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The Retribution Concordance - 4.0.1


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#1 Exemplar

Exemplar

    The One-Eyed Man

  • • Guide Author
  • 1,803 posts

Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:46 PM

Retribution Concordance (RetCon) 11/30| 4.0.1

This original post is a Work In Progress. Expect heavy changes over the next several months as we roll into the Cataclysm itself. That said, it aims for a high degree of accuracy at any given time. "Game experience may change during online play." Be aware that most links use cata.wowhead.com - some mouseovers may not show active info until Cata release.

Please Do Not Ask for the following
  • BiS item or item comparison. Once tools are available, you can figure this out yourself. People working on creating these tools should be spending their time on crafting the tool, not answering individual questions.
  • True Stat Weights. We'll give you values once things settle down.
We are in a time of flux. Base damage and coefficients are changing frequently on abilities. This causes a large impact on everything involving our class. Until these are accurate, tools cannot be finished. GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out. Getting advice from a bad tool won't help anyone.

Do not expect answers to these questions.
 1[/hr]

Welcome to the Retribution Concordance (RetCon) for 4.0.1. This information is thanks to the frequent posters on these boards, who are too numerous to name. All credit is due to those who have spent hours researching and testing - any errors in typing or comprehension are mine. Please PM me for suggestions, typo reports, or other corrections.
=Cataclysm/4.0.1 Changes=
  • All DoT effects are affected by haste. Yes, this means the SoT DoT, too.
  • Plate Specialization added; Increases your primary attribute (Str) by 5% while wearing Plate in all armor slots.
  • Ability queuing based on your latency now extends beyond actions with a cast time and to instants.
  • There is no longer a small amount of unavoidable partial resists on boss level mobs.
  • Librams no longer provide bonus to specific spells - they are stat items with a socket. New Relics will be used interchangeably between Death Knights, Druids, Paladins, and Shaman. There will not be Libram usable only by Paladin.

=Specs=
There is some debate between 5/0/(30+1) and 3/2/(30+1) as the cookie-cutter L80 build. Once modeling tools improve accuracy we'll determine a final winner. As of this post my spreadsheet recommends 3/2/31.

This expands to 7/2/(30+1) + 1 at Level 85.

You have one optional point that must be used in the Retribution tree, in order to reach Zealotry. In the demo above this was placed into Eye for an Eye as it may possibly at times provide some slim PvE DPS. Other talents are utility, such as Guardian's Favor. There is no wrong choice for this point.

The final optional point may be placed in any tree. I personally feel Divinity is never a bad choice. Alternately, this talent point could be used to gain the second tier of a Ret talent you selected for the first optional point.

Note: Eye for an Eye has been proven to proc from direct magic damage and some untargeted spells. Examples are Festergut's spore damage, as well as Blast Nova from Onyx Flamecallers on the General Zarithrian fight. Passive auras, such as Blood Queen Lana'thel's, are not eligible for reflection.

A reasonable number of fights have damage which can reflect. While this is not a large volume of damage, it is still an overall DPS increase to talent EfoaE. The overall impact is minor - increased utility via another talent is a perfectly valid choice.

Selfless Healer

Selfless healer is universally a loss of DPS. The bonus % will partially mitigate the loss, but it can never be used for an overall gain of total DPS. A single TV is worth more total damage than a small boost to other attacks for a short time period.
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=Glyphs=
Prime


Prime Glyphs all directly impact DPS. Under Expertise cap the Glyph of SoT appears to be the greatest gain - most likely it will follow the same rules as Wrath, even if several of the 10 are beyond the cap, it beats the other Glyphs.
Initial review in my spreadsheet (single data point) shows the best trio appears to be: CS, SoT, and TV.

If you are over the Expertise cap, it appears useful to reforge Expertise off of gear in order to utilize the GoSoT - see reforging below.

Note: Glyph of Templar's Verdict only provides ~11.5% increase, not 15% increase. This is because it is additive with Crusade (1.3 + 1.15 = 1.45) not multiplicative (1.3 * 1.15 = 1.495). It is still our 2nd best Glyph.

Major


No Major Glyph directly increases DPS. Several Major Glyphs impact mana usage. Manipulation of this mana reduction could possibly provide further Consecration usage or make up for loss of JotW from reduced Judgement usage. Ascetic Crusader appears the largest gain in this regard. All others are optional.

With HoW buffed it is now used under AW. This could cause a mana drain. Glyph of HoW would prevent any issues and could be considered useful in the same fashion as Ascetic Crusader.

Minor


Minors don’t impact DPS or mid-fight mana usage. Pick what you like to reduce the costs of your seals and buffing.
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=Rotation=
Single Target

The Ret paladin "rotation" shares something with Wrath - it is priority based. The priority for single-target is as follows:
Level 80: HoW > TV > CS > Exo > J > HW > Cons
Level 85: Inq > HoW > Exo > TV > CS > J > HW > Cons

It is possible we will modify this further to: Inq > HoW > Exo > 3 HP TV > CS > HoL TV at 1 or 2 HP > J > HW > Cons. This may have less delays in CS, thus more total CS in a fight. The greater CS usage would provide additional HP, thus additional TV. Trading these CS and TV for fillers should be a DPS gain. However, if some HoL are lost due to delays from higher priority attacks, it could be a net DPS loss. Further modeling is necessary before this determination can be made.

Inq increases Holy Damage when it is up. Initial modeling shows refresh up to 6 seconds before it ends. Averaging a gain of 3 HP within 8 seconds should be fairly typical. Thus if you use a TV right at 6 seconds, you typically can refresh no later than 2 seconds after Inq expires.

In melee range:
Never, ever cast Exo - only use Exo when it is instant from an AoW proc. If AoW has not procced, then Exo has a cast time and mana cost. Remember during cast you stop all autoattacks.

If out of melee range (phase transition/funny-business):
Judge if you can. Without AoW Exo drops below Judge. If Judge is on CD, spam cast Exo.

Multiple Target

The AoE rotation is rather similar to single-target, simply replace Crusader Strike with Divine Storm. The rest of the priority stays the same. With Holy Wrath fixed to meteor properly, at 3 targets you should begin using Consecration over HW.

Redcape's modeling shows you should only swap to AoE rotation at 5 or more targets.

Zealotry

Zealotry provides a special circumstance. During Zealotry all CS earn 3 HP. Your rotation will become CS, TV, or should HoL proc, CS, TV, TV.
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=Stats and Gearing=
Stat Weights


Level 85 Stat Weights - Under Hit/Exp Cap

Section removed. Frequent changes to coefficients and base damage of abilities make this obsolete every time they occur. It will be updated once a more stable environment presents itself.

Level 80 Stat Weights

Just wait for Cata and use the L85 Stat Weights at that time.

Generic 80 Suggestion

At 80 it is recommended to Hit Cap, then Expertise Cap, then aim for the Haste soft cap. Haste beyond this soft cap will only affect autoattack and becomes less valuable than Crit.

Thus Hit > Exp > Str > Haste/Crit > Mastery under hit/exp cap.
Str > Haste/Crit > Mastery above hit/exp cap.

Reforging

Reforging allows you to exchange 40% of a combat rating already on an item and converts it into a combat rating not already on an item. Example: If an item has Crit, you cannot add more Crit, if it has no Crit then you could reforge 40% of another rating (Expertise, Haste, Hit, or Mastery) into Crit. An item with 100 Hit and no Crit could be reforged to 60 Hit and 40 Crit.

Since we cannot reforge any stat into Str, then we focus on our most important stats.

These are your goals, in order.
Hit cap. Under hit cap, reforge the worst* stat into hit.
Expertise cap. If hit capped and under expertise cap, reforge your "worst" stat into expertise.
Next best stat. If you are now hit and expertise capped and you have gear that has not been reforged, aim for the next best stat.

* - Use the stat weights above to determine which stats to reforge.

*Secondary stats mean ratings (and Spirit, not that we care about that).

Set Bonuses

  • [T11 2P] Increases the damage done by your Templar's Verdict by 10%.
  • [T11 4P] Your Inquisition ability's duration is calculated as if you had one additional Holy Power.

Templar's Verdict is going to be close to 30% of our total DPS. Thus a 10% gain is approximately a 3% overall DPS boost.
Inquisition lasting an additional 10 seconds provides more Holy Power for TV usage. This will require modeling and testing to see how useful it proves.

Theory: If Tier item budget is equal to other items of the same iLevel, then the free bonuses should always make 4 piece worthwhile - issues with itemization can be addressed via reforging. If Tier items lose budget to account for bonuses, then bonuses must be worthwhile to make up for lost stats.

=Gemming and Enchanting=
Gemming

Only one gem matters - Bold Inferno Ruby. Str is so far superior to every other stat, that you do not even want to hit or expertise cap through gemming. Gem strictly for Str, ignoring socket bonuses. The only caveat is for Meta-Gem activation.

At L80 it currently appears worthwhile to use a single Orange Gem (Str/Haste up to your softcap, Str/Crit thereafter) for a +4 Str bonus. It may be possible to use a single Purple (Str/Hit) for a +4 bonus if you can reforge your gear to turn this excess hit into Crit/Haste without dropping below Hitcap.

Meta-Gems

Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond is the only melee DPS gem. It requires more Blue gems than Yellow gems. This is as simple as Wrath meta requirements, as our only desire is to gem Str. Use a single Blue slot on an Etched Demonseye. Ideally use this to meet a +Str socket bonus on an item. If this places you over the hit cap, attempt to reforge the excess hit to a more useful stat.

Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond is dead weight, as PoJ provides a greater run speed boost and Mastery is not one of our better stats.

Enchants

[TABLE="head"]Slot|Enchant|Description
Head|60 Str / 30 Mastery|Wildhammer/Dragonmaw Rep Arcanum
Cloak|65 Crit|Only DPS increasing selection.
Shoulder|50 Str/25 Crit|Therazane rep. Inscriptionist-only enchant grants 130 Str.
Chest|20 Stats|Only DPS increasing selection.
Bracers | 65 Crit, 65 Haste|These have more rating than the Expertise and Hit options. Use these under caps and reforge for Hit/Exp as needed. Leatherworker-only enchant is 130 Str - possibly largest profession damage boost.
Gloves|50 Str|Our best stat, a no brainer.
Belt|Free Socket|Free socket is free.
Legs|190 AP / 55 Crit|Only DPS increasing selection.
Feet|50 Mastery or 50 Hit|PoJ makes runspeed enchants moot. Depending on stat weighting it may be better to get Hit and reforge if over cap due to gear.
Weapon|Landslide, Hurricane, or Avalanche|Best choice is unknown until we have more hard data, such as proc rates (PPM vs ICD), etc.[/TABLE]
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=Consumables=
Flask: Flask of Titanic Strength - Item - World of Warcraft of Titanic Strength[/url hands down defeats elixirs. Cauldrons (guild or otherwise) should provide this flask or a stat equivalent with a different name.
Potion: Golemblood Potion being pure Str will be far and away better than any other possible potion. As always, use under AW (and Heroism if possible)
Food: Seafood Magnifique Feast should provide 90 Str, so it will be perfectly equivalent to the single person buff from Beer-Basted Crocolisk.
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=Cooldowns=
Avenging Wrath
Avenging Wrath increases all damage by 20% while in effect. Fully talented this lasts 20 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown, thus providing a 16.6% effective up-time. While the most impact is granted during Heroism as the increased autoattack rate and decreased CS CD allow more (or more superior) attacks, losing an entire Avenging Wrath during a fight because you delayed for Heroism is a net loss.

During AW, even if the target's health is above 20%, you can use HoW. Your priority does not change (TV and CS > HoW), but make sure to use those HoW. Do not use AW during Zealotry as you would be unable to use the HoW without losing CS or TV.

Reverted - corrections to spreadsheet show AW separate from Zeal about 1% better DPS. 11/10 update, it's about 0.4% DPS better.

Zealotry
Zealotry permits Crusader Strike to grant 3 HP per attack for 20 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown. This shortcuts the rotation to CS, TV, repeat. Only delay a CS if you get a free TV from HoL (CS, TV, TV). With changes to HoW damage, it is best to use Zealotry separate from AW.
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=Mechanics=
  • Partial resists no longer occur.
  • Glancing blows (only on mobs 3+ levels higher than you, such as Skull bosses) happen 24% of the time on auto-attacks. A glancing blow deals 75% damage and cannot crit.
  • Boss level mobs have melee crit suppression of 4.8% and spell crit suppression of ~2.1%. This means you will crit less frequently than the % displayed on your character screen.
  • Autoattack Crit Cap is 71.2% (100% - 24% glancing - 4.8% suppression). Crit above this level would not generate more crits.
  • Ability Crit Cap is either 95.2% (100% - 4.8% suppression) or possibly 100% (104.8% - 4.8% suppression). Either is beyond possibility for Ret Paladin gear.
  • At level 85, you need 8% Hit to be melee capped. This is 960 hit rating (840 rating as Draenei). This affects all of your melee attacks, preventing them from missing. Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Judgement, and Hammer of Wrath all use the melee hit cap.
  • At level 85, you need 17% Hit to be spell capped. We gain 6% spellhit free with Sheath of Light. This means you need 11%, or 1128 hit rating (1025 rating as a Draenei) to cap. The only abilities that are affected by this are Exorcism, Holy Wrath, and Consecration.
  • At level 85, you need 781 expertise rating (26 expertise) to prevent all boss dodge. With GoSoT you need 481 rating (16 expertise) to prevent boss dodge. Humans and Dwarves have free expertise (from racials) when wielding specific types of weapons. When attacking from behind only autoattacks, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, and Hammer of Wrath can be dodged. Judgement and spell attacks cannot be dodged. If attacking from in front, the boss may still parry - never stand in front of the boss.
  • Level 80 hit cap is 246 (215 for Draenei). Spellhit Cap is 289 (263 for Draenei). Expertise Cap is 200 before racials (123 with GoSoT). (Reference) At L80 you only need 22.37 Expertise (172 Rating) to remove all Dodge. With GoSoT this should be 95 rating (proven by kilroggphara via 9k autoattacks).
  • Autoattacks, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, and Judgement are all considered melee attacks, using Melee Hit and Crit %. Other than Judgement they are susceptible to parry and dodge. Judgement cannot be dodged, parried, or blocked, though it can miss.
  • Hammer of Wrath is ranged Holy damage, but behaves like many Hunter attacks in that it uses Melee Hit and Crit %. It can be deflected (possibly a parry) from the front. It is possible it cannot be dodged, with low cast quantity and most players hit capped there is insufficient data to prove either way.
  • Exorcism, Holy Wrath, and Consecration are spell attacks, using the Spell Hit and Crit %. They cannot be dodged or parried.
  • All Ratings function at a level finer than represented by the paper doll. For example, 44 Mastery would display as 0 Mastery on the paper doll, however you do gain the benefits - it would provide ~0.95% increased HoL procs. This applies equally to Hit, Crit, Expertise, Haste, and Mastery.
  • Censure (the DoT from SoT), unlike DoTs of all other classes, is not currently updating every tick with Haste. Every time a DoT ticks, it should update the time to next tick based on your current Haste effects. Censure is retaining the time per tick determined when the first stack is applied. Thus if you can begin Censure with higher haste (such as pre-pot before boss engage) and keep Censure from ever falling off, your Censure will tick at this accellerated rate for the entire battle.
  • Trying to use a high Haste weapon or swapping seals to put a first application of Censure on during Heroism are ineffective in increasing DPS due to lost GCD and various effects. Search the thread for the napkin math.

Haste and the Soft Cap

The ultimate nirvana of Crusader Strike is to reduce the GCD to 3 seconds. This permits you to use CS, a single filler, then another CS with no wasted time.

In a perfect world at L80 it takes around 1015 Haste (with Wrath of Air and JotP) to reduce CS to a 3 second CD. However, with latency a factor, on live the best you can do is cast CS, press an ability during GCD, new GCD begins as soon as first completed. This means the minimum time between two CS is your CS cooldown - your latency. You would need to push the cooldown below 3 seconds so the cooldown would end in sufficient time for you to send a new CS command to the server and it be accepted precisely 3 seconds after the first occurred.

This value is your Soft Cap. Beyond this point haste is unable to accelerate your CS usage (but still increases Autoattacks). At Level 80, up to this soft cap it appears that Haste is superior to Crit. Beyond your soft cap the value of Haste drops below Crit.

Since you cannot queue during non-GCD CD periods, you are stuck with this single-times-latency issue in a CS+filler sequence. When the filler completes you must wait for CS to end its CD, then press the key and wait for latency. If you push CS CD below 3 seconds then you will be able to queue during the second ability's GCD.

Note: Spells have a special rule with the GCD. The spell GCD is reduced by haste (to a minimum of 1 second). If you manage to acquire 1015 Haste your spell GCD becomes 1 second. Thus even with zero latency you would have: CS, Exo, 0.5 seconds empty time, CS. Remember that Exo, HW, Cons, and DP are spells. Judge, TV, DS, and HoW are not and use the full 1.5 GCD every time.

Second Note: Latency displayed in-game is an average. You could be lower than this value the majority of the time with intermittent spikes producing a higher average. Thus your CS would not be soft capped the majority of the time, then suddenly beyond your soft cap when that odd lag spike occurs.

It is unlikely that even in end-tier Cataclysm gear that it will be possible to fully cap your CS CD. Unless several mechanics severely change, do not attempt to meet the cap via Gemming. Strength is more than twice as advantageous as Haste. Any gems which are Haste rather than Str are overall detrimental to your total DPS.

Attacks: Base damage and Coefficients at L80

Autoattack
((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage

Crusader Strike
(((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 115%

Templar's Verdict
(((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 300%

Seal of Righteousness
Seal: Weaponspeed + 1.1% AP + 2.2% SP. Cannot crit.
Judgement: 1 + 20% AP + 32% SP.

Seal of Truth
Seal: (((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 21%
Censure: (3.3% AP + 1.7% SP) per stack. At 5 stacks (16.5% AP + 8.5% SP). Ticks every 3 seconds, reduced by haste. This does not calculate haste "on the fly" as DoTs of all other classes, it preserves the haste present when first applied.
Judgement: (1 + 18% AP + 29% SP) * (100% + (10% * Censure Stacks)). At 5 stacks this is (1.5 + 27.345% AP + 42.915% SP).

Exorcism
Base Damage: 1988 to 2218
Coefficient: 22.4% of the higher of AP or SP

Holy Wrath
Base Damage: 2419
Coefficient: 64.5% SP

Calculated as: 2419 + .645 SP / # targets

Hammer of Wrath
Base Damage: 4384 to 4844
Coefficient: 50% AP + 15% SP

Consecration
Base damage: 720
Coefficient: 26% AP + 26% SP

Calculated as: (720 + 26% AP + 26% SP) / 10. Dealt every second for 10 seconds (12 seconds with Glyph).

Attacks: Base damage and Coefficients at L85

Autoattack
((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage

Crusader Strike
(((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 115%

Templar's Verdict
(((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 235%

Seal of Righteousness
Seal: Weaponspeed + 1.1% AP + 2.2% SP. Cannot crit.
Judgement: 1 + 20% AP + 32% SP.

Seal of Truth
Seal: (((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 15%
Censure: (1.92% AP + 1% SP) per stack. At 5 stacks (9.6% AP + 5% SP). Ticks every 3 seconds, reduced by haste. This does not calculate haste "on the fly" as DoTs of all other classes, it preserves the haste present when first applied.
Judgement: (1 + 14.21% AP + 22.29% SP) * (100% + (10% * Censure Stacks)). At 5 stacks this is (1.5 + 21.315% AP + 33.435% SP).

Exorcism
Base Damage: average 2741
Coefficient: 34% of the higher of AP or SP

Holy Wrath
Base Damage: 2402
Coefficient: 61% SP

Calculated as: (2402 + 61% SP) / # targets

Hammer of Wrath
Base Damage: average 4015
Coefficient: 50% AP + 15% SP

Consecration
Base damage: 810
Coefficient: 26% AP + 26% SP

Calculated as: (810+ 26% AP + 26% SP) / 10. Dealt every second for 10 seconds (12 seconds with Glyph).

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=Races=
Alliance

When it comes to racials that impact PvE damage, the Alliance is superior.

Draenei
Heroic Presence now grants only the Draenei the +1% hit. Not a bad bonus, as it will allow additional reforging of stats and more possible gear combinations. A free HoT to marginally increase survivability is of minor PvE or PvP use.

Human
If weaponry is no longer consistently axes (possible with reforging allowing more configuration of badly itemized weaponry), then a human could net 3 free Expertise via Mace or Sword specialization. The free CC break can provide a few additional seconds of DPS (or move to survival spot) in PvE, and in PvP allows replacement of PvP trinket with something providing more raw Resilience or DPS stats.

Dwarf
Like humans, Dwarves only benefit if the best weapon available is a Mace, which would grant 5 expertise. Again, reforging may allow an inferior itemized mace to surpass another weapon type via this bonus. Stoneform which can clear poison/disease/bleed effects on a 2 minute cooldown could be a minorly useful PvP ability.

Horde

Horde paladin racials have little to no impact outside of PvP purposes.

Blood Elf
A silence effect and some extra mana regen. The addition of Rebuke to talents makes the silence rather unimportant. Mana should be a non-issue, the additional gain is unimportant. Possibly of PvP utility during Rebuke cooldown or in order to skip Rebuke for a more PvP-related talent.

Tauren
A 2 second AoE stun and higher base health. Possibly useful in PvP, but not for PvE.
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=Professions=
Alchemy

Mixology adds an additional 80 Str to Flask of Titanic Strength. Also provides the benefit of extended flask duration. Raw stats are tied with Blacksmithing, Enchanting, and Inscription, but the extended duration may be considered an extra edge. However, extended duration is only on flasks you can create. If your guild uses purchasable cauldrons from the guild perks, those may not provide extended duration. Time will tell.

Blacksmithing

Socket Bracer and Socket Gloves, allow two additional gems. Naturally you want to use Bold Inferno Ruby once available. Tied with Alchemy, Enchanting, and Inscription. Possibly inferior until Epic gems are available. Rare gems would provide less Str.

Enchanting

Enchant Ring - Strength provides 40 Str. Two rings, total of 80 Str. Tied with Blacksmithing, Alchemy, and Inscription.

Engineering

Reinforced Bio-Optic Killshades may be for tanks and DPS. Sockets for Quick Cogwheel and Smooth Cogwheel could be very advantageous.
Tazik Shocker - Rocket Glove Cataclysm equivalent.
Other items/enhancements not yet implemented. It is likely that Engineering will not have a Haste benefit (barring Cogwheel) as Herbalism now has this bonus.

Herbalism

Lifeblood provides 480 haste for 20 seconds, with a 2 minute cooldown. This is average 80 haste or 0.62% at L85. There is the strong chance this haste boost could push your CS CD below 3 seconds, and only impact autoattacks. You likely would not want to use this under Heroism as it would exacerbate CS cooldown issues.

Inscription

Lionsmane Inscriptionprovides 130 Str and 25 Crit. This is 80 strength more than the Greater Inscription of Jagged Stone rep reward. Tied with Blacksmithing, Alchemy, and Enchanting.

Jewelcrafting

Bold Chimera’s Eye grant 27 Str over the regular Epic Bold. Multiply by three for 81 Str bonus. Slightly superior to Blacksmithing, Enchanting, Alchemy, or Inscription. Possibly surpassed by Leatherworking.

Leatherworking

Draconic Embossment - Strength provides 130 Strength to Bracers. This far surpasses the standard bracer enchants of 65 crit or haste. If Strength is truly around 3 times as good as Crit or Haste, this may be superior to all other bonuses.

Mining

Toughness, the self-only perk of Mining, provides 120 stamina and thus absolutely zero damage. No DPS increase, marginal survivability increase.

Skinning

Master of Anatomy provides 80 Crit rating. This is 0.44% at L85.

Tailoring

Swordguard Embroidery, grants 800 AP for 15 seconds, most likely with a 45 second ICD. This would be an average 267 AP, compared to 176 AP (80 Str * 1.05 Plate Specialization * 1.05 Kings * 2 AP per Str) from other professions. However, this replaces the normal cloak enchant. 90 AP may or may not be greater than 65 Crit to cloak. Preliminary math with current stat rankings show it is superior. This could change if/when stat weights change.
 1[/hr]

=Macros and Mods=
Macros

Avenging Wrath
#showtooltip
/cast Avenging Wrath
/cast Hammer of Wrath
/startattack

Zealotry
#showtooltip
/cast Zealotry
/cast Templar's Verdict
/startattack

Holy Wrath and Consecration
#showtooltip
/castsequence [mod:alt] reset=14 Holy Wrath, Consecration
/startattack

You should never drop Consecration if HW is off cooldown. By combining to one button you can save some bar space. Via alt-button you could still cast Consecration, if desired, or if HW is in the last second of CD and you need to juice a few more precious DPS.

Attack Consolidation macro
#showtooltip
/cast [nomodifier] Templar's Verdict; /cast [modifier:shift] Inquisition

Allows you to collapse your HP abilities to a single button.

Mods

Mods are purely optional. Some players run with none, some with dozens. This section is intentionally light, focusing on two that are of great assistance with Ret specific tasks, namely priority and timing.

CLCRet/CLCInfo will help you properly follow your priority setup and track procs or temporary buffs.

OmniCC is an addon that adds text to items/spells/abilities that are on cooldown to indicate when they'll be ready for use. It integrates nicely with CLCInfo.

Other recommended mods are a threat meter, unit frames, and bar mods - there are many options from which to select. Pulling threat leads to death and zero DPS. Having units and bars in efficient locations reduces eye movement and chance you are looking at the wrong place on your screen at the wrong time - this increases DPS and reduces chance of death.

The author strongly recommends personalization of the UI to fit your needs and playstyle. Designing your own UI rather than using the default or a pre-packaged UI is the difference between a meal at a 3-star Michelin ranked restaurant and McDonalds.
 1[/hr]

=Frequently Asked Questions=
Q: What seal for PvE?
A: There are now only two PvE seals. Seal of Truth provides superior single-target DPS, while Seal of Righteousness provides superior multi-target DPS (due to the Seals of Command talent providing cleave).

Q: What seal for PvP?
A: There are three possibilities for PvP: Seal of Truth, Seal of Righteousness, and Seal of Justice. SoT requires stacking on a single target and would be inferior for target swaps or long time off target. SoR provides instant damage and cleave to hit multiple targets. SoJ provides a runspeed debuff, preventing your target from moving faster than 100% speed (i.e. boot enchants, talents, sprint will not boost speed) for 5 seconds after a strike. Which is superior is likely a personal choice depending on team composition, buffs, debuffs, and similar factors.

Q: What does weapon speed do to us? Do we want slow or fast?
A: All things being equal (Str and iLevel, therefore average DPS), we generally still want slow. Seals and Judgement are not normalized to weapon damage, thus the higher damage range on slow weapons is superior.

Q: What weapon enchant?
A: Scroll up to the enchant section - Landslide, Hurricane, and Avalanche info still to come.

Q: Should I use a fast 1h weapon to stack SoT quicker?
A: No. Switching weapons is a DPS loss. The majority of our damage is physical (Auotattack, CS and TV). The lost damage during the ramp up period is greater than the boost to JoT and SoT DoT ticks.

Q: Should I swap librams?
A: Librams moving from spell specific bonuses to stat sticks with a socket has finally put the stake in this question. Grab the highest iLvl libram for Ret (hint, it has Str on it).

Q: Should I grab this leather/mail piece of gear?
A: No. Leather and Mail items no longer have Attack Power as a separate stat. Classes naturally wearing those armour types gain 2 AP per Agility. The lack of Attack Power vs. a Plate item with Str means the Leather and Mail will always be inferior. Additionally, if you wear all Plate you get the Retribution Plate Specialization bonus of +5% Str.

Q: Should I take a higher DPS weapon with Agi?
A: No. An Agi weapon of equivalent iLevel should never be as good as the Str weapon due to the same lack of AP issue..

Q: Do you have a Best In Slot gear list?
A: No. This thread will not cover an overall BiS discussion, though may theorycraft specifics of trinket mechanics and possibly identify a specific BiS item. With gemming and reforging making gear highly configurable, a single BiS is far more fluid. Check the rest of the Paladin forum, there may be a BiS themed thread.
 1[/hr]

=Valuable Resources=
The following tools can all be used for stat and gear comparisons, recommendations of upgraded items, and comparing different attack priorities.

Redcape's Calculator is an Excel Spreadsheet (requires macros). Now Level 85 and Cataclysm Compliant!

My Paladin Cataclysm Spreadsheet (also available here) is an Excel Spreadsheet (requires macros). Not yet available for patch 4.x.

Rawr is a program which can be downloaded and installed. Rawr3 is/will-be usable within a browser and is Mac Compatible. Not yet available for patch 4.x.

There are no guarantees that any of the above will function for all users.
 1[/hr]

=Glossary=
[TABLE="head"]Abbreviation | Meaning
AGI|Agility (stat)
AoE|Area of Effect
AoW|Art of War (talent)
AP|Attack Power
Arbiter|Arbiter of the Light (talent)
AW|Avenging Wrath (ability)
BoM|Blessing of Might (ability)
BoK|Blessing of Kings (ability)
CD|Cool Down
Cons|Consecration (ability)
CS|Crusader Strike (ability)
CRIT|Critical Strike (rating or percent)
DoT|Damage over Time
DivPurp|Divine Purpose (talent)
DP|Divine Plea (ability)
DS|Divine Storm (talent/ability)
Exo|Exorcism (ability)
E4E|Eye for an Eye (talent)
GCD|Global Cooldown
GoSoT|Glyph of Seal of Truth (glyph)
HoJ|Hammer of Justice (ability)
HoL|Hand of Light (spec bonus)
HoT|Heal over Time
HoW|Hammer of Wrath (ability)
HP|Holy Power
HW|Holy Wrath (ability)
ICD|Internal Cooldown
Inq|Inquisition (ability)
J|Judgement (ability)
JotP|Judgements of the Pure (talent)
JotW|Judgements of the Wise
Judge|Judgement (ability)
PoJ|Pursuit of Justice (talent)
PPM|Proc Per Minute
Sheath|Sheath of Light (spec bonus)
SoJ|Seal of Justice (ability)
SoL|Sheath of Light (spec bonus)
SoR|Seal of Righteousness (ability)
SotP|Seals of the Pure (talent)
SoT|Seal of Truth (ability)
SoT DoT|The DoT portion of SoV
SoT proc|The instant damage portion of SoV
STR|Strength (stat)
TV|Templar's Verdict (ability)
Zeal|Zealotry (talent/ability)
[/TABLE]
 1[/hr]

While supplies last (order now!). No guarantees implied. Your mileage may vary (or kilometerage). Not available in certain states (of mind). For indoor or outdoor use only. Not for use by small children (that's why we have ovens and barbecue sauce). May cause incontinence and/or temporary blindness while driving. If effects last for more than four hours, brag and link the damage meters.

=Thread Change Log=
10/13/10 Initial Post, Typo fixes, added L80 Generic stat weight suggestion
10/14/10 Upadated HoW data, Swordguard theorycraft, macros, changed spec links from MMO's wowtal to wowhead, added L80 socket bonus advice, info about Haste softcap
10/15/10 Added L80 rating values to hit/expertise cap. Populated URL for Major glyphs. Removed stat weights. Added "Do Not Ask" list. Advice about AW/Zealotry being unlinked. Update to priority based on HoW. MoW + Drums. Reverted AW/Zealotry - you want to link. Revised revision - AW and Zeal separate are better, after all.
10/18/10 Expertise at L80.
10/19/10 Corrected value for Expertise at L85. Mastery under whole numbers validated as functional.
10/20/10 Addressed Selfless healer. Removed MoW + Drums.
10/21/10 Noted Censure not updating with mid-fight Haste changes.
10/26/10 Changed some details under Spec.
11/10/10 Glyph of Templar's Verdict info. L80 Attack base and coefficients.
11/11/10 Updated TV info. Noted Redcape's spreadsheet is available. L85 base numbers (from Redcape's spreadsheet, with permission).
11/18/10 Tweak to rotation and multi-target rotation, macro adjustments for HoW priority and Zealotry off the GCD (not yet live), and Haste and the Softcap now that the "latency fix" is active.
11/22/10 CS CD and Haste update.
11/30/10 Glyph, Rebuke, and Zealotry tweaks.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#2 Spotnick

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 03:26 PM

Job very well done.

I see all your builds are including long arm of the law, I really thought this talent was pvp oriented, is there an advantage I don't see over selfless healer?

#3 Kelevevick

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 03:32 PM

Job very well done.

I see all your builds are including long arm of the law, I really thought this talent was pvp oriented, is there an advantage I don't see over selfless healer?


The more time you are attacking the boss, the more dps you do. This is the same reason we love PoJ.


Thanks for the great post Exemplar!

#4 Daler

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 03:37 PM

Job very well done.

I see all your builds are including long arm of the law, I really thought this talent was pvp oriented, is there an advantage I don't see over selfless healer?


The advantage of having a mini-sprint when we need to, e.g., swap targets or close the gap at the start of a fight far outweights the holy damage boost from selfless healer.

Let's be clear: Selfless Healer is not a DPS increase. It only lessens the decrease should you choose to spend HP to WoG someone else. It's a fine choice for the spare utility points, but it's not a DPS increasing talent. In the same way that PoJ is a DPS talent, so is Long Arm of the Law. That's why it's in the default build.

e:f,b

e2: RetCon. Nice.

#5 Capstone

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 04:13 PM

When to use Avenging Wrath? There had been some discussion about decoupling AW and Zealotry since you had no time to hit HoW during Zealotry anyway; from the priority list though it doesn't look like you'll be hitting HoW often regardless. Does this make syncing the CDs the better option, or is decoupling still more DPS?

#6 Kvothe

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 04:25 PM

When to use Avenging Wrath? There had been some discussion about decoupling AW and Zealotry since you had no time to hit HoW during Zealotry anyway; from the priority list though it doesn't look like you'll be hitting HoW often regardless. Does this make syncing the CDs the better option, or is decoupling still more DPS?


During a standard Zealotry cycle you will fit in 5-7 TVs, depending on haste, latency, and HoL procs. During a 20 second interval without Zealotry you may get 3-5 TVs. Considering that the CS+TV cycle of Zealotry is such a huge amount of our damage, it seems that coupling the two right after an Inq refresh will give an overall greater benefit to damage done than separating the two.

#7 eduh

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 04:35 PM

you have 2 different sections with the tittle "Level 85 Stat Weights - Under Hit/Exp Cap" and different values. i assume one of them is for level 80.

other than that seems very solid.

#8 Trounce

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:19 PM

Fantastic job Exemplar!

I too am very curious about how the Eye for an Eye vs. Rebuke pans out. If the change to EfaE is intended to make it viable in PvE, it may well do enough damage to make it worth taking. Even more so if Rebuke proc'ing seals is unintended, and fixed.

#9 Furiousk

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:43 PM

Thanks for all the hard work Exemplar, I agree with Trounce, interesting possibilities with Rebuke, doesnt sound like this is intended but nice to know until they patch it.

Regarding the use of inquisition. You have it here as the highest priority (maintain at all times) I did some simple testing (by no means conclusive) and found only a very small dps (2-3%) increase using inquisition vs just utilizing all 3HP for TV and not using inquisition at all. Do you think this was intended? Similar mechanics in the Feral druid tree and rogue trees provide a much larger contribution to overall damage. Its seems to be a very small increase given the added buff that needs to be maintained.

I did notice during my rotation testing that CS refresh time even under haste always seems to leave a gap (one filler with some delay before CS refreshes. Is there a level of haste that can reasonably be achieved that would remove this delay? IE always alternating between CS and TV@3*HP or the highest priority filler without any "wait time"

#10 Exemplar

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:36 PM

(Recommended to be Glyphed mana-free) Rebuke is a must as long as it procs a seal.

I just caught a bug in how I was calculating Inquisition up-time in my spreadsheet (Inq wasn't stealing HP or GCD from TV, so I would get as many TV with or without Inq). Once the bug was fixed, I'm finding Inq is a DPS loss - in ICC gear at L80 (which isn't possible since Inq is L81). I'm pretty sure part of this is due to high haste values and the quantity of CS/TV reducing fewer spellcasts. It will be something for us to examine at L85 in 85 gear. That section is definitely up for review as we gather more data. It's possible Inq is initially good at L85, then as gear increases and we reduce CS CD that we could move to a state where No Inq was superior.

Regarding CS - in Theory the following is true:
4.5 / ((105% Wrath of Air) * (109% JotP) * (100% + 31% Haste from Gear)) should = 3.0014

So in theory 31% Haste would drop you to a 3 second CD and a CS, TV/filler rotation. Effectively the haste requirement is slightly lower until the latency solution is in place. With 23% Haste your CS would be ~3.2 seconds, so CS, GCD, 100ms latency, TV/filler, GCD, 100ms latency, repeat. You may press your keyboard the instant the GCD finishes, but the server won't see it for those extra 100ms, so the next GCD starts 1.6 seconds after the first.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#11 Kellendros

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:42 PM

It's an incredible done job Exemplar, I’m impressed with the quality of your post.

I just have a question about statsweight:

Wasn't we supposed to get hit cap > expertise cap > haste soft cap (3 seconds CD on CS). Until that point haste was found to be superior than critical, that at least until yesterday, on this same forum (not topic of course).

Did I miss something regarding haste on the last hours? If I did, could someone please indicate the math behind Haste (pre soft cap) VS Critical?

#12 Exemplar

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:27 PM

Probably true. I'm effectively past the haste soft cap (with latency) in my present gear, which devalues it for me. Since I'm a single data point floating in the middle of three dimensional space, it's not very accurate. I'll add a note to the post.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#13 Nätion

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:29 PM

I have found using the addon Retribution Rotation Helper, that I found on wowinterface.com, simpler than attempting to setup the new clcinfo, I did not attempt to use the new clcret however, so that may be superior. In either case, it could be an addon option worth mentioning. It is much more basic that clcret was and clcinfo is.

#14 sternkanz

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:53 PM

So will the value of haste be similar to armor pen was for ferals (and other classes I know) where once you have a certain amount of it you should stack crit again? (for them agility). Or is that only at level 85?

edit:@80 also since hit is a blue gem now would chaotic skyflare diamond be better than relentless due to getting a useful stat from a blue socket?

#15 xVanished

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:59 PM

Great post, thank you very much.
I cannot wait to see which weapon enchant does the most damage.

#16 purgex

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:10 PM

Remember that movement speed is a dps gain. With that said, it is more of a dps gain to be able to control when you can move faster, than a passive movement speed (15%).

To clarify, this is what we are aiming for:Posted Image

Also, would it be better to add "/stopcasting" to the Crusader Strike macro, incase one presses Exorcism while it isn't instant-cast? I'm finding that a lot of the time i'll accidentally start casting exorcism, thus loosing dps. eg:
#showtooltip Crusader Strike
/stopcasting
/cast Crusader Strike
/startattack

Also,

4. Re: Expertise Cap - bugged? fixed? as is? 10/28/2010 09:30:12 AM PDT

Due to recalibrating expertise for Cataclysm, level 80-83 creatures (which includes bosses) dodge and parry less, so you need less expertise, 23, to be exact. Sorry we didn't announce this. I would classify it as an unintended consequence (though not unknown) and not a desired change on our part.

At level 85, you will need 26 again.


Expertise cap is 23. 13 glyphed.

#17 Rennadrel

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:11 PM

It's an incredible done job Exemplar, I’m impressed with the quality of your post.

I just have a question about statsweight:

Wasn't we supposed to get hit cap > expertise cap > haste soft cap (3 seconds CD on CS). Until that point haste was found to be superior than critical, that at least until yesterday, on this same forum (not topic of course).

Did I miss something regarding haste on the last hours? If I did, could someone please indicate the math behind Haste (pre soft cap) VS Critical?


Something I noticed after the patch was the amount of Crit rating I had unbuffed went down a fair bit, prior to the patch I had 40% then it dropped to about 30% so my guess is the overall value of critical strike rating for the end of Wrath is much lower then it was before. Having 3 second CD on CS would put haste at a much higher value then crit from a gemming standpoint because we are probably getting 1% haste easier then what it would take for 1% crit, which to be honest a 10 strength + 10 crit gem isn't giving you a lot while every point of haste is going to have a larger impact on CS CD's.

#18 Exemplar

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:17 PM

Juggling numbers, I've found that reforging allows a lot of finesse in gearing. My present gear is at 8.2 hit (via 3 items) and 29.75 expertise (via 2 items + Glyph). You can now push the limit. If I reforge hit off of one item, and reforge another item to add hit, I can wind up with an overall migration of hit to crit or haste. Expertise I can also lower to 26 by removing on two pieces and adding on another.

Example: I plan to remove 37 expertise rating from one item (adding 37 haste), then add 32 expertise to another (removing 32 haste). Net result, expertise beyond the cap is transformed into 5 haste rating.

End results, with careful juggling nearly every rating of hit or expertise beyond the cap can be converted into another rating. Often you're unable to absolutely min-max - I want more Crit, but it's not possible since the item I'm reforging from Expertise or Hit already has Crit, so I could only add Haste - but nearly every rating point can be squeezed for effective DPS.

Anyone over Hit or Expertise cap (or not currently using Glyph of SoT) should investigate this juggling act on their own gear.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#19 Rennadrel

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:19 PM

Juggling numbers, I've found that reforging allows a lot of finesse in gearing. My present gear is at 8.2 hit (via 3 items) and 29.75 expertise (via 2 items + Glyph). You can now push the limit. If I reforge hit off of one item, and reforge another item to add hit, I can wind up with an overall migration of hit to crit or haste. Expertise I can also lower to 26 by removing on two pieces and adding on another.

Example: I plan to remove 37 expertise rating from one item (adding 37 haste), then add 32 expertise to another (removing 32 haste). Net result, expertise beyond the cap is transformed into 5 haste rating.

End results, with careful juggling nearly every rating of hit or expertise beyond the cap can be converted into another rating. Often you're unable to absolutely min-max - I want more Crit, but it's not possible since the item I'm reforging from Expertise or Hit already has Crit, so I could only add Haste - but nearly every rating point can be squeezed for effective DPS.

Anyone over Hit or Expertise cap (or not currently using Glyph of SoT) should investigate this juggling act on their own gear.


I actually spent some time and did this earlier today. With the glyph of Seal of Truths, 264 Sanc legs and 277 Fleshrending Gauntlets with 36 expertise reforged on them, I am bang on 26 expertise cap and still at 8.97% hit rating. I would have more haste if I had all BIS but currently have 847 haste rating with 12.71% mastery. I am going to be testing this out in raid tonight and see what I can change around.

#20 cannadrys

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:29 PM

Tailoring


Swordguard Embroidery, grants 800 AP for 15 seconds, most likely with a 45 second ICD. This would be an average 267 AP, compared to 176 AP (80 Str * 1.05 Plate Specialization * 1.05 Kings * 2 AP per Str) from other professions. However, this replaces the normal cloak enchant. 90 AP may or may not be greater than 65 Crit to cloak.


In reference to the underlined part.

Going by your chart (str = 1, and crit = 0.26 per item point).

41 Str x 1.10 (kings and plate mastery) x 2 (2 ap per str) = 90.2 AP
So as a rough estimation 90 AP as mentioned in your post is worth the same as 41 Str, or basically 41 DPS ranking.

65 x 0.26 = 16.9 DPS ranking.

Looks like the tailoring enchant is worth a lot more, at least at current stat values.

Unless I'm wrong on this one, it would seem, that tailoring might actually be our top DPS profession.
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