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Cataclysm Holy Priest Compendium


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#21 flo-joe86

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:36 AM

Since I hit level 85 on sunday night, I tested some different talent allocations on my way through the highend and heroic dungeons. (My gearlevel average is about 330, fully enchanted.)

My conclusions: Serendipity isn't a must have for heroics. You can heal a equivalent equiped tank without speccing into this talent or having any haste rating on your gear, especially because the usage of FH or binding heal is extremely rare. I only use FH from SoL proccs.
I also tested Vieled Shadows (reduced CD on shadowfiend) and I never used our little pet twice in a fight, so I will spend these 2 points somewhere else in the next days.

Did anyone make some positive experiences with these two talents while raiding?

#22 Vokodlok

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:07 AM

I've found myself stacking quite alot of Serendipity last night in BWD on both Omnitor and Magmaw by using Binding Heal as much as I could, due to its fast cast and good MPH. On Omnitron it helped me to deliver a faster GHeal on the tanks while on Magmaw to get a fast first PoH during the raid AoE it does. I agree that Flash Heal is used very rarely, and mostly in tight situations like during the Toxitron add phase where healers move alot and you risk a tank death, there Flash heal comes handy to prevent a wipe. I wouldn't drop Serenpidity for now, even if in my current spec it made me drop Body and Soul.

Also Vieled Shadows is useful in raids. Those two fights which I've done till now were quite long (~7mins on Omnitron), which allow you to use it twice. But, even if in a 7min fight you can use a 5minute CD shadowfiend twice, you need to take into consideration how the fight looks like. If there is minimum damage in the first minutes, then you don't require to use it, and if you drop unde 70-75% mana after 2-3 minutes, then you won't be able to use it two times, or you it on the last x% when you have the choice to kill yourself for SoR if is necessary :).

#23 Elimbras

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 02:12 PM

I use flash quite a lot when I've taken damage. It's hpm is good and its hps excellent. The only trouble is that it does not work with the Heal Chakra (ie. does reset renew duration on the target). I've done no raid yet, but in aoe situation, I can imagine it being excellent for self-healing, then a hasted cheap POH on another group.
I also like Serependity for minimizing tank death risk. If a tank gets low, for any reason (silence, or heavy group damage for example), I can cast one or two flashs on him to prevent death, then a quick cheap GH to top him. In other words, it allows a maximum hps sequence of 2 flashs and 1 gh, if need be.

#24 Devotions

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 02:33 PM

I use flash quite a lot when I've taken damage. It's hpm is good and its hps excellent. The only trouble is that it does not work with the Heal Chakra (ie. does reset renew duration on the target). I've done no raid yet, but in aoe situation, I can imagine it being excellent for self-healing, then a hasted cheap POH on another group.
I also like Serependity for minimizing tank death risk. If a tank gets low, for any reason (silence, or heavy group damage for example), I can cast one or two flashs on him to prevent death, then a quick cheap GH to top him. In other words, it allows a maximum hps sequence of 2 flashs and 1 gh, if need be.


I hope you mean that you use Binding Heal quite a lot when you've taken damage. Flash heal's HPM is horrible, while Binding is as efficient as heal if you actually need the healing yourself.

#25 KamPa

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 04:19 PM

It might be just me, but it appears that in-combat regen has gone up - perhaps some sort of Holy Concentration buff? It's barely lower than OOC regen for me. 3363/3623 makes it 90% spirit regen. If this is intended, it would make Spirit quite a bit better. Not sure about Disc.

Granted, blues did post about Priest mana issues, so maybe...

#26 Zigizi

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 05:23 PM

It might be just me, but it appears that in-combat regen has gone up - perhaps some sort of Holy Concentration buff? It's barely lower than OOC regen for me. 3363/3623 makes it 90% spirit regen. If this is intended, it would make Spirit quite a bit better. Not sure about Disc.

Granted, blues did post about Priest mana issues, so maybe...


Can you clarify which blue post you're talking about? I can't find it on any of the bluetrackers.

#27 Nicarras

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 05:54 PM

To be fair the priest issues are well known on the class design team. Mana regen probably needs a buff or mana regen in some way needs to be addressed for ... us. Them? I've never considered myself a specific class so that sounds weird to say.


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#28 Bohemienne

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 07:45 PM

I've found myself stacking quite alot of Serendipity last night in BWD on both Omnitor and Magmaw by using Binding Heal as much as I could, due to its fast cast and good MPH. On Omnitron it helped me to deliver a faster GHeal on the tanks while on Magmaw to get a fast first PoH during the raid AoE it does. I agree that Flash Heal is used very rarely, and mostly in tight situations like during the Toxitron add phase where healers move alot and you risk a tank death, there Flash heal comes handy to prevent a wipe. I wouldn't drop Serenpidity for now, even if in my current spec it made me drop Body and Soul.


Agreed. I found my healing output in 5mans vastly improved when I allowed myself to start working up Serendipity stacks every now and then (though I still try to reserve starting a stack for SoL procs or occurrences that demand FH/Binding).

I'm still having difficulty finding Holy's niche in raids, however. I've only been in one so far, and ended up swapping to Disc midway through to see if I had an easier time then (I did). HW: Sanctuary seems like a great spell in theory, but in practice I've had no shortage of grief from tanks/fellow raid members about it either closely resembling a boss's adverse ability (Prophet Barim and the first boss in HoO come to mind), or else covering up ground projections that need to be seen to either be avoided or targeted. I'm almost always filling a raid healing role, but I've been hesitant to use the AoE chakra over the direct healing chakra and I'm not sure what tack to take with it.

#29 Carnathagia

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 08:56 PM

Holy's niche is that we are the most efficient Multi-target healers. Prayer of Mending, Prayer of Healing, and Lightwell are arguably the best counters to the raid wide damage prevalent in many fights.

Here's a Halfus Wyrmbreaker 10-man normal from last night.
The fight has raid wide AoE damage in bursts. Holy's AoE toolset really shines on this fight. Being able to efficiently bring the raid back up from those large deficits is where we shine, leaving the other healers free to keep the tanks steady and pickup the people who are in more immediate danger.
Here's a similar fight (Healing wise) of Theralion and Valiona 10 man. Also, you can see where I intentionally face-planted at the end of the fight after I had run out of mana, and threw out an additional ~244000 healing with Flash x 2 -> PoH (Serendipity) with Spirit of Redemption.
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#30 Sinndir

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 09:20 PM

Since I hit level 85 on sunday night, I tested some different talent allocations on my way through the highend and heroic dungeons. (My gearlevel average is about 330, fully enchanted.)

My conclusions: Serendipity isn't a must have for heroics. You can heal a equivalent equiped tank without speccing into this talent or having any haste rating on your gear, especially because the usage of FH or binding heal is extremely rare. I only use FH from SoL proccs.
I also tested Vieled Shadows (reduced CD on shadowfiend) and I never used our little pet twice in a fight, so I will spend these 2 points somewhere else in the next days.

Did anyone make some positive experiences with these two talents while raiding?


The extra shadowfiend will be tougher to use in heroics for sure, but if you look at Carnathagia's logs that he posted one was 7:20 (easily get 2 there) and the other was over 5 mins, so no use.

Your armory was not opening for me at work, but for me the 2 points came to a choice between 2% spell haste or the reduced cooldown on shadowfiend (same as others discussed earlier). As your gear level raises and you don't need that second shadow fiend as much and would rather have the throughput you'll likely be swapping those talent points around.

I am going to give veiled shadows at least a week or two of 25-man raiding and then determine how many times I make use of that second fiend.

#31 Bohemienne

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 09:37 PM

Holy's niche is that we are the most efficient Multi-target healers. Prayer of Mending, Prayer of Healing, and Lightwell are arguably the best counters to the raid wide damage prevalent in many fights.

Here's a Halfus Wyrmbreaker 10-man normal from last night.

...


Thank you, that was quite helpful. I'd been mortified at the thought of dropping more than a single PoH in any lengthy span due to the high mana cost. Are you queuing it up with Flash/Bind/SoL procs, or just once Chakra: Sanctuary is active, PoH -> CoH -> regen...... PoH -> refresh PoM -> regen..... something to that effect?

#32 Carnathagia

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:27 PM

Are you queuing it up with Flash/Bind/SoL procs, or just once Chakra: Sanctuary is active, PoH -> CoH -> regen...... PoH -> refresh PoM -> regen..... something to that effect?


In these two fights, the idea was to activate PoH Chakra (I'm pretty sure I'm not keeping perfect uptime on it in these attempts) with Prayer of Mending at the beginning of the fight while using it on cooldown, and use PoH when the 'big boom' hits. There really wasn't need to waste mana on a Flash Heal to cast it faster; there is usually plenty of time between damage waves so casting speed wasn't too important. Recovering that HP deficit efficiently is much more important. CoH was used when I felt like I had the mana to spare for it (it's still fairly efficient), or I needed to move and get people out of a low danger zone, or when an entire group wasn't missing HP. I used Guardian Spirit whenever the tank gave me a heart attack, and the occasional Greater Heal on 1 very low raid member. Lightwell was used prior to the pull, and on cooldown after that. I also tried to use Divine Hymn every fight, and not save it for a rainy day. The rest of the time I avoided damage and conserved mana.
Emraldè - Resto/Balance Druid - Carnathagia - Holy/Disc Priest - Liltankh - Prot/Fury Warrior
Jovavich - Arcane/Fire Mage

#33 Jeffonious

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 10:36 PM

It might be just me, but it appears that in-combat regen has gone up - perhaps some sort of Holy Concentration buff? It's barely lower than OOC regen for me. 3363/3623 makes it 90% spirit regen. If this is intended, it would make Spirit quite a bit better. Not sure about Disc.

Granted, blues did post about Priest mana issues, so maybe...


I noticed this late last night as well. I have been unable to find an official confirmation but my in-combat regen has gone up noticeably. Seems odd that they would stealth buff us for something that many priest have been vocally complaining about.

#34 kcomfort001

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 01:44 AM

As a holy priest I feel these two talent points could be spent better.

Surge of light technically happens once every 17 heals, or smite, I rarely smite in holy like I would in discipline.. last night I sat at the priest trainer and casted 60 consecutive heals on myself to see how much this actually procs at 60 heals and two procs I felt it wasn't worth the two points, its just such a low probability of going off I can't justify taking the two points.

Again i'm sure people could stand around and cast 60 heals and have it proc more, but by the time we're geared up for raids I think mana will be less of an issue and the insta mana free flash heal won't even be something you're thinking about.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Might be a better build, though twin disciplines is subject to debate as to whether its actually worth taking, or you could pick up desperate prayer, and two points into the fade, even though I am not sure that 30 second reduced cooldown on this is worth the two points either

This is just my opinion personally I specc'd more like this

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

7/31/3

but I haven't had enough time to compare the differences... personally I am an old disc healer, and while my bubble absorbs currently about 2000 points of dmg less spec'd disc glyphed with the heal it will trigger echo of light, while this doesn't heal for much it may just buy the time you need to recover.. which I find extremely useful while using heal / serenity chakra using bubble heal and renew as a holy priest occasionally filling in with the PoM or Circle of Healing

Just my two cents, otherwise very informative and gave me a great baseline for my spec.

#35 Damän

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 02:12 AM

So well you stated that we should get as much Int as possible? (I am new to the Healer-business) Wouldnt we get more benefit from more Spirit? I mean in simple words we would get a longer/deeper breath or am I on the wrong track? Or is it just like get as much Int as possible by having a minimum amount of Spirit like xxx ?

#36 Namika

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 03:05 AM

So well you stated that we should get as much Int as possible? (I am new to the Healer-business) Wouldnt we get more benefit from more Spirit? I mean in simple words we would get a longer/deeper breath or am I on the wrong track? Or is it just like get as much Int as possible by having a minimum amount of Spirit like xxx ?


In a perfect world we would stack spirit to death.

Scratch that, in a perfect world we wouldn't have to because we would have regen.


The most important thing to remember is that if you have a small mana pool, you get less casts. Intellect increases your mana pool as well as your spell power, so your fewer casts will be less powerful overall.
(completely arbitrary numbers)

If you have 10k mana you can heal 2-4 times depending on the heal.
If you have 60k mana you can heal 6 times that AND they will be stronger.

If you have 10k mana, you cast 2-4 spells and then rely on your spirit to stack your mana back up.
If you have 60k mana, you have more to Start with, so you are not oom immediately and waiting on spirit. It can regen your mana in the background while you work with what you have initially. It extends the life of what you have so you can still cast while regen'ing.


Also the base regeneration for priests is a function of both spirit and intellect.


Sorry for the overly simplified answer, my boyfriend is toe-tapping (I'm making myself late for our date). hope this helps

#37 Carnathagia

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 04:21 AM

So well you stated that we should get as much Int as possible? (I am new to the Healer-business) Wouldnt we get more benefit from more Spirit? I mean in simple words we would get a longer/deeper breath or am I on the wrong track? Or is it just like get as much Int as possible by having a minimum amount of Spirit like xxx ?


Since Intellect is static on gear, and not reforgeable, the only time you have the choice between Intellect and Spirit is in your gemming. Gemming Purified (Intellect/Spirit) in blue gems is usually worth it for an Intellect or Spirit bonus, but Intellect is the superior stat since it gives Spellpower and slightly less regen than Spirit, assuming you have a Mana Tide Totem in your group.
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Jovavich - Arcane/Fire Mage

#38 Imua

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 04:31 AM

Just to confirm the holy priest mana regen buff:

Holy Concentration's mana regeneration component has been increased from 10/20% to 20/40%.


Cataclysm Hotfixes

Yeah, so that plus meditation should in combat at 90% of non-combat regen.

Oh, and just for completeness' sake:

Rapture's mana regeneration component has been increased from 1.5/2/2.5 to 2/4/6%.



#39 Loqua

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 08:52 AM

I don't know how this slipped everyone's notice, but there is actually an which would probably be better for gloves than either 50 mastery or 50 haste. Yeah, the Maelstrom Crystal cost may be hefty this early into the expansion, but its definitely an option.

---

What are your opinions on Surge of Light? I picked it up for early heroics because of the mana issues I was having, but now, especially with the increased regen that we were so kindly given, I'm not sure how much it's really worth it.

#40 Elerion

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:55 AM

According to my napkin math, Surge of Light is very valuable as long as we're still using Heal as our bread&butter filler spell.

At 6% proc chance, you expect a Surge every 17 Heal casts. If we assume one Heal cast per 5 second period on average, this will be once every 85 seconds. The mana value of a Surge proc is roughly:
a) one Flash Heal with no crit: 20590 * 0.28 / (1+0.18/2) = 5289 mana
plus
B) 10% mana reduction on a GHeal (assuming 2/2 Serendipity): 20590 * 0.27 * 0.10 = 556 mana
Sum mana value of a Surge proc is: 5825 mana

At one proc per 85 seconds, this is 344mp5, or 172mp5 per talent point. This is almost 3 times as strong as Veiled Shadows (62.5mp5 per talent point).


That said, at some point our mana regen (and HPS requirements) will be so high that Heal will be degraded to something you only cast to keep Chakra going. In some raid phases, this is already true. This will make the value of Surge of Light plummet. If my napkin math above is correct, Surge of Light will be less valuable than Veiled Shadows once you're casting less than 1 Heal per 15 second period.




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