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Warlock Simple Questions Thread: Cataclysm Edition


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#521 Klavarnae

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:42 PM

My question is in regards to the dot refreshing section. How do you handle refreshing and clipping of banes? I'm assuming you have to let them tick through and refresh right after the final (big) tick but as someone new to warlock mechanics this would be a great thing to clarify in the dot refreshing section. Thanks!


For Bane of Agony, always refresh just after the last tick because of the way the dot dmg goes. As for Bane of Doom, you can refresh it any time after there is 15 seconds left on the dot, as it ticks every 15 seconds and you wont clip anything anymore. The only time you wouldn't refresh Doom during the dot and refresh it afterwards would be if you had several int(etc.) procs when you first applied it (ie. the first doom placed on target from pre-potting).

#522 krekot

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:16 PM

What addons are you using for dots tracking?

#523 Azganis

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:21 PM

What addons are you using for dots tracking?


I like using TellMeWhen, use it for spell cooldown tracking as well. Lets you place customizable icons for whatever you may have, trinket/spell cool/debuff and add conditions to said icon.

#524 Karsteck

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:00 PM

Working on Heroic 25 Zon'ozz and I was wondering a few things.

Currently, we are split into 4 groups working on a flail, 2 eyes and then the claw we are assigned to.

Do you think it would overall be better to just make sure all my dots are up on the 4 targets (UA, Corrup, CoE and BoA) or should I just keep UA/Corrup up on all of them and then Shadowbolt/Haunt them down one at a time?

Also, I am poping my DG after the second blackphase with correct intel procs, because thats what people have told me is the best way to go, but we are making it into 4 blackphases instead of the 3 phases like I've seen in kill advice. So maybe I should pop it on the 3rd blackphase?


You want to DG as late as possible in the fight while still getting full duration out of your doomguard. For me, that's 4 minutes in, on the 3rd proc. of insignia of the corrupted mind. This happens during the main phase, so I can have soulburn + engineering gloves lined up with it. Actually on this kill I'm linking, it looks like I doomguarded near the end of my Velocity proc, so I only got my DPS pot (which I popped since I had velocity lined up with meta and lots of time to stand there and pew pew, and the boss was prob. going to be dead before I could get another full meta in).

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I'm demo, so I got 34 casts, 1.9 dmg out of my DG. It ended about 30 secs before the boss died. (for a demo lock, you can pop up the "buffs cast" bar for demonic pact on WoL to see when the doomguard was up). I guess after the next round of nerfs I'll have to doomguard on my 2nd insignia proc.

I do a lot of dmg on that fight since I leave my felhunter on the boss during black, to make sure as many people as possible are in range for 10% spellpower, and also because it's doing more damage there than it would running over to eyes and flails. Also demo does well since late doomguard is really strong, and I usually line up my last meta of the fight with heroism.

As aff, you don't get so much dmg out of your pet, so it might be worth it to bring him over to adds to get a spell lock on an eye stalk, esp. if you don't have anyone else in your party with an interrupt, since one person eating two shadow chain beam things is how we generally lose someone during black, unless they were really low from a poorly timed black while people still had shadows.

Raid dmg during black scales with the number of adds up, so getting the flail down ASAP is key to healers being able to last the whole fight. As aff, I might do something like corruption and/or UA the flail (just one or the other if it always dies really fast), CoE the eye that will die last (for jinx, if your group it too far from the boss for jinx off the boss), shadow bolt the flail until it's dead, then full-dot one eye, soul swap to the other eye. If you're with a boomkin, you can wait on CoE until after the flail is dead, since they'll apply it to the flail with mushrooms they planted on the way over, before adds spawned. Work out with your party who's getting 5% spell crit on which eye, if applicable. non-jinx warlocks will want to work out who's getting 8% spell dmg on which eye, if they're with a boomkin (or unholy DK, if you mix ranged and melee). The hunter pet 8% has a 35sec CD or something, so you can't count on their pet putting it up in a timely manner. If you're in a party with good burst DPS, you can maybe get away with UA/Corr on the flail, and then dotting both eyes while they kill the flail. SB spam as aff is fairly weak compared to boomkin or spriest single target burst. Fire mages usually LB the eyes to get their 10% haste buff up from having dots on 3 targets before nuking the flail, but they have the excuse of having to target the eyes anyway to counterspell them.

Obviously also work out with your group which eye to nuke down after dotting them both. It's much better for the healers to have more adds dead sooner.

For my guild, learning this fight was more about getting the orb bounced correctly and getting it to hit the boss before a new round of disrupting shadows, so nobody had the debuff going into the phase. Correctly means no ranged hung around in the wrong spot to split with the solo soakers (spriests / fire mages), and no melee failing to get out. But we did sometimes still lose people in black phase, so optimizing the DPS of my party on adds was something I did, since more efficient DPS is always better. (we use the same strat you describe, 4 teams for 4 groups of adds, arranged into parties in the raid, with an extra group of spare healers and the tank + feral OT for the other claw)

If you do leave your pet on the boss during black, make sure you refresh dots right before adds spawn, so shadow bite will do as much as possible. When we first killed this, we were pretty tight on the enrage timer, so leaving the pet on the boss instead of having it help with adds seemed like the most efficient use of the pet, in terms of beating all the parts of the fight, not just surviving black phases.

#525 Karsteck

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:28 PM

Hey there,
don't know if this has been asked before ...

I'm currently trying hardmodes with my guild (4/8) and my question is how I should reforge my gear.
For some fights i'm affliction, for some demonology and I want to know if there's some kind of ideal stat weight, so that I can deal good damage with both specs.


My idea was to reforge as followed:
Haste till 22.5% (so that i have two additional ticks of Unstable Affliction) > mastery > haste > crit

Is this a good idea?


First of all, /agree with netsach, reforge for your current progression fight, unless makes your farm content actually hard again.

I play all the fights in DS as Demo, since my 25man guild has no other locks and no ele shamans, so I'm the 10% spellpower buff. It's viable, but sub-optimal for heroic gunship, also feels a bit weak for normal madness, have to see how it is on heroic after we finish spine. It's good for hagara 25H, felstorm tombs, and strong pet + doomguard dmg on frost pillars while we're all running. On 10man, destro would be great, esp. since nether ward would be OP for 10man's nasty lightning phase, plus for awkard moments of high ice lance stacks. Biggest frustration is that if you soulburn for the SP buff to get your 4pc, it's not up in time to soulburn a felguard to felstorm tombs. Only an issue for 25man where there are enough tombs to be worth felstorming, but still.

I normally run at 1999 haste (extra tick on a couple dots including shadowflame with 20% nozdormu buff on madness, and just over the usual 1993 for an extra corr tick, so why not). But for H Gunship where I'm multidotting everything and my pet is less of my damage than normal (in phase1), I undo some haste->mastery reforges, and do some mastery->haste reforges, and sit around 2363 haste. I also swap to a non-reforged valor ring, so my demo-haste set actually has 2458 haste. I use this higher-haste reforge for our work on H Spine as well, along with swapping out H insignia for bottled wishes (reforged to mastery). The high haste there reduces the amount of luck required to have meta ready for every lift.

Now that the 15% nerf is in, I didn't bother reforging back down to 1999 haste for the farm content, and actually still did really good dmg as demo (I was surprised at how little difference it seemed to make). So 2400 haste rating or maybe even a bit more should be fine for you in demo spec. The main thing is that demo loves haste and mastery, and crit is pretty far behind. If mastery is ok for Aff, then def. favor it over crit. On some fights, you aren't close to getting an extra meta or losing one at the end of the fight, so dumping haste for mastery helps demo dps significantly. Other times more haste lets you line up your metas with fight mechanics better. I have only 162 crit rating, since I have a 391 T12 helm and the BoE trash drop haste/mastery belt, and still don't have heroic boots. With this much haste, and so little crit, I think I have life tapped at least once on Ultraxion when I got unlucky with pet crits. Esp. since I have insignia of the corrupted mind, all those incin casts can add up.

#526 Karsteck

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:43 PM

What addons are you using for dots tracking?


I like tellmewhen. I use DoTimer as well, with a pretty nice setup for grouping my warlock DoTs and lining them up into timer bars that I can compare to my short cooldowns (hand of gul'dan, shadowflame), to plan out my rotation. So when I have time to tunnel my timers, bars are great. But when things are hectic, I usually look at my TMW icons for my dots, so I can see more quickly which dots are up and which aren't. I have an icon for my immo, my corr, my bane of (doom|agony), and one of 8% spell dmg from anyone. I find it takes less brainpower to see the immolate icon not lit up than it does to look at all the DoT bars and see that immo isn't one of them. I also make icons for my CDs, and have them light up or shake when they come off CD. My felstorm icon only displays when the unit Jhuufazag exists, so I guess I'll be really confused when I raid with another lock with a felguard with the same name. But it's a handy thing to look at to see if I do or don't have a felguard out currently.

Like I said, having DoT bars that line up with CD and buff timer (metamorphosis, demon soul) bars is really nice for deciding e.g. whether to refresh Doom now, or wait for one more tick and still refresh it during meta, and other rotation optimizations that you can do on easy parts of a fight where you can pay full attention to your rotation. I guess DoTimer will stop working eventually ince I haven't seen any updates to it since 4.0.3, and then I'll need something else, but it's what I still use. Before tidyplates had debuff timers, it was the only way I knew of to get timers for more than target + focus, but now for serious multidotting of mobs that aren't too tall to see health bars, tidy plates is more than fine. (although it will bog down on slower CPUs, so i used to turn off tidyplates) Also, dotimer is buggy with lots of targets, so now that tidyplates is good, I actually limit dotimer to my current target. I still remember how much it sucked when I'd come back to the boss after maloriak black phase and find that my DoT timers weren't displaying any bars, so I'd have to just look at my debuffs under my target portrait.

#527 babisson

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:05 PM

Did something happen to the Destruction thread? I cannot seem to find it anywhere.

#528 Badahs

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:40 PM

Did something happen to the Destruction thread? I cannot seem to find it anywhere.


in the display options part at the bottom of the thread selection page you need to click on the "From the" drop down box and select "beginning". Then click show threads and it'll show up, along with every other thread made in the warlock forums.

#529 Meaning

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:23 PM

In the display options part at the bottom of the thread selection page you need to click on the "From the" drop down box and select "beginning". Then click show threads and it'll show up, along with every other thread made in the warlock forums.


Quoting for future generations.

The case of the disappearing thread...Since it comes up so often I'll leave this here instead of deleting it. Note to self: bonus infraction points the next time this question is asked (maybe).

Keywords: thread, disappear, gone, show, affliction, destruction, demonology, how I use forum, guinness cupcakes.

#530 Masq

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 01:49 AM

Whats the best horde race for Warlock? Is there a race DPS comparison anywhere?

#531 Scathbais

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:40 PM

Unfortunately, in all gear levels for all specs that i have tested (through T-14H) Orc is by far the best dps race.
For example Demo locks are 4+% ahead of belfs and undead in T-14H gear.

Touch of the Grave turns out to be worth a measly 250 dps over blood elf (no pve talents) because of an ICD and the fact that it only works on casted spells.

#532 Elmi

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:19 PM

Two short questions:

- Are DoTs still snapshotted?
- If so, does the snapshot happen on a SB:SS cast or when it hits the target and the DoTs are actually applied?

#533 Zakalwe

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:35 PM

Yes they are, and there's no difference between the two because SS doesn't have a travel time.

#534 Shiennar

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:10 AM

Yes they are, and there's no difference between the two because SS doesn't have a travel time.


I believe thats not quite what he asked and do forgive me if Im wrong on this one.

Is the snapshot of dots happening on SS-inhale? Or SS-exhale? Just for the sake of argument say that Dark Soul ran out inbetween the two.

#535 Jelloslock

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:13 AM

I believe thats not quite what he asked and do forgive me if Im wrong on this one.

Is the snapshot of dots happening on SS-inhale? Or SS-exhale? Just for the sake of argument say that Dark Soul ran out inbetween the two.


The original question was: On SB:SS cast or when it lands. I am not quite sure if he meant normal SS or SB:SS, but he said SB:SS. So there is no real question there since SB:SS is instantly on the target the second you hit SB:SS.

If he was asking if normal SS snap shotted where would be on the landing of the DoTs on the new target.

#536 Elmi

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:26 PM

I believe thats not quite what he asked and do forgive me if Im wrong on this one.

Is the snapshot of dots happening on SS-inhale? Or SS-exhale? Just for the sake of argument say that Dark Soul ran out inbetween the two.



Nope, Zakalwe understood the question right. Thanks for the answer btw.
I somehow had the flying animation of SS in mind (which it had the last time I played Affliction on Sinestra before my break) and thought it had a travel time.

Another one: Are DoTs snapshotted again each time, they get extended (Fel Flame, Void Ray, etc.)? And if a dot gets extended/applied in Meta, does it keep the damage bonus after you leave Meta again?

#537 Zakalwe

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:31 PM

Yes, and yes, but corruption is not affected by meta.

(These really should go in the simple questions thread, btw)

#538 Signus

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 04:05 PM

Since the MOP patches... should Warlocks Manually refresh there dots OR should we be using Fel Flame refresh our dots??

#539 Keldion

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:22 PM

Dots should be manually refreshed; Fel Flame is only intended to fill time spent on movement.

At level 90, Pandemic will further detract from using Fel Flame to refresh dots.




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