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Dots and you: The 4.0 Affliction Warlock thread


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#41 Innulock

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 12:42 AM

idd, i'm under similar impression..
DPET of "current" drain soul should be lower then shadobolt.. issue is: drain soul refresh unstable as well under 25%, so i'm wondering wether the saved gcd every 14-15 sec is better or not then shadow bolt...
hope some heavy theorycrafter will give us some solid number-crunching :/


The current execute drain soul has a DPET almost double that of shadowbolt, so it's still worth using it below 25%.

http://elitistjerks....rs/#post1123387 -> DS DPET 12.8k / SB DPET 7.4k, check the Affliction spec

#42 phancythat

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 04:44 AM

I've been unsure about this for a while and would really appreciate somebody clearing it up for me. I'm an affliction warlock and my corruption refreshes upon applying haunt or a SB which basically means that I need only cast it once usually. I have Muradin's Spyglass as well as lightweave tailoring etc. Does this mean that I should re apply corruption when these buffs occur rather than leaving the original corruption to be refreshed?

Also was wondering about the soul swap ability, when re-applied are the DoTs refreshed?

#43 Kuku

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 06:07 AM

I've been unsure about this for a while and would really appreciate somebody clearing it up for me. I'm an affliction warlock and my corruption refreshes upon applying haunt or a SB which basically means that I need only cast it once usually. I have Muradin's Spyglass as well as lightweave tailoring etc. Does this mean that I should re apply corruption when these buffs occur rather than leaving the original corruption to be refreshed?

Also was wondering about the soul swap ability, when re-applied are the DoTs refreshed?


There is no need to ever reapply corruption unless it falls off. Damage is updated with buffs.

And soul swap will apply full-duration dots.

#44 Sixxs

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 11:53 AM

Does UA/CoA update buffs each tick as well? Or should we wait to apply our first set after haunt? Because they are not continuously being refreshed by SB/Haunt.

#45 Innulock

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 01:09 PM

Since haunt is a debuff, ticks are updated for haunt continuously.

#46 Guest_Alkii_*

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 04:30 PM

Is Lightweave Embroidery from Tailoring being figured correctly?

I'm seeing Lightweave Embroidery coming in a lot higher than expected.
15/50(45 sec CD+5) = .3
.3*295= 88.5 Effective Spell Power
88.5*3.0770 = 272 DPS

This is even higher than Jewelcrafting (176 DPS) AND Blacksmithing (167 DPS) from the original post seen in this thread. Is this correct or am I doing something terribly wrong here? I ask this because I was thinking about dropping Tailoring for Herbalism for the +40 Effective Haste (which would ultimately give me an additional 23 Haste from Enchant Cloak - Greater Speed) for a total of 63 Effective Haste.

#47 Draezaal

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 05:58 PM

Is Lightweave Embroidery from Tailoring being figured correctly?

I'm seeing Lightweave Embroidery coming in a lot higher than expected.
15/50(45 sec CD+5) = .3
.3*295= 88.5 Effective Spell Power
88.5*3.0770 = 272 DPS

This is even higher than Jewelcrafting (176 DPS) AND Blacksmithing (167 DPS) from the original post seen in this thread. Is this correct or am I doing something terribly wrong here? I ask this because I was thinking about dropping Tailoring for Herbalism for the +40 Effective Haste (which would ultimately give me an additional 23 Haste from Enchant Cloak - Greater Speed) for a total of 63 Effective Haste.


You forgot to subtract the value of the 23 haste that would otherwise go on the cloak, which leads to an effective dps increase of either ((88.5 * 3.0770) - (23 * 3.2885)) (this thread) or ((88.5 * 3.0699) - (23 * 3.3737)) (simcraft thread). Either way, it's somewhere around 195 dps, assuming the Lightweave proc rate hasn't diminished below your estimate of 30% uptime. It's closer to 150 dps if Lightweave has a 25% uptime, which I believe I've seen somewhere recently, which would put Tailoring below Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing. In any event, Herbalism comes out at around 135 dps, far below even Tailoring.

#48 Guest_Alkii_*

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 01:19 PM

You forgot to subtract the value of the 23 haste that would otherwise go on the cloak, which leads to an effective dps increase of either ((88.5 * 3.0770) - (23 * 3.2885)) (this thread) or ((88.5 * 3.0699) - (23 * 3.3737)) (simcraft thread). Either way, it's somewhere around 195 dps, assuming the Lightweave proc rate hasn't diminished below your estimate of 30% uptime. It's closer to 150 dps if Lightweave has a 25% uptime, which I believe I've seen somewhere recently, which would put Tailoring below Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing. In any event, Herbalism comes out at around 135 dps, far below even Tailoring.


Thank you for the heads up and clearing that up for me. I tested it last night for about 4 hours on dummies and a few raid bosses. I saw around 25-26% uptime from said tests. Thus putting Lightweave somewhere around the 150 DPS range you mentioned and not the much higher 195 DPS range from a 30% uptime I had originally figured.

#49 Zakalwe

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 08:19 AM

Explain plz:confused:

Simple explanation - Wowhead is not to be trusted.

#50 Caltiom

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 08:31 AM

Fel Armor: 1455 Spell Power
but now as i can see in game Fel Armor gives only 180 Spell Power

Explain plz:confused:


This is because wowhead takes the wrong scaling type.

From the simcraft database, effect 17645 we get m_avg=1.4400000572.

The scaling_type for spell 28176 ( Fel Armor ) is -1, ( which in Simcraft is called PLAYER_NONE ). This is not type=PLAYER_WARLOCK, even though Fel Armor is a normal Warlock spell.

Scaling Values for type PLAYER_NONE are:
80: 125.000000000000000
81: 305.000000000000000
82: 338.000000000000000
83: 375.000000000000000
84: 407.000000000000000
85: 443.000000000000000

Which gives for example for level 80: 1.4400000572 * 125 = 180.00000715
Or for level 85: 1.4400000572 * 443 = 637.92002534

#51 TekLB

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 07:54 AM

Curently i'm sitting on 1342 (40,93) haste, my corruption ticks 8 times per 2.13sec with total of 17,04sec of corruption duration. If i push my haste to +30 i am able to get a 9th tick per 2,12sec with total of 19.08sec corruption duration. Is this intended in order to ''fit'' and divide the 9th tick or is it somehow bugged ? Obviously at 1372 haste and the duration of corruption unchanged at 18sec would not give me that extra tick, instead i would have a 1,08sec ''gap'' in whole duration. I would apreciate some more thoughts on it.

#52 Palinq

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 01:26 AM

There is no need to ever reapply corruption unless it falls off. Damage is updated with buffs.

And soul swap will apply full-duration dots.


I was under the impression that dots did *not* refresh crit, or % damage effects - they maintained the stats they had at application. For instance, if 4pc tier 10 is up when we apply corruption it carries this benefit until that dot falls off. Is this not the case anymore? My target dummy tests were inconclusive but seem to indicate it isn't the case anymore; however, I can't recall reading this changing.

#53 randa

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 07:09 AM

Curently i'm sitting on 1342 (40,93) haste, my corruption ticks 8 times per 2.13sec with total of 17,04sec of corruption duration. If i push my haste to +30 i am able to get a 9th tick per 2,12sec with total of 19.08sec corruption duration. Is this intended in order to ''fit'' and divide the 9th tick or is it somehow bugged ? Obviously at 1372 haste and the duration of corruption unchanged at 18sec would not give me that extra tick, instead i would have a 1,08sec ''gap'' in whole duration. I would apreciate some more thoughts on it.


You have a good explanation in this post "Haste Info".

#54 thecapuchin

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 02:08 PM

I was under the impression that dots did *not* refresh crit, or % damage effects - they maintained the stats they had at application. For instance, if 4pc tier 10 is up when we apply corruption it carries this benefit until that dot falls off. Is this not the case anymore? My target dummy tests were inconclusive but seem to indicate it isn't the case anymore; however, I can't recall reading this changing.


Corruption now updates crit/haste/dmg % increases with each tick, or so I've read. Another reason that NMIC is no longer great for Affliction.
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#55 Caltiom

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 04:10 PM

Corruption now updates crit/haste/dmg % increases with each tick, or so I've read. Another reason that NMIC is no longer great for Affliction.


Stop believing everything a GM says. Stats from the source of a debuff/dot are snapshoted when it is applied and don't change on each tick. Only the target debuffs are recalculated.

And even when refreshing of a dot you have to differ between refreshing it by itself, or by a other spell (Haunt for Corruption, HoG for Immolate). In this case of refreshing it by another spell, haste is still not updated, which can easily be tested. Testing crit & player_multipliers would take a large sample.
I really haven't seen any hard evidence to prove that they changed the rolling of stats when refreshing a dot by a other spell. The haste rolling indicates that nothing changed from wotlk to cataclysm, so in my opinion it would be safe to assume that they didn't change the crit & multiplier rolling either. Here is a great thread on shadowpriest.com for the wotlk mechanics: shadowpriest.com • View topic - Shadow Word: Pain and refreshing through P&S

#56 Nnayr

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 06:43 PM

edit: deleted for inaccuracy

#57 Nokwar

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 08:37 PM

refreshing it by another spell, haste is still not updated, which can easily be tested. Testing crit & player_multipliers would take a large sample.


On the 2nd part(crit/multipliers):
that is true and I assume it has been done since it is mentioned as a fact here at EJ that those are rechecked nowadays.

The 1st part however makes me wonder...
Ever since corruption scales with haste the haste-value is checked on any refresh to corruption.
So unless they changed that back to 3.3 beta behavior (and i haven't seen any evidence for that) your statement above is false and I(and probably many others) would like to see your "proof" for it.

#58 Caltiom

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:15 PM

Surely I can do this, here is a screenshot: http://img264.images...02710184852.jpg

I used Power Infusion for it instead of an equipment switch, because it is clearly visible in the combat log, but still gives a siginificant boost to haste to get more ticks.

Explanation of the screenshot:
Test 1:
Corruption Tick
Power Infusion
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Haunt which refreshes Corruption
Corruption Tick
Power Infusion expires
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick

So I refreshed Corruption between tick 5 and 6 (with Haunt), and there have been 6 more ticks.

Test 2:
Corruption Tick
Power Infusion
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption which refreshes Corruption by itself
Corruption Tick
Power Infusion expires
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick
Corruption Tick

Again I refreshed Corruption between tick 5 and 6 (with Corruption), and there have been 8 more ticks.

The whole thing has great implications on affliction and demonology warlocks with their refreshement mechanics. Affliction should really look out for Eradication, the 20% haste might be a big boost. Demonology greatly depends on whether multipliers are kept or not, if the same criterias as in wotlk still apply, he might have to renew it while in metamorphosis.

And regarding crit/multipliers: I still don't believe that they are updated on refresh (by a third spell), even if some people here at EJ take it as a fact.

#59 Icaria

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:25 PM

What is the optimal start?


The optimal starting sequence is now Corruption->Unstable Affliction->Bane of Agony->Haunt->Shadow Bolt, just according to the priority list (starting with Haunt makes no sense as there are no DoTs benefiting from it yet).


While I agree that there are no DoTs benefiting from it yet, did you take into consideration the travel time of Haunt? My typical starting sequence nowadays goes BoA (as I run in) -> Haunt -> Corruption -> UA -> Shadow Bolt etc, and I find that Haunt hits right as I start casting Shadow Bolt. In other words, the debuff from Haunt is applied as soon as UA and Corruption starts ticking. BoA starts off weak, so I don't see the few ticks that doesn't get buffed by Haunt a big issue. Just my two cents though, either way, it's not going to make or break your DPS.

In any case, great work on this thread, it helped me solve a certain Hit and Gear optimization issue I've had since 4.0.1

#60 Melfqw

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 11:20 PM

[COLOR="Red"]
The unglyphed Soul Swap takes two GCDs to transfer a maximum of three DoTs to another target.


The description of the spell says it removes all shadow DoTs from the target. Haunt is the only shadow DoT not transferred by Soul Swap. I went about testing the maximum of three part and you are not quite correct. It will transfer corruption, and UA. You can transfer Bane of Agony, and also Bane of Doom but not both at the same time seeing as you can only have one active at a time we will never know if 3 is the cap of the spell, or if that is the maximum amount of shadow DoTs that are affected by this spell that we can have on one single target. Soul Swap will transfer Bane of Doom, but since it resets the countdown timer that is a worthless thing to do. Even with the Glyph of Soul Swap, Bane of Doom can still only affect one target at a time(theres a glich i would love to have).




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