Jump to content


Photo

Redcape's Ret DPS Spreadsheet 5.21 - 4.3 ready (Updated 01/31/12)


  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#21 Lemina

Lemina

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 01 December 2010 - 03:10 AM

Something you might consider getting added on the profession side is the Engineering Cogwheel Sockets, I think not having them devalues Engineering to much and as long as Blizzard keeps an off-set piece in the instance that is equal item level as the Engineering item with Cogwheel sockets Engineering will remain top.

Cogwheels



Cogwheels only fit into engineering helms. From what was discovered in beta, engineering helms do not contain ANY stats at all - the cogwheels basically provide the stats on the helm to make it an equivalent ilvl epic - it merely offers more flexibility for stats on your helm. Unless blizzard introduces new engineering helms every teir (which they did not in wrath), cogwheels will remain nothing more than a way to customize your entry level helm.

#22 Handled

Handled

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 103 posts

Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:02 PM

Cogwheels only fit into engineering helms. From what was discovered in beta, engineering helms do not contain ANY stats at all - the cogwheels basically provide the stats on the helm to make it an equivalent ilvl epic - it merely offers more flexibility for stats on your helm. Unless blizzard introduces new engineering helms every teir (which they did not in wrath), cogwheels will remain nothing more than a way to customize your entry level helm.


Engineering Helms don't have re-forgable stats you are correct, but 2 Cogwheels is the same as 10 gems in stat cost wise. The Engineering Helm is BiS for an offset it gives a ton of flexibility and overall has better stats than 359 T11

Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft

Sure Blizzard could drop the ball and only have Cogwheel sockets in the very first tier of gear and never again or it could they could do it right and have Engineer Patterns drop from the next tier Sunwell style.
"They thought bosses just fell over the first night because of the tag over their head, and the most important thing was how much damage they could do at all times. Newsflash - it doesn't work like that."

#23 Daler

Daler

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,216 posts

Posted 01 December 2010 - 03:13 PM

The Engineering Helm...overall has better stats than 359 T11

Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft


Except that it doesn't. 321 str in the engineering helm after gemming vs. 331 str in the tier helm using an orange gem, which also brings the secondary stat point total up to 416, exactly equivalent to 2 cogwheels. The only advantage the engineering helms bring is flexibility, but when you can reforge every slot of gear (minus some trinkets) to mess with your secondary stat point allocation, flexibility is hardly a novelty.

#24 Redcape

Redcape

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 543 posts

Posted 01 December 2010 - 04:19 PM

Yes, the Eng helms do not offer any advantage in raw stats but merely a flexibility advantage. You can easily enter them into my spreadsheet by simply putting the cogwheel stats in as regular stats so there is no need at all to model them specifically. Altering the sheet logic to recognize a variety of new 'gem' templates just so engineers can have their stats look more aesthetically pleasing is obviously not a top priority.
My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

Philosophy, Psychology and other fun stuff:

WOW and gaming in general:

#25 sjogren

sjogren

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 168 posts

Posted 04 December 2010 - 11:03 PM

I'm trying to run the exact same profile as the sheet has in simc and I'm getting about 5% less crits ... Are you sure you're accounting for the crit depression against bosses? I saw there's a cell for it in the Base Numbers tab but I can't figure out where it's actually used...

#26 Redcape

Redcape

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 543 posts

Posted 06 December 2010 - 03:03 PM

Well, you have a good point there. The crit suppression was in fact not factored in at all. I will post a new version today with that bugfix and a few other small fixes. Turns out the spell crit suppression was also not factored in and that is corrected too.
My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

Philosophy, Psychology and other fun stuff:

WOW and gaming in general:

#27 Redcape

Redcape

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 543 posts

Posted 06 December 2010 - 03:43 PM

Okay, final upload before Cataclysm goes live is up. -5.12 Notable changes:

Several small bug fixes and modelling corrections. Minimal impact. - thanks to kyroskrane, tlitp, theck
Fixed crit suppression - working now. - thanks to sjogren
Added herbalism support

Notable things that aren't there:

GoAK not modeled at all. I do not have data on the mechanics of this. If anyone wants to assist in perfecting the combat model this is the highest priority - I need to know exactly how this works. Attack speed, damage, does it inherit stats from the paladin, how does the buff stack with our other buffs (multiplicative, additive) and crit/miss/% damage benefits of the explosion effect.

Exorcism glyph may not be modeled correctly. tlitp clued me in to this, I need concrete data on how exactly it responds to % damage boosting effects, in particular 8% spell damage debuff. The impact is fairly small but it would be good to have correct data.
My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

Philosophy, Psychology and other fun stuff:

WOW and gaming in general:

#28 Calefax

Calefax

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 47 posts

Posted 16 December 2010 - 05:52 PM

Hey Redcape, I'm wondering how accurate you feel your modeling of Hurricane is in your spreadsheet. I remember in the old 4.0.1 thread you mentioned that Hurricane was trash, but also said you made some assumptions about it (I believe I remember you saying that you were assuming it worked like landslide and was 1 PPM).

The reason why I'm asking is partially because of the discussion going on in the current ret thread about being able to proc it from both melee and spells separately, and also because of my logs from my raid last night (I've been trying out hurricane, since getting a landslide enchant isn't very feasible at the moment):
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

You'll notice if you go to buffs gained that I gained the Hurricane buff 24 times in a 4 min 38 second fight, for a 59.1% uptime, which would certainly not point to something like 1 PPM (since the buff only lasts 12 seconds). Indeed it would seem that it's very possible to get a new hurricane proc while the old one is still active, refreshing it (if I had 24 separate procs for 12 seconds each, that amounts to 4 mins 48 seconds, which is longer than the fight duration so that certainly can't be right).

#29 Redcape

Redcape

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 543 posts

Posted 17 December 2010 - 04:03 PM

1 PPM is based off unhasted autoattack. I presume you were using a normal rotation which provides a huge number of opportunities for additional procs.

My model for hurricane was to assume 50% uptime on the buff, which led it to be worse than landslide, avalanche and even berserking. Having actual data is vastly better though and if the real uptime is close to 60% then hurricane is going to definitely beat out berserking, but it will still be massively inferior to avalanche and landslide. Haste is just not a good enough stat to make hurricane worthwhile.

I will update the spreadsheet to reflect that new estimate however, if anyone else can confirm a 60% uptime on hurricane in a raid environment.
My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

Philosophy, Psychology and other fun stuff:

WOW and gaming in general:

#30 Calefax

Calefax

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 47 posts

Posted 17 December 2010 - 05:33 PM

OK, thanks for the info. I guess I misunderstood what 1PPM means (I assumed it meant that you could only get a single proc per minute, kind of like how trinkets have ICDs).

Still, I am very intrigued by the fact that you can get multiple hurricane procs at the same time (I'm fairly certain that I've seen this). If the current theory is correct about there being 1 hurricane proc for melee hits and a separate one for spells (which can consequently stack some of the time), how would that affect the value of hurricane? Surely this would make it significantly better than what your model currently represents?

I tried to look at your spreadsheet and figure out where the actual modeling of hurricane was represented to see if I could just mess with it myself, but I was unable to find it.

#31 Redcape

Redcape

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 543 posts

Posted 17 December 2010 - 06:15 PM

Hurricane is so far behind the other options at 85 that even if it can maintain a double stack occasionally it is going to be the worst. My modelling is trivial, I simply assume it gives a statis 225 haste for now. I can easily change that based on experimental data.
My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

Philosophy, Psychology and other fun stuff:

WOW and gaming in general:

#32 cremor

cremor

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 154 posts

Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:11 AM

Found some bugs:

1) The latency dropdown gives me values of ".1", ".2" and so on. But my german Windows and Excel expect the decimal seperator to be a "," and I get a macro error when I try to make the rotation with latency values other than 0 or 1.
edit: Same for the delay for update dropdown, although the pre-entered value of 0.2 is correctly shown as "0,20" and works.

2) It seems like the racial expertise is not included in the stats in the main page.

edit 2:
3) If you use the "use default glyphs" button, the yellow glyphs get green.

4) The Glyph of Consecration seems to have no affect on Consecration damage or cooldown.

#33 Redcape

Redcape

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 543 posts

Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:16 PM

Thanks for the detailed report.

1. The easiest way to deal with this is to remove the data validation from that box yourself. However, I will remove the data validation for this next update anyhow to make this easier on those using your type of client.

2,3,4. Fixed now, thanks.

I have uploaded version 5.13 now which fixes these bugs. It also fixes a few other very minor bugs other people caught and adds in haste to consecrate, which is not especially relevant but was missing before.
My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

Philosophy, Psychology and other fun stuff:

WOW and gaming in general:

#34 Guest_AceRider_*

Guest_AceRider_*
  • Guests

Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:02 PM

Something I have added to the Gear tab underneath the trinkets columns is a small 3x5 table to make the proc average calculation for me.
The first column names the rows, the second column related to Trinket1 and the third to Trinket2. I'm not sure how to make a propper table on here but it looks something like;

ICD - Trinket1 ICD
ProcUpTime - Trinket1 Proc Up Time
Proc - Trinket1 Proc amount
ICD/Uptime - =SUM(ICD Cell/ProcUpTime Cell)
Proc/Result - +SUM(Proc Cell/Above Cell)

For me this table starts at N23 and is currently modeling Right Eye Of Rajh (heroic) so it reads as;

ICD - 50
ProcUpTime - 10
Proc - 1710
ICD/Uptime - =SUM(O23/O24)
Proc/Result - =SUM(O25/O26)

Hopefuly this will be someting others can impliment to aid there trinket calculation.

#35 Exemplar

Exemplar

    The One-Eyed Man

  • • Guide Author
  • 1,802 posts

Posted 06 January 2011 - 01:28 PM

For me this table starts at N23 and is currently modeling Right Eye Of Rajh (heroic) so it reads as;


Unless you have extensively tested and found otherwise, trinkets in Cataclysm generally have an ICD equal to 5 times duration. Thus your Right Eye should have an ICD of 50, not 45 (Wowhead is confirming 50, but as I said, testing could prove "the intarwebs" wrong). 45 seconds was often the default in Wrath, but no longer. Some items have been found not to follow this 5:1 ratio, so the Eye may be one of them.

Also recall, the Eye procs off crits (not hits, like most procs), so you are extremely unlikely to receive a proc the instant the ICD completes. You may want to factor some wiggle-room into your calculations.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#36 Guest_AceRider_*

Guest_AceRider_*
  • Guests

Posted 06 January 2011 - 01:38 PM

Thanks Exemplar, I've updated my previous post (and my spreadsheet) accordingly.

I havn't tested the right eye, just going by information I'd read somewhere - most likely relating to WotlK data. As for the eye proccing of crits and not hits I was simply using the end DPS as a rough estimate knowing that mine would be lower due to things like this.

I'm very new to modeling items and using spreadsheets for WoW and would have no idea how to model an item to proc from crit as apposed to melee hit.

#37 chadmlocke

chadmlocke

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 19 January 2011 - 04:56 PM

I need a little clarification on the trinket procs.

In the case of Right Eye of Rajh after breaking down the average proc (strength), do I then need to convert that strength into AP and enter that? I know it would seem obvious but my spreadsheet has an "Agility" option on the gear tab and I was confused as to whether that is supposed to be strength since an agility trink should have little benefit for us.

#38 Redcape

Redcape

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 543 posts

Posted 20 January 2011 - 03:49 AM

The spreadsheet has agility in case for some bizarre reason it is on a great item. You can simply enter the Strength in the Strength row, once you have figured out the average from the uptime and cooldown.
My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

Philosophy, Psychology and other fun stuff:

WOW and gaming in general:

#39 Redcape

Redcape

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 543 posts

Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:48 PM

My newest version is now up. The mechanics should be all set to go for patch 5.14. The major change in our priorities are that Mastery and Crit are now very close in value and are our best secondary stats with Haste trailing significantly. It looks like Mastery is slightly ahead of Crit but the difference is very small.
My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

Philosophy, Psychology and other fun stuff:

WOW and gaming in general:

#40 MrT

MrT

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:52 AM

Is it possible to make "load from battle.net" like it was in Landsoul's warrior spreadsheet?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users