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Cataclysm Mage Resources


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#41 f1reburn

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 09:00 AM

Even though the mouse over still says that Springy Arachnoweave adds 27 spellpower, on the actual Cata wowhead link the spellpower part is removed. It would make sense since Blizzard doesn't like it when people use enchants from the previous expansion, and the fact that no new cloak tinkers have been released.

#42 Guest_Alinth_*

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 11:29 PM

Profession Bonuses Question

When looking at the Professions in their current form, its looking like Engineering + Tailoring is the strongest DPS combo for a Mage atm, but with mana issues, current level combat ratings, etc,

Would Professions that give bonuses of static Int increases like Enchanting, JC, LWing, be more beneficial at lower tier levels then proc based profession perks like Engi and tailoring?

I haven't Raided on the Beta at all yet, so im not sure exactly how things are feeling on there for us.

#43 Nathyiel

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 08:05 AM

Just like for race, profession's bonuses is relativly equal to +80 sp. But each will be valuate differently in regard of spec, play style or guilde's optimisation.
  • Engineering is the most useful in terme of utility.
  • Jewelcrafting and Enchanting is better for optimisation.
  • Herbalism is great for Arcane because of the haste CD.
  • Etc.


#44 Guac

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:10 PM

Regarding Tailoring vs other professions, it's important to keep in mind that the +int professions will also benefit from Blessing of Kings or MoTW in nearly every raid while Tailoring won't. With this in mind and adding Wizardry, if comparing a profession that adds 80 int and uses the 50 int cloak enchant, that profession would provide 130*1.05*1.05=143.325 int compared to the Tailoring proc. Tailoring would provide roughly 1.7 more spell power (145 vs 143.325) assuming the proc is up exactly 25% of the time, but it would lose out on 143.325/648.91=0.22% crit and 143.325*15=2149 mana.

Looking at it from that point of view, Tailoring looks like a weak profession compared the other ones, however Tailoring benefits from the proc coming early on in the once per minute that it can go off. In other words, on a 40 second fight you're pretty much assured that the proc will be up 15 of the 40 seconds or 37.5% uptime. On a 1 minute, 30 second fight you're likely to have it up for 30 of the 90 seconds or 33.3%. As the fight gets longer the actual uptime falls closer to the 25% mark but it's more likely that it'll come in just above 25% than it might fall below that mark. There is also factoring in the possibility of Lightweave being stacked with other cds, for example if happens to proc during a Bloodlust or is used with Combustion or Arcane Power it's value would be raised but if not used with those buffs it's value would be reduced.

Unless my math is off, it seems like Tailoring is slightly weaker than an 80 int profession in general, but has the potential to be stronger as fights get shorter and depending on how well it can be stacked with other cds.

#45 Nathyiel

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 11:02 PM

For a plain Int bonus, we can go for Jewelcrafting/Enchant combo for a total of +161 Int (~177 int with Wizardry and Might). It take place of no other enchant and can be very optimized. It also can be Alchemy or Inscription.

In the other hand, the proc from Tailoring/Engineering scale pretty good with burst phase, especially in the opening where all proc and CD is up at the same time. But it can be pretty chaotic in a moving fight with the loss of proc.

For me, the better solutions is to mix a plain Int bonus with a proc.

#46 Shawn

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 01:01 AM

Regarding racials:
While wowhead shows Blood Fury as a 584 spell damage increase it actually provides 173 on beta servers at the moment (at 85, both for 15 sec. duration).

#47 Nathyiel

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 09:37 AM

It have been confirmed to day, in the last patch change (built 13316) that Blood Fury will be 585 spell power.

I have try to test if Command's orc work with Water Elem. But, due to damage variation, result is not useful. If someone as way for testing it.

#48 Thazzdingo

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 03:43 PM

But it [the proc from Tailoring/Engineering] can be pretty chaotic in a moving fight with the loss of proc.


I can't understand, why procs shouldn't work well together with movement phases. Of course, there is a chance that the proc gets lost completely, but remember that a flat stat is "lost" in movement phases also - and every time. As long as the proc and the flat bonus are equal on non-movement fights, you compare loosing more sometimes against loosing less everytime.

The only difference I can see is, that most notably in the arcane spec (no dots) you won't trigger procs in movement phases, what results in more uptime while not moving => the proc is more effective.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

#49 Kastor

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 05:00 PM

The synergy with other cooldowns and procs is what making Tailoring and Engineering more desirable, in my opinion. Flat damage increases also lack the fun and the possibility at different encounters. We got an amazing new spell called Combustion, which can result in really high damage if used wisely. The same applies to procs and cooldowns that are provided by Engineering and Tailoring.

#50 Maje

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:38 PM

Seems like blizzard broke the Mirror Image threat calculations, or namely the value UnitDetailedThreatSituation returns when you have MI up.

Pre 4.0.3 it was returning (-~4m + your threat) now it just returns a flat 0. So unless they fix the bug we have no idea what our threat on a mob is while MI is up.

Also happens on beta.

#51 GODTHEREAPER

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 03:33 PM

How much mastery is needed to make FFB better then FB.

#52 lmaoskates

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 05:29 PM

FFB will in its current state never be a valid mainnuke.

#53 Silverwind

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 03:20 PM

When comparing profession bonuses, we shouldn't forget that permanent Intellect bonuses are far more valuable for Arcane then temporary procs because of way Mage Armor works. Also, the additional initial mana is another small boost. Early Simcraft output suggests that 1 Int ~= 2 SP, so it seems that Tailoring will not be a competitive option anymore.

With the above in mind, it seems that Leatherworking will be the best option for Arcane with a good margin, followed by Jewelcrafting and all the other 80 Int professions.

#54 Roywyn

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:40 PM

The Chaotic meta gem requirements will be reversed back to what they were in Wrath (Blizzard Post, thanks CedricKT). So, there is only 1 meta for DPS, 2 for healing (int/mana vs. spi/crit) and 2-3 for tanks (armour, magic, block) and some for PvP. Oh, well, it felt nice to have a choice between 2 meta, even if it took some effort to figure out which setup was better.

Perhaps one day there will we another meta gem for DPSers, perhaps an effect like the Mystic meta like in BC, just a bit more balance and less broken. When 2/3 of the raid use 1 meta and spam rubies, the whole system feel a bit bland and hollow.
Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks....p2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.c...ki/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks....0-post3191.html

And doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does since 3.1.

#55 Silverwind

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 11:11 PM

So, there is only 1 meta for DPS

I wouldn't rule out the Ember Shadowspirit Diamond for Arcane yet (until more theorycrafting is done). With Crit as our weakest stat and with the low crit rates in the first gear tiers, I don't see it adding a whole lot to our damage output.

#56 Venthos

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 07:49 AM

What would it take for the other metas to come close? Ember could probably be viable for Arcane, but reduced threat and minor run speed just don't cut it for any spec. Minor run speed isn't too bad, but most of the time the run speed boots are taken anyway. Reduced threat, though? It seems like it's one of those traps they're trying to cut out of the game, and even if someone was bad at watching their threat, it wouldn't likely be taken anyway.

Adding at least one more viable meta choice would make it more interesting, at least.

As an aside, what would the impact have been if the requirements wanted more yellows than reds, rather than more blues than reds? Would it not have changed enough, or would the difference between having straight int/ a combination of int and secondary stats even it out?

#57 Roywyn

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:17 AM

What would it take for the other metas to come close?

As an aside, what would the impact have been if the requirements wanted more yellows than reds, rather than more blues than reds?

None of the other meta gems effect offer a DPS increase at the moment. That would have to change. CSD is a 1.5% increase for Arcane, 2% or more for Fire/Frost. Ember for Arcane? Mana is too weak as a resource. Add more mana? You'd break healing mechanics. Threat? You already do 2% less threat by not taking this meta.* Haste proc? The TBC Mystic meta (half cast time procs)?

"More yellow than red" would make that whole thing worse before Heroic T11 gear. It still means "more Ratings than intellect" and in addition will make gemming blue (hit) stats a punishment. So you'd have to hit cap from gear/reforging alone, good luck with that. It's likely possible in full heroic T11, but you can't easiyl juggle some hit ratign with gems any more. Blue and yellow sockets are fungible otherwise due to reforging.

* I'm aware that this is a fallacy.

[Edit]: I had usually taken spell base damage into account, it's just not very at 85 compared to your common spell power. Also, preliminary Simcraft numbers by Lhivera are up at http://elitistjerks....13/#post1807030
Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks....p2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.c...ki/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks....0-post3191.html

And doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does since 3.1.

#58 Brainpower

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 05:48 PM

When calculating the % increase worth of intellect (102 int =1% at 10200 int), I think that you forgot to take the spell's base damage in consideration. Spellpower would scale linear (2 times more sp= twice the damage) if the base damage of a spell was 0 but this isn't the case. When you calculate it, you should add the coefficient of the spell multiplied by it's base damage to your spellpower to have a more appropriate value of the % of increase 102 int actually gives.

#59 Valaran

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 03:36 PM

Would there be any interest in a pre-raid preparation heroics loot list? I just finish making one for my guild, and if it's not already done somewhere else on this site (I mostly lurk mage forums) then I will gladly copy / reformat it for EJ use. Basically it's: every 346 or non-raid 359 item, sorted by item slot, with a summary listing the most desired heroic dungeons (by number of DPS caster drops per). I realize some of the rep and craftable items are already listed in this thread but I have taken further steps by including all heroic drops.

If there's no need, I will gladly request deletion of this post.

Below is a preview; I'm looking up how to fix the errant ilvls right now.

EDIT: After quite a bit of searching about, I just can't find a fix for the tooltips showing the 333 version, since they have the same names. Someone please bonk me over the head here, if you know the answer.

EDIT 2: After posting, I received several PM's asking for the full version and am posting it here. SOME item links don't have the accurate ilvl; please just click on them to see the correct version on Wowhead until I've figured it out.

EDIT 3: I somehow forgot feet. Fixed.

ITEMS PER HEROIC DUNGEON

7 - Halls of Origination
6 - Deadmines
5 - Throne of the Tides, Blackrock Caverns, Lost City of the Tol'vir
4 - Shadowfang Keep, Grim Batol, Stonecore
3 - Vortex Pinnacle

ITEMS PER REPUTATION

2 - Earthen Ring, Hellscream's Reach, Therazane, Dragonmaw Clan, Ramkahen
1 - Guardians of Hyjal

HEAD

359 - 525 Engineering
346 - Hit/Crit - 2,200 Justice Points
346 - Hit/Mastery - Halls of Origination
346 - Crit/Haste - Grim Batol
346 - Crit/Mastery - Shadowfang Keep
ENC - Guardians of Hyjal (Revered)

NECK

359 - Crit/Mastery - Dragonmaw Clan (Exalted)
346 - Haste/Mastery - 525 Jewelcrafting (BOE)
346 - Hit/Mastery - 1,250 Justice Points
346 - Hit/Crit - Halls of Origination
346 - Crit/Haste - Lost City of the Tol'vir
346 - Haste/Mastery - Throne of the Tides
346 - Crit/Mastery - Shadowfang Keep

SHOULDERS

346 - Crit/Mastery - 1,650 Justice Points
346 - Hit/Mastery - Shadowfang Keep
346 - Crit/Haste - Lost City of the Tol'vir
ENC - Therazane (Exalted)
ENC - Therazane (Honored)

BACK

346 - Crit/Haste - Earthen Ring (Revered)
346 - Hit/Crit - Vortex Pinnacle
346 - Haste/Mastery - Throne of the Tides

CHEST

346 - Hit/Crit - Ramkahen (Revered)
346 - Haste/Mastery - 2,200 Justice Points
346 - Crit/Mastery - Deadmines
346 - Hit/Mastery - Blackrock Caverns
346 - Crit/Mastery - Shadowfang Keep
346 - Crit/Haste - Halls of Origination

WRISTS

346 - Crit/Mastery - Deadmines
346 - Hit/Crit - Lost City of the Tol'vir

HANDS

359 - Haste/Mastery - Earthen Ring (Exalted)
346 - Haste/Mastery - 1,650 Justice Points
346 - Hit/Crit - Throne of the Tides

WAIST

359 - Hit/Mastery - 525 Tailoring (BOE)
346 - Crit/Mastery - 1,650 Justice Points
346 - Hit/Mastery - Vortex Pinnacle
346 - Crit/Haste - Blackrock Caverns
346 - Crit/Haste - UNKNOWN, possibly Deadmines

LEGS

359 - Crit/Haste - 525 Tailoring (BOE)
359 - Crit/Mastery - 525 Tailoring (BOE)
346 - Crit/Haste - 2,200 Justice Points
346 - Crit/Mastery - Halls of Origination

FEET

359 - Hit/Haste - Ramkahen (Exalted)
346 - Hit/Mastery - Stonecore
346 - Crit/Haste - Unknown

FINGERS

359 - Haste/Mastery - Archaeology
359 - Hit/Crit - BOE World Drop
346 - Crit/Mastery - 525 Jewelcrafting (BOE)
346 - Hit/Mastery - Dragonmaw Clan (Revered)
346 - Crit/Haste - Therazane (Revered)
346 - Crit/Haste - Grim Batol
346 - Hit/Mastery - Throne of the Tides
346 - Hit/Crit - Halls of Origination
346 - Hit/Mastery - Deadmines
346 - Crit/Haste - Stonecore
346 - Crit/Mastery - Lost City of the Tol'vir

TRINKETS

359 - 525 Inscription (BOE)
359 - Hellscream's Reach (Exalted)
359 - Archaeology
346 - 475 Jewelcrafting (BOP)
346 - Halls of Origination
346 - Grim Batol
346 - Lost City of the Tol'vir
346 - The Stonecore
346 - Blackrock Caverns

STAFF

359 - Crit/Haste - Archaeology
346 - Haste/Mastery - Hellscream's Reach (Revered)
346 - Hit/Haste - Thone of the Tides
346 - Crit/Mastery - Deadmines
346 - Crit/Mastery - Grim Batol

MAIN HAND

346 - Hit/Crit - 520 Blacksmithing (BOE)
346 - Hit/Mastery - Julak-Doom (world boss, Twilight Highlands)
346 - Hit/Crit - Grim Batol
346 - Crit/Haste - Halls of Origination
346 - Crit/Haste - Vortex Pinnacle

OFF HAND

346 - Hit/Mastery - 520 Inscription (BOE)
346 - Hit/Haste - 950 Justice Points
346 - Hit/Crit - Blackrock Caverns

RANGED

346 - Hit/Mastery - Blackrock Caverns
346 - Crit/Mastery - Deadmines
346 - Crit/Haste - Stonecore

#60 Wilderness81

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:06 PM

Thank you Valaran, that looks like a pretty good guide towards gearing up our mages as we get ready to raid. I did have 1 question regarding the trinkets - why is on top? It looks like several other trinkets would be more valuable.




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