smite as it gives the biggest delta for surge of light.
Smite for this priest heals for 4458 pre-crit. Normalizing for cast time we get 1.5/2 * (10539 - 4458) * 1.1424 = 5210 extra healing or 87 hps.



Spreadsheet
Cataclsym Healing Priest Theorycrafting Spreadsheet - updated 11/22
Google Docs Version [limited functionality]
This spreadsheet calculates the effects of your spells and models customizable healing rotations.
This is still a work in progress. Bugs and errors should be reported to me via private message on these forums. Changes and additions to formulas or modeling should be posted in this thread.



Theorycrafted Spell Values and Stat Weightings


  • Holy 6/32/3
  • Tier 11 359 gear set
  • Reforged for Stat balance
  • Gemmed, enchanted, raid buffed
  • Glyphed PoH, Renew, and Lightwell


[TABLE]Stamina| 5223 |Health| 128410*
Intellect| 4816 | Mana |100254
Spirit |2774 | OOC Mp5| 4328.2
Spell Power |6760 | Combat MP5| 3338
Critical Rating |789 |Critical %| 18.06
Haste Rating |750 | Haste %| 14.48
Mastery Rating |857 |Mastery |12.78[/TABLE]
*off by 5-10 HP


Single target spells
[TABLE]| Healing| HPS | HPCT | HPM
Serenity |13806 || 10537 |11
Renew5 |19439 |1484 |19439| 5.99
Heal |10770 || 4932| 5.81
Binding Heal| 33499 || 25567| 5.81
Greater Heal| 28728 || 13156| 5.17
Flash Heal| 21540 || 16440 |3.74
Shield| 8685 || 6629| 2.96[/TABLE]


Multiple target healing spells
[TABLE]| Healing| HPS | HPCT | HPM
Lightwell |295305 |56346| 676155 |47.81
Divine Hymn |135261| 19357| 19357| 18.25
Prayer of Mending| 41771 || 31881| 15.03
Prayer of Healing| 61584 || 28202| 11.50
Circle of Healing| 26274 || 20053| 8.10
Holy Nova |14460 || 14460| 6.24
Sanctuary |41133 |2355 |94181 |5[/TABLE]


[*]Healing rotations use 1 Shadowfiend with Hymn of Hope, two Mana Tide Totems, and 98% replenishment uptime.

Single target rotation - ~11047 HPS for ~254 seconds
[TABLE]Stat |Burst |Sustained
Intellect |0.82 |2.73
Spirit | |2.80
Spell Power |0.71| 0.60
Critical |0.27 |0.23
Haste| 0.50 ||
Mastery |0.57 |0.48[/TABLE]


Multi-target healing rotation - ~20048 HPS for ~273 seconds
[TABLE]Stat |Burst |Sustained
Intellect| 1.49 |5.42
Spirit || 5.72
Spell Power |1.29 |1.17
Critical |0.48| 0.43
Haste |1.41 |
Mastery |1.04 |0.95[/TABLE]


  • Disc 33/8/0
  • Tier 11 359 gear set
  • Reforged for Stat balance
  • Gemmed, enchanted, raid buffed
  • Glyphed Penance, PW: Shield, and PoH


[TABLE]Stamina| 5223 |Health| 128410*
Intellect| 5538| Mana |111853
Spirit |2774 | OOC Mp5| 4566.9
Spell Power |6760 | Combat MP5| 2797.9
Critical Rating |789 |Critical %| 19.17
Haste Rating |750 | Haste %| 11.15
Mastery Rating |857 |Mastery |12.78[/TABLE]
*off by 5-10 HP


Single target spells
[TABLE]| Healing| HPS | HPCT | HPM
Penance| 23831 |13244 |13244 |8.27
Heal| 12360 || 5495| 6.67
Binding Heal |35655 || 26420| 6.18
Greater Heal| 32972 || 14659 |5.93
Shield| 15483 || 11473 |5.28
Flash Heal| 24722 || 18319 |4.29
Renew4*| 11636| 1078| 8622| 3.59
Smite| 9311 || 5175| 3.01[/TABLE]
*Renew5 has similar efficiency to Flash Heal, and is generally not worth using.

Multi-target spells
[TABLE]| Healing| HPS | HPCT | HPM
Divine Hymn| 114326 |15884 |15884| 15.42
Prayer of Mending| 35306 || 26162 |12.70
Prayer of Healing |57958 || 25768| 10.83
Holy Nova |12667 || 12667 |5.47[/TABLE]


Single target healing rotation - ~13113 HPS for 274 seconds
[TABLE]Stat | Burst |Sustained
Intellect |0.94 |4.20
Spirit ||3.36
Spell Power |0.77| 0.80
Critical |0.47| 0.48
Haste| 0.41 ||
Mastery| 0.24| 0.25[/TABLE]
*The stat weights for Discipline do not take Borrowed Time into account.
*Atonement is not used


Updates
- Corrected Shadowfiend [Elimbras, Hegen]
- Added Haste Caps for instants. [grisu]
- Updated Atonement to 60% per point.
- Change Atonement back to 40% per point.
- Added Haste Tick formulas [Havoc12, Elimbras]
- Added Surge of Light theorycrafting [Ellyh]
- Updated Atnoment back to 50% per point.
- Reduced Prayer of Healing cast time updated.
- Updated Rapture.
- Updated spell data table
- Updated Haste caps.
- Added Spellpower 'Rating' [Ninahagen]
- Corrected additional Penance ticks
- Updated base and coefficients for Heal, Gheal, Fheal, Bheal, PoH
- Added Grace changes
- Removed Holy Word: Aspire, changed PW: Barrier
- Added Chakra, Lightwell, Rapture under talents
- Added Glyph of PoH+Sanctuary interaction [revulva]
- Added Atonement comments [Hegen, Koilie]
- Added Holy and Disc Spell Info and Stat Weights
Emraldè - Resto/Balance Druid - Carnathagia - Holy/Disc Priest - Liltankh - Prot/Fury Warrior
Jovavich - Arcane/Fire Mage

#2 grisu

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 03:57 AM

Shield (3906 + SP * .418) * Imp PW: Shield * Twin Disciplines * Shield Discipline


Take Twin Disciplines out of the equation. Patch 12857: Twin Disciplines no longer increases the damage absorbed by Power Word: Shield.

Lightwell: not influenced by Twin Disciplines either. Formula seems to be (not 100% sure about that, did some testing with my 2 priests on beta though and it seems to be pretty accurate): (3310 + .354 * SP) * 1.15

#3 Elimbras

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 01:38 PM

Shadowfiend
Shadowfiend returns 3% of your maximum mana per hit. It will deliver 10 / (1 + Haste *.01)[confirm] hits during its duration.


This would mean the number of hits decreases with haste, which is weird ;-). Actual formula is more likely 10 * (1 + Haste*0.01)

(Haste leads to weapon speed WS = baseWS / (1+Haste.01), and hence, in a time frame T, the number of hits are T*(1+Haste * .01) / (baseWS) = base#Hits * (1+Haste*.01).).

#4 Hegen

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 03:06 PM

Shadowfiend
Shadowfiend returns 3% of your maximum mana per hit. It will deliver 10 / (1 + Haste *.01)[confirm] hits during its duration.


Did you test this? It would suggest a fundamental change of the shadowfiend implementation. It really used to be swings, not hits. Also, the amount and interval of swings varied in 3.3.3 (not taking into account possible heroism effects).

The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.


#5 Zigizi

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 04:07 PM

Does the increased healing effect of Archangel boost the absorption of PW:S and PW:B?

#6 Carnathagia

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 09:11 PM

I rested and confirmed the formula above for Lightwell, and that it and PW: Shield are unaffected by Twin Disciplines.

[TABLE]Talent| Spellpower| Tick Value| t1/1.15-t2/1.15| sp1-sp2| coefficient | base
Holy| 189 | 3883 | | |0.3542 |3310
Holy| 1935 | 4594 | 618 |1746 |0.3541 |3310
Holy| 2887 | 4974 | 949 |2698 |0.3516 |3310
Holy| 4976 | 5833 | 1696 |4787 |0.3542 |3310[/TABLE]

For the Shadowfiend, the mana gains are per attack (and now listed as such), and I corrected the botched amalgamation of a formula I had up for number of hits.

Update:
It appears that Lightwell has a 1.25 modifier separate from Spiritual Healing. Correcting the table above gives (2878 + SP * .308) * 1.25 * 1.06. I'll update this with additional testing.
Emraldè - Resto/Balance Druid - Carnathagia - Holy/Disc Priest - Liltankh - Prot/Fury Warrior
Jovavich - Arcane/Fire Mage

#7 grisu

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Posted 28 September 2010 - 11:09 PM

Does the increased healing effect of Archangel boost the absorption of PW:S and PW:B?


No, it still absorbs the exact same amount right now.

On another note: Atonement
- will critically heal when you deal critical damage with Smite (and only then), so to get the correct crit-percentage for Atonement you'll have to take the 5% from Critical Mass/Shadow Mastery into consideration
- is not influenced by Archangel, so when you activate Archangel, you actually heal less (with Atonement) than when you just keep up the 5 stacks
- is not influenced by Grace (I still receive 120% of Smite-Dmg even with 3 Stacks of Grace). Since Atonement is considered Healing by the Priest (i.e. Bogen's Atonement Heals Bogen for 0.(5347 Overhealed), it should profit from it though (at least in my logic)

#8 Zke

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 02:08 AM

So, with new talents and stuff the GCD Haste cap for Disci priests is gonna change right?

From the 3.3.5 compedium:

Haste
Regarding haste, you gain 6% from Enlightenment, and an additional 5% from Wrath of Air, plus 3% from Swift Retribution/Moonkin Aura, leaving you with only 4.67% or 154 haste rating to gain from gear to reach the hard GCD cap on PW:S (given Borrowed Time). This is why as a general rule you should aim for 4.67% of haste (or 154 haste rating), but think about whether you need more. Obviously, if you don't have all of the haste buffs, more haste makes sense until you hit the GcD cap.


My doubt is,
If it was 4.67/154 haste to gain from items, now that:
- Borrowed time changes. from 25% haste to ---> 14%
- Englightment fades. from 6% haste to ---> 0%

The haste GCD cap should be now: 4.67 : 154 = 21.67 : 714.59 ----> 715 haste points for a total of 21.67%
(if Wrath of air and Moonkin aura will still give 5% and 3%)

Please correct if i'm wrong.

#9 Imua

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 03:05 AM

I think that the spell haste buff is now 5%, and it's consolidated, so that either moonkin, spriest, and shaman can all provide it, but it doesn't stack.

So the only spell haste buff you'd get is 5%, so you'd have to get that extra 3% from your items.

Bottom line: disc priests are going to need alot more haste (well, everyone is going to) to reach that hard cap for PW:S

#10 grisu

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 03:06 AM

To calculate the Haste Rating needed to reduce spell cast time from base cast time to any desired cast time you use:

((Base Cast Time / Desired Cast Time) - 1) * Rating Conversion * 100

Since you don't get the 3% from Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution any more, and the conversion is 128.057 at 85 you get:

((1.5 / 1.05) - 1) * 128.057 * 100 = 5488.2

with Borrowed time:

((1.5 / 1.14 /1.05) - 1) * 128.057 * 100 = 3241.5

#11 Hegen

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 07:14 AM

- Englightment fades. from 6% haste to ---> 0%


You have access to 3% from Darkness in the shadow tree, though (for a price).

The simple fact is this. We are told to concentrate more. But we can only do that if we are allowed to go considerably faster.


#12 Carnathagia

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 02:50 PM

To calculate the Haste Rating needed to reduce spell cast time from base cast time to any desired cast time you use:

((Base Cast Time / Desired Cast Time) - 1) * Rating Conversion * 100


On that note, for level 80 players still doing WotLK content before Cataclysm releases but after the 4.0 class changes go through, the new haste caps will be:

Major Haste
((1.5 / 1.05 ) - 1 ) * 32.79 * 100 = 1405 rating

Borrowed Time
((1.5 / 1.14 / 1.05 ) - 1 ) * 32.79 * 100 = 830 rating
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#13 Zke

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 03:24 PM

You have access to 3% from Enlightenment in the shadow tree, though (for a price).


Not enough points to go there unfortunately.
EDIT: Maybe i've elaborated a spec with 2/3 points in that talent.. let's see in these days.

Btw, so the GCD cap will be 830 according that 3% from moonkin/retri doesn't exist anymore..

But that amount of haste ( i mean ONLY to cap GCD) count only for 4.0 before cataclysm or even with the expansion? is it that 3241 haste rating with Borrowed time told by grisu?

#14 Weerel

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 01:19 PM

There are two ways for discipline priest

Don't use Archangel
So we have to use build like this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
In this case we use standart priority system since LK:
PW:S->Penance->PoM->Heal
Very simple and stable healing

Use Archangel
In this case we need build like this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
What do we got?
advantage: we can use Archangel asap. So we have 15% increased healing for 18 sec. and restore 15% mana every 30 sec.
disadvantage: we have to use 5 smites for 5 stacks of Evangelism in order to use Archangel.

What is the result after all?

Let us consider that we cast mostly Heal or Greater heal.
So we can cast 4 Heals instead of 5 smites if the haste less or equal smite haste soft cap. More then 4 otherwise, with maximum amount 5 in case of heal haste soft cap.
After all we loose 4(5) Heals in 30 sec rotation (limitation of Archangel cooldown)
during 18 sec healing buf we can cast from 18/2.5 = 7.2 (with no haste) to 18/1 = 18 Heals (with haste soft cap for heal)
This is equivalent to 0.15*(7.2..18) = 1.08..2.7 extra heals.
Additionally we use Atonement to do additional heal when cast smite.

Also there are minor effects affecting healing:
  • Train of Thought decrease cooldown of penance as we have to cast smites
  • 5 smites instead of 4 heals gives additional 6% chance to proc Surge of Light (free flash heal)

So result is:
[TABLE]5smites|Atonement healing
vs|
no haste|4-0.15*18/2.5 = 2.92 Heals
haste soft cap for smite|4-0.15*18/1.25 = 2.16 Heals
haste soft cap for heal|5 - 0.15*18/1 = 2.3 Heals
[/TABLE]

As we can see the optimal haste is soft cap for smite.
So we need compare 5 smites with N heals, where N in range 2.16..2.92
As a result (I use spell coefficients posted above)
[TABLE]Atonement healing
Healing = 5 * (653:732 + SP * .714) * Twin Disciplines * Atonement = 5 * (653:732 + SP * .714) * 1.06 * 1.2 = 4153:4656 + SP * 4.54
Heal
Healing = N * (2614:3036 + SP * .302) * Emp Healing * Twin Disciplines = N * (2614:3036 + SP * .302) * 1.06 * 1.15 = N * (3186:3701 + SP * 0.368)
Greater Heal
Healing = N * (6969:8097 + SP * .806) * Emp Healing * Twin Disciplines = N * (8495:9870 + SP * 0.983)
[/TABLE]

Final results. Spell power needed to get advantage when using Archangel.
[TABLE]|No haste|Smite haste soft cap
Heal|1628|810
Greater Heal|13400|6380
[/TABLE]

Here I simplify. Suggesting that we use only Heal (with hard mana problem) or use only Greater Heal (with no mana problems at all).
In reality we have to combine Heals and Greater Heal. In case of using Archangel better to replase Heals with Smites and use Greater Heal as much as possible during Archangel buff.
In that case we can over heal with Archangel even with any amount of spell power.

As conclusion I can say that choose of Archangel build depends on spell power, haste and mana regen.

Mana efficiency.
When use 5 smite for Archangel we spend 75% base mana and got 15% total mana
When use 4 Heals we spend 36% base mana
When use 4 Greater Heals we spend 108% base mana
In any case Archangel saves a lot of mana. It allow to replace heals to more strong and expensive. for example Heal to Greater Heal, Greater Heal to Flash Heal.
So I believe that Archangel build provide more suitable healing for single target.
As for raid shielding style, I don't know what to say. Maybe Archangel is not so useful.

#15 Zigizi

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 01:56 PM

So I believe that Archangel build provide more suitable healing for single target.


You make it sound like the Archangel heal and the Heal spell are interchangeable. Given the random healing nature of Atonement, it still isn't a suitable build for keeping a tank topped off. I think the Atonement build will be interesting, but it will have to take on a raid-triage role, rather than the traditional role thought of as single-target.

You also mention using "Surge of Light" in an Atonement/Archangel build, but I believe that most disc Atonement/Archangel specs are going to have to spec for Twisted Faith in the Shadow tree, and won't be able to get both that and SoL.

I also think the Atonement Archangel build will take on a very strict rotation, in order to maximize healing given the effects of Glyph of Smite and Archangel.

#16 Cadfael

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 02:02 PM

Please note that since the last patch, Evangelism/Archangel is bugged on the beta (possibly PTR as well). Archangel currently gives 25% and Dark Archangel 15% mana while the tooltip (and previous to that build the implementation) is the reverse.

This leads to further ShadowPriest mana problems, but it might make (holy) Archangel "feel" better in game. As long as you remain in theorycraft, nothing changes of course, but if you are trying to verify stuff ingame, it's currently better on the holy side and worse on the shadow side than it should be (unless that is intended and pending tooltip change).
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#17 tedv

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 02:52 PM

As any spec of healing priest, I don't think it's practical to give up Inspiration. You can't afford to blow 7 points on Twisted Faith just to make your smites hit more often. If Twisted Faith were in the first tier it would be totally different.

#18 Weerel

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 03:12 PM

As any spec of healing priest, I don't think it's practical to give up Inspiration. You can't afford to blow 7 points on Twisted Faith just to make your smites hit more often. If Twisted Faith were in the first tier it would be totally different.


Healing priest don't need anything from shadow tree except maybe Darkness.
For Atonement/Archangel build priest can use Glyph of Divine Accuracy (Increases your chance to hit with your Smite by 18%) and maybe Glyph of Smite (Your Smite spell inflicts an additional 20% damage against targets afflicted by Holy Fire) to increase Atonement healing.

#19 Zigizi

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 03:20 PM

Healing priest don't need anything from shadow tree except maybe Darkness.
For Atonement/Archangel build priest can use Glyph of Divine Accuracy (Increases your chance to hit with your Smite by 18%) and maybe Glyph of Smite (Your Smite spell inflicts an additional 20% damage against targets afflicted by Holy Fire) to increase Atonement healing.


This debate is already going on in the other Cataclysm priest thread- but many other players on the PTR were recommending Twisted Faith for an atonement build, because the Glyph of Divine Accuracy does not affect Holy Fire, and because Holy Fire needs to be on the target to maximize your smites, and thereby maximize your atonement heals. You'd get to tier 2 by taking Darkness, like you said, and Veiled Shadows, give you more shadowfiend.

#20 Carnathagia

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 06:02 PM

Casting Holy Fire, you lose 75% of a Smite in the cast time. The Holy Fire dot will last ~7 seconds (dependent on haste) giving me 3.7 Smites worth of bonus. The dot would be gone before the 4th Smite hit, so practically 3 Smites get a 20% bonus while I lose 75% of 1 Smite.

My Smite Heals ~6500. Losing 75% of that to cast a Holy Fire is a loss of 4875. Gaining 20% to 3 Smites is a gain of 3900. Assuming I stacked enough haste to get 4 Smites in that window, its 5200, a 6.6% increase.

As if that weren't already a wash, I have to spec 7 points into Shadow so that Holy Fire will hit, and give up an additional major glyph slot.

I don't foresee the optimal Atonement Disc Priest using Holy Fire at all for healing purposes.
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