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Update from Tigole on 2.1


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#41 Coriolis

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:09 PM

What can they really do about this though? Either lengthen the pot cooldown or retune the fights to be shorter. Latter is much harder ofcourse.


You just said it right there, increase the cooldown. Make it a 5-10 min cooldown - something you'd use in an emergency or maybe once per fight, not chain-chugged as a matter of course. Unfortunately this may require retuning a bunch of encounters. The other option is to make them alot cheaper so that chain-chugging them is cheap, personally I'm against this implementation but it would probably be easier from blizz's point of view.

#42 Playered

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:10 PM

Hopefully they just make certain flasks/elixirs not stack together and then nerf the dps required to down the bosses. So instead of using a flask + 4-5 pots per attempt most raiders can use a flask in place of the dps pots or dps pots instead of a flask.


That wouldn't really be enough to justify "but for now, expect big changes to Flasks and Elixirs." personally, however trying to work out what Blizz means when they say something like this is often a pathway to delusion.

#43 tekmatt

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:10 PM

Interesting, look at his wording at the bottom of the post about Black Temple and Hyjal.

vs

Seems to me this means that BT does not have significant keying process, whereas Hyjal of course does since it requires Vash and Kael kills. The keying being the part they'd have to "look into" in order to put Hyjal on the PTR and allow *everyone* access to it.


You can't really draw conclusions off keying process of Black Temple from a post saying you can test it on the PTR.

#44 Malan

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:13 PM

You can't really draw conclusions off keying process of Black Temple from a post saying you can test it on the PTR.

You can't really "draw conclusions" off anything in that post, but hey, here we all are, doing just that.

#45 Antiarc

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:16 PM

I'm confused how your fury warriors can put out that much DPS without pulling aggro? Are they using Tranquil Air instead of WF for this group? You're talking DPS on the order 1.1k DPS to really past rogues which is going to be very sketchy on aggro for a class with no ways to remove it besides various 2 minute cooldown items.


Druid main tank and a bit of lead time gives the warrior a great bit of buffer. Salvation is assumed, as well. KTM makes most of this sort of thing relatively trivial. At 1.1k DPS, assuming a straight 1-1 DPS:TPS ratio, berserker stance + salvation puts the warrior at 616 TPS. Our druid hangs around in the 700+ range pretty easily.

As a rogue, I VERY rarely have to use my threat control abilities in raiding environments. I generally only have to if I am undisciplined and jump the gun too early, which is a player problem, not a class limitation.

Edit: The only place I can think of where Vanish's threat wipe is a huge advantage every single time is on the Curator during Evoc due to the non-scaling nature of warrior tank threat as damage taken increases. Vanish just before the Evoc lets me pop AR and beat the hell out of him with reckless abandon. A warrior couldn't do that as carelessly.
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#46 levk

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:16 PM

You just said it right there, increase the cooldown. Make it a 5-10 min cooldown - something you'd use in an emergency or maybe once per fight, not chain-chugged as a matter of course. Unfortunately this may require retuning a bunch of encounters. The other option is to make them alot cheaper so that chain-chugging them is cheap, personally I'm against this implementation but it would probably be easier from blizz's point of view.


Wow 5-10 is pretty radical. I was thinking 3 is big enough. I'm actually thinking it would effect stuff like heroics more than raiding.

#47 Vontre

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:16 PM

Uhhhh... I linked this to a friend and they informed me of this.

An error was encountered while processing your request

[error.topicDeleted]

Topic.. deleted?

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#48 Shifft

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:17 PM

Thread was just deleted......why?

Edit: Beat to the punch =/

#49 Theras

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:17 PM

You can't really "draw conclusions" off anything in that post, but hey, here we all are, doing just that.


What he's saying is that previous locked instances did not require a key on previous PTR's. For example, we didn't have to execute the War of the Shifting Sands on the test realm in order to test through the Twin Emps, and we didn't need to turn in a truck full of Nexus Crystals to test Naxxramas. It's something we cannot make assumptions about because inadequate information is present, and previous raid instances have gone either way.

#50 Trouble

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:17 PM

The original post by Tigole has been deleted, presumably due to the massive amount of flames in the thread. Hopefully it is being reposted in order to be locked off the bat.

#51 Kalman

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:18 PM

What he's saying is that previous locked instances did not require a key on previous PTR's. For example, we didn't have to execute the War of the Shifting Sands on the test realm in order to test through the Twin Emps, and we didn't need to turn in a truck full of Nexus Crystals to test Naxxramas. It's something we cannot make assumptions about because inadequate information is present, and previous raid instances have gone either way.


We didn't need to turn in nexus crystals for Naxx *only* because they added an NPC with an alternate keying quest.

Re: AQ40 - since there was no *personal* keying requirement, no conclusion can be drawn.
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#52 Playered

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:19 PM

Yes odd... perhaps we scared Tigole off after not being completly smitten with the moderate update and hes gone all emo on us and removed it :P

the emote is /blizzllfixit.

The wording that it will only improve 'Rogue DPS' is wierd, we know it will boost all melee DPS but I suppose its just pointed out to the ones who were most effected/complained the loudest.

#53 Cryect

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:21 PM

Berserking Stance + BoS = FTW And since you have to exceed 10% of the MTs threat to pull...start out slow and scale up...not too mention if they are behind they get to spam execute at 19%.


Those were obvious... and don't account for being able to do more DPS than rogues without pulling aggro. Heh I watch our enhancement shaman go splat all the time from 800-850 DPS range which currently have aggro mechanics broken for melee so don't have the extra 20% melee reduction (meaning aorund 1050 DPS should be possible if you do).

Then again I'm basing this on Morogrim which has a few threat issues due to Tidal Wave slowing the MT's autoattack so any fight not aggro sensitive at all I guess it would be possible.

#54 exarkun

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:22 PM

The topic appears to have been deleted... Was this a mistake?

#55 zeidrich

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:24 PM

Oh well,

Nowhere in that post was there any indication that there would be any improvement in prot spec for paladins.

Looks like it will be back to holy for me again come PTRs. /sadpanda

#56 niska

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:25 PM

Not releasing the SSC nerfs sooner as hotfixes or smaller patches is disheartening. For the slew of decent guilds that have only now entered SSC riding the Gruul nerf wave, how does this not send the message of "farm tuned content and pvp for a month".

That said, with tuned content done in 2 days, we'll probably end up powering through whatever SSC we can while the getting is good. "Pre-nerf" is the new heroic mode.

#57 Antiarc

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:25 PM

Those were obvious... and don't account for being able to do more DPS than rogues without pulling aggro. Heh I watch our enhancement shaman go splat all the time from 800-850 DPS range which currently have aggro mechanics broken for melee so don't have the extra 20% melee reduction (meaning aorund 1050 DPS should be possible if you do).

Then again I'm basing this on Morogrim which has a few threat issues due to Tidal Wave slowing the MT's autoattack so any fight not aggro sensitive at all I guess it would be possible.


Isn't Unleashed Rage still generating bugged threat for shaman, though?

On an aggro sensitive fight, yeah, wars will have to really pace themselves. On fights that don't slow down the tank's threat generation, though, they can pretty much go nuts as long as they're aware.
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#58 Grogzor

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:26 PM

The topic appears to have been deleted... Was this a mistake?


Reminds me of the Navy, they realized that the post was raising morale so they had to get rid of it.

#59 Dyalad

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:26 PM

The topic has been deleted. I wonder why. They changed their mind? Too much infos? Hope they will repost it.

#60 Nite_Moogle

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 07:27 PM

Good stuff, and I'm sure there's more to the patch but a little disappointed to see no mention of further class tweaking. There are still a few really gimp trees that could use a little love, but if they're all busting their chops getting BT ready to go and fixing the problems in the current instances I can live with it.




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