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Update from Tigole on 2.1


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#21 Guest_aarkh_*

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:53 PM

Yay, communication.

It's nice to see something finally, and who knows, maybe these will be the magical fixes to everything. It still doesn't change the fact that they need a whole community of players to scream at them before they get to changing something as mindbogglingly out of control as consumables. They should be seeing these problems beforehand on their own.

Maybe with 2.1 WoW the raid game will again be just as attractive as it used to be, but this whole ordeal has left me just a little distrustful of their conduct in the future.

#22 Playered

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:54 PM

Chest goes from ilvl 101~ to ilvl 109~ (unknown bonus armor ontop?)
Would of been better to see an example of an item worse for wear on budget than this, but still its an atleast a step in the right direction, add another 10sta and some bonus armor and it comes quite nicely close to budget.

Edit: doesn't seem to be any bonus armor on it (odd?), anyway so its still 10 ilvls short, but better than 20

@ Malan they need to create a dummy attunement method instead of one that currently exists is all, BT however they can start without adding it in so people can test the content. I very highly doubt there will be an ability to -leap frog- up past the old content to get there, unless ofcourse they make you unable to brute force it thanks to the consumable nerf/itemization buff.

#23 Praetorian

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:54 PM

I'm sure it will be on the test server for at least a month, let alone it actually getting to the test server.

Yeah, I don't see how we're going to see this on the live servers until May, even if it hits the PTR tomorrow, and the tone of his post overall doesn't suggest that the PTR is going up tomorrow. But it's sure as hell better than silence.

His post is dated 04/02/2007 11:04:22 AM PDT so yeah, I don't think it's a joke, besides why would it be, it's not funny.

Are you kidding me?

#24 groktar

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:56 PM

Seems to me this means that BT does not have significant keying process, whereas Hyjal of course does since it requires Vash and Kael kills. The keying being the part they'd have to "look into" in order to put Hyjal on the PTR and allow *everyone* access to it.


Or they could spawn Jimmy McWeaksauce in Shatt and have him sell BT keys.

#25 Grogzor

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:56 PM

Now what they need to do is give rogues a Finishing move that is like

per combo point makes a mob more susceptible to physical damage by 2/4/6/8/10% for 20 secs, that would Cure ALL PROBLEMS IN WOW.

But anyway, nice changes to that warrior piece.

#26 Daeus

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:57 PM

The patch will be on PTR’s in the upcoming weeks.


Sigh the Weeks at the end makes me cry

As we’ve stated before, we made a lot of improvements to endgame gear progression.


I'm trying to gauge this reponse as well the example he gave is regarding t5 Gear . Possible for a revamp of exsisting Gruul Lair/Kara? Wasn't quite clear on that part

#27 Mosh

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:57 PM

Allow me to make my first contentless post on EJ please: FUCKING AWESOME.

#28 Vontre

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:59 PM

Allow me to make my first contentless post on EJ please: FUCKING AWESOME.


QFT!

(we now return you to your regularly scheduled debate and banter)
Raiding is full of challenge. Sometimes there is fire. You have to not be in the fire.

#29 torrent495

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:59 PM

Good to hear. Yeah, weekly or bi-weekly developer notes seem like a good idea with no downside. The reaction to Tigole's posts whenver he deigns to make them are almost always universally positive, anyway.

#30 Cryect

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 06:59 PM

It'll be really interesting to see how this affects melee DPS positions. I'll have to admit that I'm slightly worried about the fury warrior-rogue dynamic, just like pre-2.0. Our fury wars are already unmatchable by melee when paired with a shammy.


I'm confused how your fury warriors can put out that much DPS without pulling aggro? Are they using Tranquil Air instead of WF for this group? You're talking DPS on the order 1.1k DPS to really past rogues which is going to be very sketchy on aggro for a class with no ways to remove it besides various 2 minute cooldown items.

#31 Playered

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:00 PM

Allow me to make my first contentless post on EJ please: FUCKING AWESOME.


I wouldn't go as far as to say awsome untill some more information is known, but its still pleasing to atleast hear something finally if nothing else :)

#32 Quigon

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:00 PM

Also, we’ve changed the NPC cleave mechanic so that it’s now a frontal cone ability rather than a 360 degree chain attack.


This was ambiguous in his original post. It sounded like it would be frontal cone, but still chain, and therefore making it non directional anyway, since it ALWAYS will bounce off the MT, and then chain behind the boss anyway. This change is an exceptional one... and puts cleave in the category of "making sense." I love this change personally.

For example, the trash should be significantly easier to clear in most cases – and take less time. Also, we’ve lengthened the time between respawn on a lot of the trash.

---

We’ve also fixed some bugs that were allowing the trash to respawn after the boss for a certain area was dead.


After you frag tidewalker murlocs near the room "despawn." Yet they respawn after soft resetting or waiting 2 hours... clearly a bug. Killing tidewalker with this change would allow for a nice safe spot to run into and summon into his room for attempts on the next two bosses (or likewise from leotheras).

These are obviously good changes. Further, this may allow for longer attempts with scalding water on Lurker below for newer guilds.

We’re making substantial changes to the way certain consumables work . In particular, Flasks and Elixirs are going to undergo major changes.


Obviously this depends on the implementation, but I think we can assume there is something to the german client/poster's stacked implications. Still, this is so ambiguous its hard to say anything. You can actually "limit" consumables, and make matters worse... just like halving raid size, and stacking is twice as important.


I hate to be the standard reply to blue that "this is great news!" And just carry on like the world has been saved because we finally heard something.

But 1. We finally have some decent communication, and one of the largest issues (trash), is being addressed.
2. Melee tuning will extend beyond just the simplistic and mostly worthless cleave changes (although that needed a fix also).
3. Consumables are up in the air, ultimate tuning is up in the air.

Depending on tuning, many guilds may still be left in the dust. We shall see. We're limited by the amount of content available, and as I said, and as the thread about what I said has discussed over and over and over... if you have a lack of content, only creativity in using what you already have (read: nerfing the hard stuff, or buffing the easy stuff) is how you keep that progression for everyone.

I'm assuming they're going to nerf SSC... its probably a valid assumption considering Hydross is way too hard for Joe Raider; sorry Joe - no offense.

This is still a sweeping problem, but not one that can be readily hotfixed, as it is more of a content concern, unless they really just fix everything in one go... unlikely, but we've seen similar tuning to raid zones in rapid fire.

Finally, the itemization is clearly better... but its really nowhere near good enough for a T5 chest imho. Its a step in the right direction... a "good start." However, there are so many items that are straight to shard... Hydross loot for instance... good lord. Its just a shame to down a fun boss, and have that enjoyment ruined by looking at loot that is just absolutely terrible, and literally not an upgrade for anyone.

Anyway, a good start is the best way to summarize this. Communication at blizzard is generally sorely lacking, so we all applaud at even the slightest amount of feedback. But there is so much to be done. As praetorian said, nothing in 2.1 will address everything, its going to be a bit of a road. Still, things could certainly be going faster...

Sounds like bureaucracy to some extent... The bureaucracy involved in shitting this expansion up in the raid game should be reallocated downward, and new blood put in control of those resources. They can, even with the expansion, have these things tuned and in on time. This HAS been done better in the past... by them, and others. I know blizzard employees work hard and all that, but come on - if Tigole has the right answer and isn't allowed to implement it, then fire or get rid of that blockade. If Tigole doesn't have the right answer, then he's the problem. But there is clearly a problem, and ignoring it is going to lead to this same shitstorm over and over again. I know the general reaction once everything is OK is to forget about it and call it even. But I just think this cycle is ridiculous... it kills the game, it causes people to quit... friends and family that quit long ago would still be here had things been tuned from the get-go. Lots to do at R&D... good luck Jeff. Nice post.

#33 Coriolis

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:01 PM

I'm really hoping the ommision of potions from the list for consumables to be changed was unintended.

#34 Latham

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:01 PM

He should have added in a nice "Thanks to the raiding community for beta testing our instances, we'll try harder next time". I wish the changes to the instances were going to be implemented sooner since they had plenty of time already.

#35 levk

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:02 PM

Chest goes from ilvl 101~ to ilvl 109~ (unknown bonus armor ontop?)
Would of been better to see an example of an item worse for wear on budget than this, but still its an atleast a step in the right direction.


Yeah I'm hoping they look into stuff like ribbon of sacrifice and pendant of the violet eye.

Are you kidding me?


Well other than "non-epic-dropping non-bosses" I don't see anything.

I'm really hoping the ommision of potions from the list for consumables to be changed was unintended.


What can they really do about this though? Either lengthen the pot cooldown or retune the fights to be shorter. Latter is much harder ofcourse.

#36 Daeus

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:04 PM

I'm really hoping the ommision of potions from the list for consumables to be changed was unintended.


I believe they count Potions as Healing/Mana pot and not the Super healing power or etc

Elixer would be the umbrella for all potion givings Artifical increase to player power is my guess

#37 Grogzor

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:05 PM

I'm confused how your fury warriors can put out that much DPS without pulling aggro? Are they using Tranquil Air instead of WF for this group? You're talking DPS on the order 1.1k DPS to really past rogues which is going to be very sketchy on aggro for a class with no ways to remove it besides various 2 minute cooldown items.


Berserking Stance + BoS = FTW And since you have to exceed 10% of the MTs threat to pull...start out slow and scale up...not too mention if they are behind they get to spam execute at 19%.

#38 Docjowles

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:06 PM

Good to hear. Yeah, weekly or bi-weekly developer notes seem like a good idea with no downside. The reaction to Tigole's posts whenver he deigns to make them are almost always universally positive, anyway.


The usual argument against this is that they don't want to get people's hopes up til something is set in stone. Every once in a while, Blizzard will post an idea or a timetable, that for whatever reason ends up getting scrapped. Then, .01 seconds after the proposed deadline, the forums erupt in a chorus of "ZOMG LIEZ!!!!" posts. After getting burned by this a few times, they've chosen to swing to the other end of the spectrum and just keep entirely silent.

Although I personally think it would be awesome to read regular updates from the dev team, I can see where they're coming from.

#39 Latham

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:06 PM

Hopefully they just make certain flasks/elixirs not stack together and then nerf the dps required to down the bosses. So instead of using a flask + 4-5 pots per attempt most raiders can use a flask in place of the dps pots or dps pots instead of a flask.

#40 boomix

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:07 PM

Quite amusing to see such huge range of reactions in one thread. I think we all still hold out hope for this patch to be step in right direction and not a small but huge "fraking" step. Yet majority holds back from celebrating because we've seen patches in the past.
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