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[BETA] Resto Discussion


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#1 Carebare

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 01:46 AM

This thread is ONLY for BETA discussion. If it's on live, use the appropriate thread.

i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.


#2 Kluian

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 03:56 PM

Beta build - 13189

Swift Rejuvenation bug remains (gcd stays at 1.25 after 1 talent point)

Swiftmend still does not benefit from Gift of Nature.

New Tree of Life model is in. It appears the color of the model is based on your race. You can cast moonfire / starfire in ToL.

The instant root glyph CD was changed to 5 seconds, down from 10.

Lifebloom is now fixed in ToL form. You can't have separate multiple Lifebloom stacks going on the same person (one which was started before ToL, and one after). Also Nourish refreshes any LB stack. Right now this has the sideffect that you can keep multiple LB stacks going after ToL ends, as long as they are refreshed by Nourish.

Not exactly sure what the change was with Eff being (heals over 7.5 seconds). Standing in it you still receive 7 ticks. Perhaps the first tick was delayed by half a second.

Below are some ToL cast animations and scale size

Heal cast - http://img832.images...461/tolcast.jpg
Heal instant - http://img64.imagesh.../tolinstant.jpg
Damage spell cast - http://img145.images...9/tolattack.jpg

#3 struhsr@comcast.net

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 04:48 PM

I have dual spec'd a NE Druid as Healer and Boomkin. He is currently level 80. For some reason I cannot fill all of the glyphs on the Boomkin side, yet I have all of the slots filled on the Heal side. Anyone else having a similar problem with dual spec'd toons? My other toons (DK, and a low level NE Druid Heal/Boomkin) do not have any issues with glyphs, and they are all dual spec'd also. Any help would naturally be appreciated.

#4 Kluian

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 06:24 PM

misquote, WG coefficient wasn't changed, it was wild mushroom.

#5 RobotChicken

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 06:43 PM

Below are some ToL cast animations and scale size

Heal cast - http://img832.images...461/tolcast.jpg
Heal instant - http://img64.imagesh.../tolinstant.jpg
Damage spell cast - http://img145.images...9/tolattack.jpg


Just an interesting nerd fact, but the animations appear to be based off of the orc casting animations. I haven't logged into the beta for a little while (messing around on Live) but i will try and get a video of the animations for anybody that wants to see them soon.

#6 Erdluf

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 06:55 PM

As someone posted on the other thread they also nerfed the coefficient of wild growth.

13164 shows WG coefficient of 0.928. 13189 shows 0.464

With this change Eff heals for more than WG unless you have substantial haste values to gain extra ticks on WG.


My bad. That should have been Wild Mushrooms. Going over there to edit that post.

#7 Carebare

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 11:06 PM

To tack onto Kluian, Cyclone is also castable in tree. Seems like the few breaking balance spells were just code-leftovers from WOTLK. Glad they fixed the LB/Nourish delay. OoC is still consumed by Nourish (drat).

i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.


#8 RobotChicken

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 11:56 PM

To tack onto Kluian, Cyclone is also castable in tree. Seems like the few breaking balance spells were just code-leftovers from WOTLK. Glad they fixed the LB/Nourish delay. OoC is still consumed by Nourish (drat).


It's good to know they fixed all these bugs. I don't think they're going to remove Nourish from OoC unless they start get reports pouring in of druids running OOM just because they keep wasting OoC procs. Or you manage to get in real good with a developer, I don't know. Regardless, I think the best solution would simply be to make it so OoC doesn't get consumed by a cast already in progress. This way you can guarentee you will get to choose your spell.

#9 Playered

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 11:59 PM

Seems that two issues have been resolved recently:

*Empowered Touch - Now grants both Healing Touch and Nourish a 50/100% chance to refresh the duration of your Lifebloom on targets.
*Nature's Grace - Now can be activated by Regrowth.

(Source)

This finally allows us to have valid points to spend in Balance to enter the second tier if we wish which should give us a few more options to play around with and the HT adaption is just logical.

I don't know anything


#10 RobotChicken

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 12:29 AM

Seems that two issues have been resolved recently:

(Source)

This finally allows us to have valid points to spend in Balance to enter the second tier if we wish which should give us a few more options to play around with and the HT adaption is just logical.


Maybe once we get to the point where we have no mana problems again, but right now there's no way I could take Nature's Grace at 85, let alone get into the second tier of Balance. Still, the Empowered Touch change is very welcome, and perhaps they will reduce our bloat a little bit to give us more choice so that we can potentially take more Balance talents.

#11 Hoofhearted

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 03:40 AM

If you call resto builds bloated you will never be happy. Resto builds are in a very good state and there are many different ways to spec, probably the spec with the most actual choices right now.

I tried the nourish/lb refresh lag a few hours ago and it would still fall off 1 second after nourish hit. How close did you manage to refresh it Carebare?
After the second out of 2 fast patches it refreshes instantly for me now.
Aaaaand after further testing it only refreshes on myself, and the regrowth part of nature's grace does not work.

#12 RobotChicken

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 04:11 AM

I didn't say I didn't like them, but the talent trees are still bloated. There is no wiggle room for the utility talents we were promised, and that's pretty sad. At 85, GotEM and Swift Rejuv are pretty poor talents, and almost no build would take them, which is also a disappointment. But you must not construe this as dislike for the tree as a whole, I think Blizzard will do a very good job of it by the time Cataclysm actually drops. The Empowered Touch change is a very good sign of that.

#13 Carebare

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 12:45 PM

If you call resto builds bloated you will never be happy. Resto builds are in a very good state and there are many different ways to spec, probably the spec with the most actual choices right now.

I tried the nourish/lb refresh lag a few hours ago and it would still fall off 1 second after nourish hit. How close did you manage to refresh it Carebare?
After the second out of 2 fast patches it refreshes instantly for me now.
Aaaaand after further testing it only refreshes on myself, and the regrowth part of nature's grace does not work.


Yeah my mistake, I thought they would have fixed that this time around on LB/Nourish, I'm very sure it won't go live with its current state. It's obvious via combat logs that something is messed up there, since you can see the Nourish land and then the LB expires. You can do it on yourself down to the wire, but on other people there is a delay of sorts.

HT to refresh LB is great. I think all we need now is someway to reduce the cast time on HT further (which other classes have on their biggest heals, some sort of proc from casting something else).

I do think the Resto talent tree is clunky. I'm not sure how you can say they are in a good state. Too many of our talents affect 1 or 2 spells forcing us to pick up many talents when there should be a better way to condense them. Nonetheless this patch has brought us a lot of improvements and I'm hopeful the polish will continue.

i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.


#14 Kluian

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 05:41 PM

Build - 13195

Empowered Touch is bugged. Neither nourish or healing touch refresh lifebloom stacks.

#15 Avena

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 06:03 PM

Aaaaand after further testing it only refreshes on myself, and the regrowth part of nature's grace does not work.


Both are bugged in the current build (13195).

World of Warcraft: Cataclysm Beta - (English) Forums -> Resto Druid in build 13195


I currently see the resto druid as some kind of hybrid, healing tanks with lifebloom & nourish/ht, passive healing on melees (or other grps standing together) with efflorescence, patching up the raid with rejuvenation and wild growth (which btw now has a really nice range). It seems though, that we currently are missing some tools for that purpose... I miss a flash heal like spell (since they changed nourish), Regrowth is way to expensive to be abused for flash healing purposes, and since they increased the cd on Wild Growth, the AoE Healing abilities of the druid are quite limited to Reju spam.

#16 Fallenangel

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 06:33 PM

If you call resto builds bloated you will never be happy. Resto builds are in a very good state and there are many different ways to spec, probably the spec with the most actual choices right now.


This choice between throughput and throughput is the very definition of bloat in the way Blizzard presented their new vision for talent trees.
The sheer amount of talents that one can take in the resto tree is not even close to any other spec in the game - healing, DPS or tanking. Not a single other spec can spend 40 points and not take a single utility / pvp / fun talent that's not a forced preq.
You're cheering for something Blizzard specifically said they want to move away from, that's specifically not supposed to happen. And the violation in the resto tree is so blatant that it's really hard to explain.

HT to refresh LB is great. I think all we need now is someway to reduce the cast time on HT further (which other classes have on their biggest heals, some sort of proc from casting something else).


To be fair, paladins were changed just now to not have a proc (or well, not a reliable one - they need a crit on HS). Only shamans remain as the outlier with 100%, 2 charge haste from riptide. HT is now also the cheapest big heal.

#17 Carebare

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 07:40 PM

Build - 13195

Empowered Touch is bugged. Neither nourish or healing touch refresh lifebloom stacks.


Mostly accurate, though it refreshes a lifebloom stack on yourself. (Both spells) Just not on other people, which is yea fairly useless.

To be fair, paladins were changed just now to not have a proc (or well, not a reliable one - they need a crit on HS). Only shamans remain as the outlier with 100%, 2 charge haste from riptide. HT is now also the cheapest big heal.


Actually, Serendipity still exists I think?

i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.


#18 Fallenangel

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 08:18 PM

Fair enough, I forgot about Serendipity. I think it's a disparity that falls well within the uniqueness of classes, though. Gaining 30% haste for 2 spellcasts every 6 seconds, on the other hand...

#19 Dav1l

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 10:44 PM

This choice between throughput and throughput is the very definition of bloat in the way Blizzard presented their new vision for talent trees.
The sheer amount of talents that one can take in the resto tree is not even close to any other spec in the game - healing, DPS or tanking. Not a single other spec can spend 40 points and not take a single utility / pvp / fun talent that's not a forced preq.
You're cheering for something Blizzard specifically said they want to move away from, that's specifically not supposed to happen. And the violation in the resto tree is so blatant that it's really hard to explain.

This choice between throughput and throughput is actually what makes speccing fun. I was doing my warlock tonight and basically had fun/fun choices. To be honest, they are pretty dull and you don't need to put any research or thought in them whatsoever. You end up doing well whatever choice you make. I sincerely hope restoration tree stays the same as it is now.

I do understand that tastes differ, but I honestly can't understand why would one want warlock-like tree. Imagine that you had something like Nature's Grace vs. Fury of Stormrage vs. Nature's Ward. There's no 'lose' scenario, you always win. You get a really small benefit to something you don't use often OR you get a really small benefit to something you don't use often. Pick a random one and you are good. Please explain me, how is it fun?

#20 Kluian

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 05:35 AM

On the bright side it seems like the LB refresh mechanic is a lot smoother than it use to be. Just testing on myself I'm able to refresh the LB with Nourish/HT when the hot is ticking in the <1 second range (where the hot states 0 seconds remaining on the tooltip).




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