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Resto Guide (updated for Cataclysm release)


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#21 tracer

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:18 PM

Speaking of Spirit:

It's pretty obvious that the mana regeneration mechanics have changed significantly in 4.0.1. The "five second rule" seems to have gone completely out the window in favor of a "mana regeneration in combat" vs. "mana regeneration out of combat" model. Furthermore, I have a low level mage character with no gear at all, and she still regenerates a little bit of mana while in combat (she'd have regenerated 0 mana under the old 5-second-rule system).

Is there some place I can go to read up on the exact mechanics of how mana regeneration works in 4.0?

#22 RobotChicken

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:25 PM

1015 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9455593168649% haste
30.9455593168649 / 100 = 0.309455593168649 + 1 = 1.309455593168649
1.309455593168649 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37502287282708
1.37502287282708 - 1 = 0.37502287282708 * 100 = 37.502287282708% haste (37.5% being the breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37502287282708 = 2.18178188834919 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18178188834919 = 5.50009149130833 ticks (x.5 ticks being the breaking point to add a whole new tick to the duration)
5.50009149130833 rounds UP to 6 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.50009149130833 * 6 = 13.0906913300951 sec duration HoT

To further emphasize my point that 1015 IS the true breaking point, here are the calculations at 1014 haste rating
1014 haste rating / 32.79 rating per 1% = 30.9240622140897% haste
30.9240622140897 / 100 = 0.309240622140897 + 1 = 1.309240622140897
1.309240622140897 * 1.05(5% haste raid buff) = 1.37470265324794
1.37470265324794 - 1 = 0.37470265324794 * 100 = 37.470265324794% haste (BELOW the 37.5% breaking point)
3 sec RJ tick * 1.37470265324794 = 2.18229010681841 sec new hasted tick time
12 sec duration / 2.18229010681841 = 5.49881061299176 ticks (BELOW the x.5 breaking point, thus NOT adding a whole new tick to the duration)
5.49881061299176 rounds DOWN to 5 ticks with the new HoT system making this RJ a 5.49881061299176 * 5 = 10.9114505340921 sec duration HoT

I hope this clears up some confusion.


I don't think there was any doubt that 1015 is the true breakpoint, but people kept finding that in-game you sometimes would not get a 6th tick even at 1015 haste with the 5% haste buff, but at 1016 the chance was near 100%. That's the only reason the guide recommends 1016. I keep hearing something about a rounding error, which I assume is meant as an in-game one, so there's nothing we can do about that. Best to just be safe and pick up 1016.

#23 Albel

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:28 PM

Since was mentioned, I find it privy to point out that this trinket is probably only good if the direct healing portion of Rejuv from GotEM counts as a "direct heal," which I am not sure of. Someone pointed out to me that the old set bonus that did the same thing counted as a direct heal, in which case this trinket is probably BiS now. On the other hand, I can't test this because I don't know any other trinkets that proc off direct healing off the top of my head, and they aren't easy to search for.

I did some testing with a guild mate. He used the trinket and chaincasted reju on me. I didn't get the trinket-hot. Naturally it did work with regrowth. In other words: The initial tick, which is added to rejuvenation if you've skilled GotEM, is not a direct heal.

#24 Lightflower

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:34 PM

That graph shows the HPS of one Renew/Rejuve increasing linearly while your haste increases. Pretty much every break point allows you to get one more person covered in case of blanketing or just gives you a free GCD, if you want.

If I'm wrong, could someone point it to me please.


HPCT increases at a break point and you are correct that it may be possible to cover one additional person - that's part of the reason why we spent so much time discussing HPCT when the Glyph of RR came out. However, that effect only occurs at a break point and is the same increase each time meaning that the overall effect displays diminishing returns when compared to haste rating.

#25 RobotChicken

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 09:37 PM

I did some testing with a guild mate. He used the trinket and chaincasted reju on me. I didn't get the trinket-hot. Naturally it did work with regrowth. In other words: The initial tick, which is added to rejuvenation if you've skilled GotEM, is not a direct heal.


I'm actually testing this right now with the Forethought Talisman and I can confirm your findings. Therefore, my only conclusion is that we should still pass on the Scale to other healers first, but shouldn't look at it as junk anymore.

#26 cuddlekin

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:47 PM

I don't think there was any doubt that 1015 is the true breakpoint, but people kept finding that in-game you sometimes would not get a 6th tick even at 1015 haste with the 5% haste buff, but at 1016 the chance was near 100%. That's the only reason the guide recommends 1016. I keep hearing something about a rounding error, which I assume is meant as an in-game one, so there's nothing we can do about that. Best to just be safe and pick up 1016.

oh okies, my bad then! hadn't heard that so thank you. damn you blizzard! get your own math right :<

#27 Zhee, EU

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 10:38 AM

Thank you Hamlet, for a long awaited OP of the Tree healing.

However, reading through it I stumbled over this:

Engineering gives 27 spellpower to cloak and Hyperspeed Accelerators to gloves, that latter being largely useless for us.


I wonder why you deem the added 240 Haste (every one minute) largely useless, seeing as Haste is a top 3 priority?

The cooldown is ridicullously short, so with a proper spamming and a little planning you'll be at max Haste nearly all the time. Taking the fact that the Engineering gadget adds with an ordinary Enchant, I'd say its a great bonus.

It also gives a bit more flexibility when you look to Reforge, you dont have to be at the magic 1016, since you will hit it every 1 minute.

(Ok you shouldn't take Engineering just for the sake of this one bonus, but saying it is largely useless is a shame).

Or did I miss something completely?
<3

#28 Kluian

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:11 PM

I'm actually testing this right now with the Forethought Talisman and I can confirm your findings. Therefore, my only conclusion is that we should still pass on the Scale to other healers first, but shouldn't look at it as junk anymore.


It's just as good for a druid as other healers. Considering it is the highest INT trinket available to us, I also produce roughly the same healing from the proc as a shaman and holy priest in our guild. All it takes is a few regrowths when using the proc and you'll get the same effect as any other healer.

#29 Gasillio

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:21 PM

I have a question about Tree of Life form. In a situation with a spike of raid damage (example: transition phase of Lich King heroic), is it worth it to use the buffed Lifebloom by attempting to blanket the raid or just use the instant-Regrowth to heal all who get low? I was using Wild Growth on cooldown, too, because it is buffed as well. But it still has a cooldown, and I'm wondering what to do for the rest of the time.

#30 RobotChicken

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 03:10 PM

I have a question about Tree of Life form. In a situation with a spike of raid damage (example: transition phase of Lich King heroic), is it worth it to use the buffed Lifebloom by attempting to blanket the raid or just use the instant-Regrowth to heal all who get low? I was using Wild Growth on cooldown, too, because it is buffed as well. But it still has a cooldown, and I'm wondering what to do for the rest of the time.


I believe the idea is to continue to just use Rejuvs, and if someone takes a spike of damage just use Regrowth on them. Spreading Lifeblooms across the raid isn't a huge help, I don't think, but stacking it on your tanks can't hurt.

#31 Dav1l

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:01 AM

I'm actually testing this right now with the Forethought Talisman and I can confirm your findings. Therefore, my only conclusion is that we should still pass on the Scale to other healers first, but shouldn't look at it as junk anymore.

It was never junk before. Not only it had the highest spellpower of all the trinkets in the environment where mana wasn't a problem at all, but it also made some sort of effective healing (unlike Purified Lunar Dust or Solace). But that's not really the point.

It is now BiS without any doubt, and I don't understand why would you pass a BiS item to any other class. It's 21 Intellect raw increase from Dust and an average of 2-3% effective healing. If you had any problems whatsoever using it before the patch (you had to make sure that Swiftmend wasn't overhealing to gain hps over a Rejuv cast), you don't any more. If you can cover melees with Efflorescence for a hps increase, you should also use a trinket. If you can successfully land a Regrowth without overhealing on someone withing the range of trinket to proc (while the 'use' is still up after Swiftmend) on 10+ people, it's even better.

I have a question about Tree of Life form. In a situation with a spike of raid damage (example: transition phase of Lich King heroic), is it worth it to use the buffed Lifebloom by attempting to blanket the raid or just use the instant-Regrowth to heal all who get low? I was using Wild Growth on cooldown, too, because it is buffed as well. But it still has a cooldown, and I'm wondering what to do for the rest of the time.

It's probably better to blanket hot during transitions, put up Efflorescence on melee, and let shamans/priests/paladins to patch up people dipping low. Damage is quite steady, if the raid is positioned properly, so nobody should be in danger of death at any time.

As for our raid, me and the other druid have a cooldown rotation on phase 2. We are using tranquility + tree + tranquility + tree on every Valk spawn (we didn't get 4th Valk spawn last time, but that was the plan). Infest and Soul Ripper, while other healers are dragged, are the most dangerous mechanics of the encounter. There's no other way for people to die. That's where additional healing is handy, not the trivial transition, healing on which can be solved by proper positioning of the raid in general.

EDIT: you want to use the Tree and not Tranquility on 2nd and 4th Valk spawns because you can't afford standing still and channelling when there's a danger of Defile landing on you.

#32 P_H

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:40 AM

Thank you Hamlet, for a long awaited OP of the Tree healing.

However, reading through it I stumbled over this:



I wonder why you deem the added 240 Haste (every one minute) largely useless, seeing as Haste is a top 3 priority?

The cooldown is ridicullously short, so with a proper spamming and a little planning you'll be at max Haste nearly all the time. Taking the fact that the Engineering gadget adds with an ordinary Enchant, I'd say its a great bonus.

It also gives a bit more flexibility when you look to Reforge, you dont have to be at the magic 1016, since you will hit it every 1 minute.

(Ok you shouldn't take Engineering just for the sake of this one bonus, but saying it is largely useless is a shame).

Or did I miss something completely?
<3


The issue with the engineering Haste cooldown enchant is precisely that it does not have a 100% uptime. If you are below 1016 haste without the enchant popped, then you will be casting weaker Rejuvs 2/3s of the time. Considering it's not difficult at all to reach 1016 haste with ilvl277 gear, and is still practical with a mix of 277s and 264s, there's no real reason to rely on a cooldown to attain that extra tick for only 20 seconds out of every minute.

It's true that Engineering isn't all about the Haste cooldown enchant, but Hamlet's review of the profession bonuses examined them with raw throughput in mind. From that perspective, Engineering is a weaker enchant, unfortunately.

#33 Rijndael

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:55 AM

I don't understand why people don't like haste cooldowns in 4.0. Whenever heroism goes off, my throughput goes up, and it's not just because there are extra ticks to rejuv which lets you cover more people, it's also because each rejuv's HPS goes up. Same with Nature's Grace, and same with any other haste proc.

#34 slourette

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 06:18 PM

I don't understand why people don't like haste cooldowns in 4.0. Whenever heroism goes off, my throughput goes up, and it's not just because there are extra ticks to rejuv which lets you cover more people, it's also because each rejuv's HPS goes up. Same with Nature's Grace, and same with any other haste proc.


Why should we care about rejuv's HPS? The only time I care about rejuv's HPS is when I run out of targets to rejuv and I have to use a different spell. That has happens for me on exactly two fights: dreamwalker and saurfang. For everything else, rejuv HPS is meanless. To be honest, I would prefer a rejuv with lower HPS, because then it would have a longer duration, allowing me to cover more people. Stacking haste past the breakpoint actually lowers the number of people you can cover with rejuv, since the rejuvs last for a smaller amount of time. It also means there is a higher chance we can benefit from mastery.

For me, haste past the breakpoint only has value because we use other spells besides rejuv, which all benefit from a reduced cast time.

EDIT: On the topic of Nature's Grace: Since 9% haste would be enough to cap our GCD (less if you are stacking haste past the breakpoint!), at the cost of 1 GCD = 1.09 seconds of cast time (insect swarm/moonfire) we would gain 14 * 0.09 = 1.26 seconds of cast time, which results in a maxium gain of 1 GCD every 6.4 minutes, assuming no rejuv usage. Since rejuv is already GCD capped and our most used spell, this will almost always result in a HPCT loss.

#35 P_H

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:12 PM

I don't understand why people don't like haste cooldowns in 4.0. Whenever heroism goes off, my throughput goes up, and it's not just because there are extra ticks to rejuv which lets you cover more people, it's also because each rejuv's HPS goes up. Same with Nature's Grace, and same with any other haste proc.


Extra ticks in your Rejuv from Haste does not allow you to cover more people. Haste packs in the ticks more closely together, so our Rejuv's duration will always be in the ballpark of 12s. It will, however, add to its HPS and its healing per cast.

If you're given a tank healing role, then I could see use for the Engineering cooldown. Having a significant Haste boost every minute would be great for our abysmally long Healing Touch. However, even with the cooldown, you should still try to reach the 1016 Haste break point from gear and gems alone regardless, I think.

#36 oopsminded

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 10:32 AM

Extra ticks in your Rejuv from Haste does not allow you to cover more people. Haste packs in the ticks more closely together, so our Rejuv's duration will always be in the ballpark of 12s. It will, however, add to its HPS and its healing per cast.

Between 1014 and 1016 haste, while the HPS of one Rejuve goes up by a tiny tiny value, you can actually cover one more target. Probably true for the next haste breakpoint as well, but increasingly difficult as the difference in Rejuve duration around those breakpoints starts to go bellow that of the GCD.

All of the above courtesy of this graph:
Posted Image

#37 Greentouch

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:34 PM

Many of you seem to be missing the main reason the RJ breakpoint is so important. Whether it's from mana constraints at 85, or gcd constraints on live, you can only cast so many RJ's per fight. Going from 1014 to 1016 haste won't enable you to CAST anymore RJ's. However it does increase every single one of the RJ's you cast total healing, and more importantly (at 85) hpm by 20% due to an extra tic.

20% healing and 20% more HPM is the entire issue. You might have 1 more person covered, due to the duration increase, but that doesn't mean you are casting any more RJ's, so its not that which is adding much of the healing.

#38 Tassdrummer

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 09:58 PM

Wanted to ask what your thoughts are for the buff that this trinket Darkmoon Card: Greatness - Item - World of Warcraft got as soon as 4.0.1 hit. If we assume 45sec ICD with 15sec duration, this will give an uptime of 33% if I'm not mistaken. Wouldn't that bring the passive int of this trinket around 240ish and thus make it much more powerful than it was? Sorry for the napkin math.

#39 Hamlet

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 09:44 PM

90 + 300*15/45 would be a mean value of 190 Int. That makes it weaker than some other trinkets we have, but still usable if you don't have anything else with high Int.

#40 Fallenangel

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:06 PM

The value of Int takes a big hit when it's a proc and not a static buff, since you miss out on the initial mana pool increase. I therefore see healers favoring trinkets with passive Int and throughput / Spi procs, rather than the other way around, as long as regen is still a concern. Such are the oddities of tying together SP and mana.




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