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Warlock Simple Questions Thread: Cataclysm Edition


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#21 turturin

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:00 PM

I figure first page will be a good place for this since we can expect a lot of questions on it (its just one of those things...):

Fel Flame: Will it ever be useful to cast? I've been throwing it in my rotation for funs sake but I have a gut feeling that the dpct just isnt worth it

Has anyone got any math/analysis on this?


It is useful. I did my first two raid fights last night, and there are multiple uses in both. In Conclave of winds, use it while getting out of ice patches on the North guy, use it to finish off last bits of HP on adds as you're running back to the slipstream after dpsing on the West platform. On argaloth, use it while strafing back and forth during rain of chaos phases, after conflag is on cooldown and refreshing corruption and bane of doom.

Edit: Also to the poster above me:
1. Demon Soul does not require Soulburn, so one's use is not dependent on the other's.
2. For Affliction, I haven't run a sim, but logically it follows that you should open with soulburn: soul fire as your first damaging spell so that all the spells that follow (including dots) can benefit from your haste. In other words, after cursing the target, the ISF buff will be the highest priority on your action list. The only caveat is I'm not yet sure which should take priority if haunt and soul fire both need to be refreshed at same time, the guess here is haunt becuase of the higher modifier (20% dmg >> 15% haste) and because of its affect on corruption refresh.

#22 Simplexity

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:22 PM

Thought I'd share some simple napkin math that I did just to find minimum values of haste needed to get an additional tick out of tick out of Immolate/UA. As far as I know, you still need 10%/30%/50%/70% to get extra ticks. This is for non-goblins.

When ISF is not up
1.1 = 1.03*1.05*x x = 1.017 1.7% haste, 217 rating from gear
1.3 = 1.03*1.05*x x = 1.202 20.2% haste, 2587 rating from gear

When ISF is up
1.3 = 1.03*1.05*1.15*x x= 1.045 4.5% haste, 576 rating from gear
1.5 = 1.03*1.05*1.15*x x= 1.206 20.6% haste, 2637 rating from gear

2637 haste seems to be the number to shoot for, but won't be obtainable with full 359/372.

#23 Sabo

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 02:14 PM

Question regarding the imp not casting Firebolts at the speed he should. Based on what I've read here we should not use "/petattack" in any macro where we spam since it will cause the imp to constantly start all over with the cast until we stop spamming. Using "/cast Firebolt" is very nice, and should be used on any button we spam. The problem I have is that telling the imp to cast the Firebolt will not make him continue attacking.

Basically, what I want is this:
Imp is in passive mode so I'm free to banish/fear/whatever.
When I cast immolate I want the pet to start attacking.
Most spells/abilities that I spam often at this point will include "/cast Firebolt" in a macro.

I could use "/petattack" when I cast immolate to get my pet started, but since I'll spam that one as well it kind of nullify the point of having lots of "/cast Firebolt" macros. Any way to create macros that will make the pet attack if it isn't already, but if it is attacking, it will just case firebolt?

Something like
if !attacking
/petattack
else
/cast Firebolt

#24 Doobyman

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 04:12 PM

#showtooltip Immolate
/petattack [target=pettarget,noexists]
/cast Immolate

Thats what I'm using on Immolate. It'll tell the imp to attack your target if its not already attacking one.

#25 Maconi

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 09:19 PM

I noticed something in the "SimulationCraft for Warlocks (Cataclysm Edition)" thread that I don't understand.

The Destro sim don't cast Shadow Bolt for Shadow and Flame. Does keeping SaF up (as Destro) really result in a DPS loss right now?

#26 Sabo

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 11:37 PM

#showtooltip Immolate
/petattack [target=pettarget,noexists]
/cast Immolate

Thats what I'm using on Immolate. It'll tell the imp to attack your target if its not already attacking one.


For that to work the pet has to be attacking something though, which doesn't solve my problem.

#27 Osakaa

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 05:07 AM

Affliction Demon Soul question:

As far as I know, dots that are already running aren't getting the bonus from Felhunter Demon Soul when you cast it. Is the best spot to use DS to wait until you're about to use haunt, cast DS, Haunt, Fel Flame (if the 6sec duration increase counts as a "new dot" and will enable DS bonus), and then normal BoA refresh?

#28 Saufsoldat

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 06:39 PM

I noticed something in the "SimulationCraft for Warlocks (Cataclysm Edition)" thread that I don't understand.

The Destro sim don't cast Shadow Bolt for Shadow and Flame. Does keeping SaF up (as Destro) really result in a DPS loss right now?


Obviously it results in a DPS loss, if the buff is already present in the raid. Simcraft simulates under the assumption that all raid buffs are present (unless you deactivate that option in the program).

#29 Demi9OD

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:52 PM

For that to work the pet has to be attacking something though, which doesn't solve my problem.


Sabo you just need to macro in Firebolt like this. You will see a positive gain from spamming the /cast Firebolt spell until the imps cast time dips under 1.5 seconds, at which point it becomes unnecessary.

#showtooltip Incinerate
/cast [target=pettarget]Firebolt
/cast Incinerate


#30 Talimar

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:23 AM

For destruction is getting enough haste to get an extra tick from immolate/corruption more important than getting hit capped at the moment? And what is the exact haste rating we are shooting for from gear alone?

#31 Vicieus

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 07:45 AM

This seems like a reasonable suggestion. There are two issues, however:

[LIST=1]
[*]Statistical Net DPS Loss. My preferred mode would be to cast Soul Fire as soon as Soulburn is off CD. By binding Soulburn to a filler ability, I am delaying my cast of Soul Fire by at least one GCD, if not more. This will result in a DPS loss over time, as some fights that I would have been able to use instant Soul Fire twice I only get to use it once.


Any other thoughts on how to bypass these issues?


/cast Soulburn
/stopcast
/cast Soul fire

CD timer to use everytime its up, and a separate keybind or numeric key to use regular soulfire (for times where soulburn is coming off cd, and you dont want to use instant soulfire at that exact moment. i.e. saving it for when you know you have to move soon.)

On another note, has any other lock been getting error messages when using soulburn+soulfire or soulfire in general? Theres times where I pop SB+SF and I get "Spell is not ready yet" error messages. I cannot cast soulfire while the duration of the soulburn is up, and its really pissing me off.

EDIT: For whatever reason the above macro doesn't work while moving, but works perfectly (one GCD) when not moving...

#32 krilz

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:43 AM

On another note, has any other lock been getting error messages when using soulburn+soulfire or soulfire in general? Theres times where I pop SB+SF and I get "Spell is not ready yet" error messages. I cannot cast soulfire while the duration of the soulburn is up, and its really pissing me off.

Yes, I also got this a few times last night. Highly annoying. I have no fix, but cancelling the Soulburn buff could fix it, although it's a lousy "fix".

#33 KeckWH

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:34 AM

I've been experimenting with this since the changes that have been made to macros, and the best solution I've found is:

/castrandom Soulburn
/cast Soul Fire

As long as the /castrandom modifier is on top, it works more often than not ... but then again, I've also the experienced "Spell is not ready yet" error with Soul Fire a few times. It seems to work almost flawlessly for trinkets or profession talents like Lifeblood, but I still keep a normal button for the skill I'm trying to proc on a castbar under the macro.

#34 Enuowm

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 02:24 PM

As far as the Soul Fire bug goes I'm not sure exactly what causes it although I've seen a post saying that if you get any sort of error while you activate soulburn (Out of Range, Target must be in front of you etc.) It will bug out, however I've noticed it happening when I Soulburn and try to cast a Soul Fire instantly after Soulburn not even after the GCD of casting soulburn...if that make sense.

#35 Tickles Lightly

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 05:47 PM

Now that peole have had more time to play does anyone have tips on what we should do for AOE? SoC seems to be super slow, RoF seems to be weak. I read somewhere that blue was going to be pulling the self dmg off of Hellfire but haven't seen that happen so I haven't tried it (plus the fact that standing in the middle of an AOE pull scares me). I'm pulling around 8K on single tgt as destro but can't quite eek out anymore than 4K on AOE no matter what I try.

#36 Demi9OD

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 06:57 PM

Blizzard has been making some changes to instant Soul Fires quietly in the background. No longer will a Empowered Imp proc be consumed if a Soul Fire cast is already in progress. No longer will the Soul Burn buff be consumed when both Empowered Imp and Soul burn are active, and an instant Soul Fire is cast. Both of these are positive changes, but they have clearly introduced a sporadic bug with Soul Burned Soul Fires in the process.

Tickles, as far as AOE is concerned, in most situations you are best off using Shadowflame on cooldown, and keeping Immolate up on all mobs. If that's completed you can either also corruption all mobs, or just single target one down.

#37 Tickles Lightly

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:14 PM

For destro folks, what are people's thoughts on using SF when Soulburn is on CD for the 15% spell haste? In other words, is it best to prioritize SF for the haste proc when Soulburn is on CD or forego it until Soulburn is available?

#38 Darkdep

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:20 PM

For best DPS you should keep this buff up as much as possible. I hit my Soulburn key out of habit before I Soul Fire and if it's ready great, if not the cast time is still worth it to keep the buff up.

#39 Onorvele

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:07 PM

Having been spending some time on my shammy and DK, I came back to my warlock and tried to continue contributing to damage mitigation by interrupting targets. But I'm having some trouble, it may be my brain isn't working completely. Overall, do we have any actual interrupts, in the sense of abilities that will interrupt even if the target is immune to the primary effect of the ability?

I can't remember if FG Intercept did interrupt on targets that were stun-immune, but have confirmed that Axe Toss does not. The glyphed HoG effect doesn't interrupt either, as far as I can tell. The fear and horror effects are similarly confined to targets that are not fear-immune. Whiplash?
Yes I know I am *way* over hit cap.

#40 turturin

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:16 PM

For best DPS you should keep this buff up as much as possible. I hit my Soulburn key out of habit before I Soul Fire and if it's ready great, if not the cast time is still worth it to keep the buff up.


In my limited cata raid experience, I'll say that it's a fight-dependent answer, but generally 3 types of fights:
1. Fights with adds with low health (e.g. poison bombs on ODS). Use soulburn: soulfire on cooldown, i.e. every other time you need to refresh. Use shadowburn to get back the shards you need and you can do this the whole fight.

2. Fights with single target dps'ing, relatively uninterrupted (e.g. Argolath, name from recollection so may be a slightly off. Apologies.) In cases like this you can soul burn soulfire on cooldown if you want to, unless raid mechanics are causing you loss of uptime, in which case save your soulburns for when you need to "restart" the ISF buff.

3. Fights with downtime between swaps (e.g. Conclave of the Winds). On these fights, save your soulburn exclusively for when you need to "restart" the buff, as it will fall off multiple times during the fight. Depending on your assignment on a fight like conclave, you may have opportunities to replenish your shards through shadowburn as well.




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