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Fury DPS: 4.0 and Cataclysm


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#1 Vitalstatistix

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 08:21 PM

The concurrent discussion of the two (quite different) specs in the sticky threads is becoming hard to follow. Lets split it up and use this thread for topics related to Fury.

#2 Gulvan

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 10:20 PM

do the changes to hit and benefit of str make rowan's rifle and might of the ocean serpent cloak go up on the BiS list?


I would have to say so because of the benefit of Exp as well as reforging. I think atm rowan's or the carbine from dreamwalker 10man are BIS for warriors. I was using stakthrower but notice that my dps goes up with carbine.

#3 Tachikoma

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 10:27 PM

I've been testing fury spec on target dummies today, and given the amount of damage I'm getting between bloodthirst, herioc strike, slam and raging blow, slam does not seem like it's worth including in the rotation. It does the least amount of damage per point of rage. Interestingly enough, with incite, Heroic strike is doing a lot more damage than any other ability. I'm considering dropping one point in war academy for 3 points in incite and was wondering what other people's feelings were with that. Bloodthirst still does decent damage (~1000 less than heroic stike when it doesn't crit) though it doesn't crit as much. Right now, I'm getting the best amount of dps when I prioritize my abilities like so:

Heroic Strike > Blood Thirst > Raging Blow > Slam(only when proc'd and hasted).

I wonder if slam was just left out of the list of buffs Blizzard gave to warriors the past couple days.

#4 Tachikoma

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 11:45 PM

I reforged haste on my gear to hit. Haste definitely has it's perks now in that you'll generate rage faster from faster hits. Hard for me to tell which is better though. I may try unforging some of my stuff back to haste and see how I do. I've also been getting about 10k dps on the target dummy.

I already tried mastery and it doesn't look like it's better than either of the previous stats. Only raging blow seemed to benefit in damage and only in minuscule amounts from mastery. Correct me if I'm wrong.

#5 jbhdhf

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 11:52 PM

Here are my personal stats:

Self buffed with battle shout and rampage ONLY

AP: 5779
Haste:734 (22.38%)
Hit: 273
crit: 1756 (52.21%)
expertise: 26/23
mastery: 0

Spec: 3/3 war academy 2/3 incite

Based on around 20 minutes of dummy dps i calculated the following damage/rage cost:

BT= 511.55 damage/rage
HS= 439.5 damage/rage
RB= 342.95 damage/rage

Slam was so bad that it was not worth using. I read they were going to reduce the cost of slam on proc to zero rage, but this is not currently active on live.

using the following priority system: BT>HS>RB

I'm sitting at around 10.3-10.5k dps on the dummy.

The breakdown of my damage using the priority above was:

HS= 34.6%
BT= 29%
melee= 28.6%
RB= 6.2%
chaos bane= 1.6%


I would love to hear some numbers for other people with different Stats, to help compare the effectiveness of hit vs haste vs mastery ect.

NOTE: be sure to use the raid dummy with no other buffs active. I had to go to silvermoon on my server to have solo access to the raid dummy.

#6 Flytan

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 11:58 PM

I've hit the hard cap for hit, 30%+ haste while holding 35% crit. I'm using H DBW/TAiaJ as my trinkets. My target dummy parses have been over 11k with that setup. I've tried not using TAiaJ and replacing it with H Death's Choice and H WFS, DPS has been lost consistently.

Anyone else running similar parses regarding haste and TAiaJ or are my samples too small to balance it out?

#7 Azuli

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 12:04 AM

I'm having trouble with my napkin math making sense...

I was looking over my tool tips while sitting in IF, unbuffed, and not in a party or raid. I currently have no mastery on my gear. My melee damage shows a 156% buff on MH and OH. Now I do have the 4pc T10 bonus (5%) and the 10% from Zerker Stance, and I even calculated in the 10% I'm supposed to get from Dual-wielding form the passive fury talents.

So that's: 100%(normal) * 1.1 (talents) * 1.05 (T10 4pc) * 1.1 (Dual wielding) = 127.05% damage


Possible solution : The mastery stat says it gives 25% bonus to anything that requires or causes enraged effects.

If so: 100% * 1.1 * 1.05 * 1.1 * 1.25(mastery) = 158.8125% so it's close but still off...hmm


I also tried respeccing to my Prot spec to see if it was that mastery stat with the fury tree, and low and behold I had 115% damage since I couldn't DW.

I also flipped back to fury spec but took off BOTH of my weapons and I STILL had 156% damage!!

So either the mastery is supposed to scale with ALL of our damage or it's grabbing the bonus from mastery and not the 10% bonus from DW-ing.

Lastly I went into ICC to see if they buff stuck with me for some reason but my damage went to 203%!

I know Blizzard recently buffed us warriors, but I wouldn't think they changed our damage % scaling with mastery just some coeffs. of tree specific abilities.

Anyone else replicate these issues? I'd love some feedback on this, be it criticism of my math skills or otherwise.

Thankx, love the EJ Forums, come here all the time, rarely post because all the right things(pertinent to me) have been said thus far...


- Azuli

#8 jbhdhf

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 12:05 AM

Deleted. I accidentally referenced azzuli's armory for flytans post.

#9 jbhdhf

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 12:43 AM

Here are my personal stats:

Self buffed with battle shout and rampage ONLY

AP: 5779
Haste:734 (22.38%)
Hit: 273
crit: 1756 (52.21%)
expertise: 26/23
mastery: 0

Spec: 3/3 war academy 2/3 incite

Based on around 20 minutes of dummy dps i calculated the following damage/rage cost:

BT= 511.55 damage/rage
HS= 439.5 damage/rage
RB= 342.95 damage/rage

Slam was so bad that it was not worth using. I read they were going to reduce the cost of slam on proc to zero rage, but this is not currently active on live.

using the following priority system: BT>HS>RB

I'm sitting at around 10.3-10.5k dps on the dummy.

The breakdown of my damage using the priority above was:

HS= 34.6%
BT= 29%
melee= 28.6%
RB= 6.2%
chaos bane= 1.6%


I would love to hear some numbers for other people with different Stats, to help compare the effectiveness of hit vs haste vs mastery ect.

NOTE: be sure to use the raid dummy with no other buffs active. I had to go to silvermoon on my server to have solo access to the raid dummy.


So i realized recount was counting each raging blow as 2 hits, due to using both weapons.

The actual damage/rage point calcs should be:

RB: 626.9
BT: 520
HS: 443

I'm going to modify my rotation to reflect this and see what I can do.

#10 Korash

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 01:12 AM

Here is my test on the Boss Dummy. Eu Server, first hotfix is live, but of course no free slam and 150% weapon damage for Slam yet.

Standard War Academy Incite Spec.

Stats self buffed

AP: 5395
Haste: 13.11%
Hit: 22,54%
Crit: 55,91%
Mastery: 26/23

Note: My Gear isn't fully socketed yet as I still got some 20 crit gems floating around in my gear. Only reforged haste to hit, so I could still reforge some crit to hit. Trinkets are H WFS and STS.

Test 1: 7 minute sample

Damage breakdown

1. Melee 28,6%
2. Heroic Strike 27,1%
3. Bloodthirst 26,4%
4. Raging Blow 15,4%
5. Chaos Bane 1,7%
6. Slam 0,6%

9901 DPS for that timeframe.

Been ignoring slam more or less completely, cause the damage is just pathetic for its rage cost.
But 24,4k HS crits on the other hand are just pure sex.

Test 2: 11 minute sample (Still not regemmed all of my gear)

1. Melee 29,2%
2. Bloodthirst 27,4%
3. Heroic Strike 26,5%
4. Raging Blow 14,8%
5. Chaos Bane 1,6%
6. Slam 0,5%

10320 DPS

#11 jbhdhf

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 01:51 AM

With the new priorities from my revised dmg/rage calculations:

10 minute pull, self buffed same as before(bs, and rampage only:

11.3k dps

BT 29%
melee 27.1%
HS 24.8%
RB 17.1%
Chaos bane 1.5%

my stats are unchanged from my previous post.


I'd love to see some more posts with different hit/haste levels for comparison. I may consider playing with reforging myself.

Of course when the slam change goes live, this will change.

#12 redsmash

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 02:43 AM

(Wall of text, I'm sorry)

I did a 5 million damage test (came out to 8.5 min)

I also had a flask and food buff (+40 str) left over from an instance that I couldn't click off.

Buffs:
Shout, +40 str food, endless rage flask
Stats:
AP 6077
Haste: 20.92%
Hit: 747 (27.29%)
Crit: 38.10%
Exp: 26/26
Mastery: 8

10k dps

HS 29.4%
Melee 28.5%
BT 23.4%
RB 13.2%
Slam 3.8%
Chaos Bane 1.7%

I'm going to change my gear away from hit and go heavy haste and post my results.
Edit:

Test 2 Heavy Haste (9.5 Min):
Buffs:
Shout, +40 str food, endless rage flask
HS 29.4%
Melee 28.5%
BT 23.4%
RB 13.2%
Slam 3.8%
Chaos Bane 1.7%

DPS 9.5k

Melee 28.8%
HS 26.1%
BT 24.4%
RB 15.1%
Slam 3.7%
Chaos Bane 1.8%

Rage gen was much worse during the 2nd test. Missing the white swings was killing it.

Edit 2:
Test 3 Regular stats (8.5 min):

Buffs:
Shout, +40 str food, endless rage flask
Stats:
AP 6077
Haste: 21.74%
Hit: 292 (12.49%)
Crit: 44.94%
Exp: 26/26
Mastery: 8

9.2k

HS 28.4%
Melee 28.3%
BT 24.9%
RB 12.4%
Slam 4.2%
Chaos Bane 1.8%

I removed all reforging from my gear and it is almost back in the state it was before I started the testing. I still have a few hit gems in place. Rage was very bad on this test at times. When the white misses happened, they happened in strings of 4-6 in a row, leaving me rage starved for 8-10 seconds. They always seemed to happen when shout was on CD. Unlucky? probably.

Looking back at my testing, going full 27% hit seems to be the best for rage generation and dps. This could be different in a raid with the extra haste buffs that could make up for white misses in the rage generation. My guild is taking the week off to let everyone get their addons and specs figured out so I can't post raid stats.

I hope this helps everyone.

#13 jbhdhf

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 03:56 AM

(Wall of text, I'm sorry)

I did a 5 million damage test (came out to 8.5 min)

I also had a flask and food buff (+40 str) left over from an instance that I couldn't click off.

Buffs:
Shout, +40 str food, endless rage flask
Stats:
AP 6077
Haste: 20.92%
Hit: 747 (27.29%)
Crit: 38.10%
Exp: 26/26
Mastery: 8

10k dps

HS 29.4%
Melee 28.5%
BT 23.4%
RB 13.2%
Slam 3.8%
Chaos Bane 1.7%

I'm going to change my gear away from hit and go heavy haste and post my results.
Edit:

Test 2 Heavy Haste (9.5 Min):
Buffs:
Shout, +40 str food, endless rage flask
HS 29.4%
Melee 28.5%
BT 23.4%
RB 13.2%
Slam 3.8%
Chaos Bane 1.7%

DPS 9.5k

Melee 28.8%
HS 26.1%
BT 24.4%
RB 15.1%
Slam 3.7%
Chaos Bane 1.8%

Rage gen was much worse during the 2nd test. Missing the white swings was killing it.

Edit 2:
Test 3 Regular stats (8.5 min):

Buffs:
Shout, +40 str food, endless rage flask
Stats:
AP 6077
Haste: 21.74%
Hit: 292 (12.49%)
Crit: 44.94%
Exp: 26/26
Mastery: 8

9.2k

HS 28.4%
Melee 28.3%
BT 24.9%
RB 12.4%
Slam 4.2%
Chaos Bane 1.8%

I removed all reforging from my gear and it is almost back in the state it was before I started the testing. I still have a few hit gems in place. Rage was very bad on this test at times. When the white misses happened, they happened in strings of 4-6 in a row, leaving me rage starved for 8-10 seconds. They always seemed to happen when shout was on CD. Unlucky? probably.

Looking back at my testing, going full 27% hit seems to be the best for rage generation and dps. This could be different in a raid with the extra haste buffs that could make up for white misses in the rage generation. My guild is taking the week off to let everyone get their addons and specs figured out so I can't post raid stats.

I hope this helps everyone.



Right now slam is a dps loss. Try this priority and see what you get:

BT-RB-BT-free

with HS as much as possible.

In free zones use BS, and the enrage inducers to maintain enrage.

With this rotation so far i have tried with my original post of stats: 11.3 k dps
Reforging my haste to hit: 10.8k dps ( i felt rage starved)

I'm going to try haste next and see how it goes.

I believe the plan is to reduce the rage cost of slam on bloodsurge proc to zero. As of now SLAM IS A DPS LOSS, unquestionably.

#14 redsmash

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 04:18 AM

I went back to the hit gear and did the rotation without Slam. Pulled 10.5k. I'm also going to test to see which trinkets I have work the best (H WFS, DBW, and STS) All three are reforged to crit/hit. All the test I did before were using DBW and STS.

edit: Forgot to mention that was without food/flask I had up earlier. Heading into a ToC 25. I'll post thoughts after.

#15 jbhdhf

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 05:44 AM

so after several hours of repeated testing under the following conditions:

12 minute pulls
raid dummy
no debuffs on boss
battleshout + rampage

Rotation:

BT-RB-BT- FREE

HS as much as possible with out delaying BT, and using free zones for shout, and recklessness


After varying Hit, Haste, and crit while keeping everything else constant I have come to the following conclusion:

At least for unbuffed dpsing on raid dummy with my gear, reforging for maximum Hit is better than crit or haste.

I was able to sustain 11.5k dps with the following stats:

AP 5779
Haste 14.55%
Hit 26.7%
crit 47.87%
expertise 26/23


In a raid environment, with melee haste buff this could change, but I believe it will not. Additionally, when the planned slam change goes live, this may change.

For now this is what i've decided to go with. Try it out if you like.

#16 Taxton

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 08:22 AM

Fury

* Slam now deals 150% weapon damage, up from 100%.
* Whirlwind now deals 75% weapon damage, up from 50%.
* Raging Blow now deals 150% weapon damage, up from 100%.
* Bloodthirst now scales from 75% of Attack Power, up from 50%.
* Bloodsurge now also makes Slam free to cast.

Seems slam costs no rage while Bloodsurge is proccing. Still hard to weave it in the rotation, but for 0 rage it's cleary a dps gain if RB en BT are on CD.

Was pulling a constant 10k dps on HC dummy with 25,5% hit, 48% crit, 5780 AP self buffed. Using HS off CD and giving RB a prio to BT. Reforged all haste into hit.

#17 jbhdhf

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 08:27 AM

At the moment slam is not zero rage cost on bloodsurge proc. At least not on my server.

I expect it will be tomorrow. I intend to keep my rotation the same, but of course will use the free slam procs in the free gaps in my bt-rb rotation. Since slam procs of BT, the hit-haste-crit relationship should be unchanged.

#18 bubuman

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 09:53 AM

On a 10 minute dance session with the heroic dummy i pulled 10.6k dps. There was no debuffs on the dummy and the only buffs i had on were self buffs- battle shout and rampage. These were my stats at the time:

AP: 5853 (after battle shout)
Haste 426 (12.99%)
Hit: 494 (19.06%)
Crit: 50.61%

Abilities percentiles:
BT:27.9%
Melee: 26.1%
HS: 24.6%
RB: 16.6%
Slam : 1.8%
Chaos Bane: 1.7%
Heroic Throw: 1.3%

Slam was the least of my priority as I've observed it to be very inferior right now although it might differ a little in a raid environment.
I am using DBW(264) and WFS(251). I reforged all haste into hit.

#19 redsmash

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 10:24 AM

From what I've seen, going heavy hit is showing better dps. Also not using slam is showing improvements in dps as well.

I guess it comes down to how much %haste is good to have for steady rage gen or is it just better to keep the crit high?
My test were keeping as much haste as possible and I see others using heavy crit and getting slightly higher numbers. I plan on doing testing today when I get back home this afternoon, but it's just something else for us to check out.

#20 Phyton

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 01:02 PM

10 minutes / heroic dummy / 5.5 milion damage => 9k dps

No Shadowmourne and stucked with Wrathful Gladiator's Bracers of Triumph (never looted plated bracers, was using Toskk's Maximized Wristguards)

AP: 4979
Haste: 10.19%
Hit: 27.13%
Crit: 43.93%
Experise: 27/27


% from abilities:


HS (count 150) - 29.6%
Melee (count 480) - 29%
BT (count 163) - 26%
RB (count 142) - 13.3%

Using DBW(264) and WFS(251) also reforged almost all haste into hit

Rotation: BT-RB-BT-free + HS anytime is available prioritising it over BT (using free for berseker; recklessness; BS and DW)

Still kinda sad about 9k.....but 2 days ago was pulling only 6k, so i'm assuming we already where buffed on EU servers.




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