Jump to content


Photo

Warlock Simple Questions Thread: Cataclysm Edition


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
538 replies to this topic

#41 Osakaa

Osakaa

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 14 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:03 AM

Having been spending some time on my shammy and DK, I came back to my warlock and tried to continue contributing to damage mitigation by interrupting targets. But I'm having some trouble, it may be my brain isn't working completely. Overall, do we have any actual interrupts, in the sense of abilities that will interrupt even if the target is immune to the primary effect of the ability?

I can't remember if FG Intercept did interrupt on targets that were stun-immune, but have confirmed that Axe Toss does not. The glyphed HoG effect doesn't interrupt either, as far as I can tell. The fear and horror effects are similarly confined to targets that are not fear-immune. Whiplash?


Seems like you're Demonology, but in any case, Affliction locks have the Felhunter's Spell Lock. Works most of the time (if not always).

#42 Unknowndiv

Unknowndiv

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 09:09 AM

Now that peole have had more time to play does anyone have tips on what we should do for AOE? SoC seems to be super slow, RoF seems to be weak. I read somewhere that blue was going to be pulling the self dmg off of Hellfire but haven't seen that happen so I haven't tried it (plus the fact that standing in the middle of an AOE pull scares me). I'm pulling around 8K on single tgt as destro but can't quite eek out anymore than 4K on AOE no matter what I try.

As destro I do not use AoE abilities (RoF costs 12k mana! and has no talants to power it up), just Immolating everyone. As affliction I use Soulburn+SoC - thats about 5k AoE damage on crit (+15% crit from talants), 7k mana and lots of free corruption :) In addition I spam UA and shadowflame. On trash I get about 13k dps, on single target fights I get the same dps :)

#43 Vremenno

Vremenno

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 09:46 AM

DoTs. How do they work now? What's refreshed when? I was under the impression this changed, but it seems to work like before.

I was playing with a dummy, and thought I had it figured out, when I had Darkmoon Card: Volcano proc. And the damage of my corruption went up. Without recasting, or haunt. But with Gale of Shadows' stacking SP proc, nothing happens until a recast/haunt. And when the buff expired, the damage decreased again.

As far as I've tested, debuffs are taken into account every tick. Except the DMF trinket so far. Spellpower and percentage buffs (Demon Soul) are only taken into account on cast, and held throughout the rest of the spell. I've been led to believe crit and haste work the same way too?

#44 krilz

krilz

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 286 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:04 AM

DoTs. How do they work now? What's refreshed when? I was under the impression this changed, but it seems to work like before.

I was playing with a dummy, and thought I had it figured out, when I had Darkmoon Card: Volcano proc. And the damage of my corruption went up. Without recasting, or haunt. But with Gale of Shadows' stacking SP proc, nothing happens until a recast/haunt. And when the buff expired, the damage decreased again.

As far as I've tested, debuffs are taken into account every tick. Except the DMF trinket so far. Spellpower and percentage buffs (Demon Soul) are only taken into account on cast, and held throughout the rest of the spell. I've been led to believe crit and haste work the same way too?

As far as I know (other people may fill in for me here as I'm not 100% sure of all of this), debuffs are accounted for every tick. Sp/haste/crit values are updated on refresh, whether you're hard casting it or refreshing it through other means (Haunt, Drain soul etc). The only exception to this is Fel Flame. It will refresh the dot with it's current values.

Also, don't forget that if you refresh/recast a dot before the last tick is finished, it will be immediately applied on the refreshed one in the start. The only dot you don't want to do this with is BoA because of the mechanic of stronger ticks at the end.

#45 Jmickey

Jmickey

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 70 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:55 PM

As far as I know (other people may fill in for me here as I'm not 100% sure of all of this), debuffs are accounted for every tick. Sp/haste/crit values are updated on refresh, whether you're hard casting it or refreshing it through other means (Haunt, Drain soul etc). The only exception to this is Fel Flame. It will refresh the dot with it's current values.


The main thing to look for here is the difference between a refresh and adding to the duration. Fel Flame does not refresh the DoT, so it does not recalculate the numbers, simply extends the duration of the DoT in it's current state. Unlike Haunt/Drain Soul/HoG, which all refresh, as if it had been recast.

#46 uselessdk

uselessdk

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 04:45 PM

Could someone please post some information regarding a what rotation they are using in Destro spec for instance groups?

With all the intro CC my lock is involved in at the 85 level dungeons, I'm finding it hard to maintain a steady rotation. I understand that there is alot more "situational" casting now, which I like, but I'm looking for some input on what you seasoned locks are doing with your basic routine.

Typically I've been doing something like this:

Soulburn>SF>Immo>Conflag>BoD>CB>Inc (then it all gets situational)

I use FF to refresh Immo (on the move usually but also when stationary, due to the nature of instant refresh vs cast time by casting Immo again - lets me get back to more damaging spells easier.)

I'm also finding I need to cast Lifetap to get mana back during pretty much every boss fight, despite having replenishment spawning from 2 (I think) of the spells in my rotation: CB and SF. Are other Destro locks out there having issues with going OOM if you don't pay close attention? Or am I using too many unnecessary mana-draining spells in my rotation?

Any help much appreciated.

#47 padcoe

padcoe

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 05:21 PM

Could someone please post some information regarding a what rotation they are using in Destro spec for instance groups?

With all the intro CC my lock is involved in at the 85 level dungeons, I'm finding it hard to maintain a steady rotation. I understand that there is alot more "situational" casting now, which I like, but I'm looking for some input on what you seasoned locks are doing with your basic routine.

Typically I've been doing something like this:

Soulburn>SF>Immo>Conflag>BoD>CB>Inc (then it all gets situational)

I use FF to refresh Immo (on the move usually but also when stationary, due to the nature of instant refresh vs cast time by casting Immo again - lets me get back to more damaging spells easier.)

I'm also finding I need to cast Lifetap to get mana back during pretty much every boss fight, despite having replenishment spawning from 2 (I think) of the spells in my rotation: CB and SF. Are other Destro locks out there having issues with going OOM if you don't pay close attention? Or am I using too many unnecessary mana-draining spells in my rotation?

Any help much appreciated.


Its better if you do this:

Demon Soul - Cast always that is available
SoulBurn > SF - Cast always that is available
CoD - Corruption - Immolate - Chaos Bolt - Conflag - Spam Inc until you need to refresh dots!

#48 Darkdep

Darkdep

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 05:25 PM

For bosses, I use the following:

CoE > SF > Immo > BoD > Conflag > Corrup > CB > Inc spam

I use an addon called NeedToKnow that I've configured to show the debuff / cooldown times for the above to help me prioritize what to recast.

I haven't been in a lot of pugs where the CoE effect was being covered by anyone else, so I usually bring it into play. I start with CoE and (non-Soulburned) SF to give the tank some time to get aggro, and I cast BoD between Immo and Conflag because the half second or so delay for Conflag to become available after casting Immo bugs me and makes me feel idle.

If I happen to be in close proximity to the boss I will throw in Shadowflame before Incinerate. From there it becomes a priority list based on what has fallen off, with SF being top priority (Soulburned if available).

#49 turturin

turturin

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 267 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 05:27 PM

Could someone please post some information regarding a what rotation they are using in Destro spec for instance groups?

With all the intro CC my lock is involved in at the 85 level dungeons, I'm finding it hard to maintain a steady rotation. I understand that there is alot more "situational" casting now, which I like, but I'm looking for some input on what you seasoned locks are doing with your basic routine.

Typically I've been doing something like this:

Soulburn>SF>Immo>Conflag>BoD>CB>Inc (then it all gets situational)

I use FF to refresh Immo (on the move usually but also when stationary, due to the nature of instant refresh vs cast time by casting Immo again - lets me get back to more damaging spells easier.)

I'm also finding I need to cast Lifetap to get mana back during pretty much every boss fight, despite having replenishment spawning from 2 (I think) of the spells in my rotation: CB and SF. Are other Destro locks out there having issues with going OOM if you don't pay close attention? Or am I using too many unnecessary mana-draining spells in my rotation?

Any help much appreciated.


Some lifetap use is necessary, but take it easy on your healers and don't tap more than twice in a row. Use your cooldowns to help with the damage you take (death coil, nether ward, healthstone). Don't use fel flame to refresh immolate unless you're on the move. Your statement that you get back to dpsing faster using fel flame is false. In fact, you get back to dpsing at exactly the same time as the spells take exactly the same amount of time to cast. Using fel flame while stationary costs you the direct damage portion of immolate and provides no gain beyond what casting it would have provided.

Also, bane of doom is not a great choice in most heroic boss fights. They will either be to short, or have adds (in which case bane of havoc on the boss target is better. Corruption should also be used in your rotation with a higher priority than chaos bolt.

#50 Lepew

Lepew

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 09:42 PM

Does the new level 85 spell Demon Soul alter the choice of pet for affliction? Pre-cataclysm the idea was to use a succubus and spam shadow bolts. But Demon Soul with a Felhunter out ups periodic shadow damage by 20%, which seems to be a much bigger gain for affliction than 10% shadowbolt damage from the succubus under Demon Soul.

Also my understanding is that at high levels of mastery, life drain benefits from mastery and begins to approach shadowbolt spam. Is it viable then to move to a life drain affiliction spec with a felhunter and talent points Dark Arts to up your felhunter's damage by 15%, or is it still best sticking with shadowbolts and the succubus?

#51 Zeromas

Zeromas

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:26 PM

Hey all, looking at the talent trees and abilities of each, affliction and demonology have estabished execution-type rotations seperate from the regular rotation. (Drain Soul and Decimation respectively.)

When I look at the Destruction tree it seems Blizzard is trying to do something with an execution phase with the Improved Searing Pain and Shadowburn talents.

Has it already been established that talenting into these would be too much of a dps loss for a normal rotation all the way through vs. the execution phase with Shadowburn and Searing Pain spam?

#52 Demi9OD

Demi9OD

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 377 posts

Posted 14 December 2010 - 10:31 PM

Zeromas the searing pain nerf back in 4.0.1 was sufficiently severe to not only remove it from the +50% rotation but also from the -50% rotation. It is not worth speccing in to or using at any point now. Shadowburn however does have a higher DPCT than Incinerate and should be used during the -20% phase. The DPS increase from actually doing so is minimal though.

#53 Gorthan

Gorthan

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:38 AM

Fear and Pet Question.

I'm using the fear glyph for hc istances. Pet's state is "defensive".
When i cast fear on the designed target my pet starts to attack the feared target and that's bad.

Put my pet on "passive" state and macro the fireball to one of my spell (Immolate/Incinerate) will solve the problem?

Thanks.

#54 Tomu86

Tomu86

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 15 December 2010 - 02:53 PM

Fear and Pet Question.

I'm using the fear glyph for hc istances. Pet's state is "defensive".
When i cast fear on the designed target my pet starts to attack the feared target and that's bad.

Put my pet on "passive" state and macro the fireball to one of my spell (Immolate/Incinerate) will solve the problem?

Thanks.


What I do is put the pet on passive and use a

#showtooltip
/petattack
/cast Curse of the Elements

macro to get it attack the target that I curse. This stops it from attacking the cc'd target.

#55 Darkdep

Darkdep

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 15 December 2010 - 04:50 PM

The ISF buff (15% Spell Haste), is that 15% of your current haste or is it a "flat" 15%?

For example, if I wanted to get to the 30% haste point for an extra Immolate tick, can I assume that with ISF (15%) + DI (3%) in place, I would need 12% haste from gear to get that extra tick?

#56 Tomu86

Tomu86

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 15 December 2010 - 05:01 PM

The ISF buff (15% Spell Haste), is that 15% of your current haste or is it a "flat" 15%?

For example, if I wanted to get to the 30% haste point for an extra Immolate tick, can I assume that with ISF (15%) + DI (3%) in place, I would need 12% haste from gear to get that extra tick?

Haste gains, like most things in WoW, are multiplicative.

ISF (15%) and DI (3%) would result in 1.15 * 1.03 = 1.1845 = 18.45%

If you have 10% haste from gear and gain ISF and DI, this would result in 1.1 * 1.15 * 1.03 = 1.30295 = 30.02%

Note that is in fact more than if it was additive. (10 + 15 + 3 = 28)

#57 Jimbone

Jimbone

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 15 December 2010 - 07:03 PM

Does Bane of Havoc cause the shield barrier to go off on Omnitron Defense System?

I will be raiding for the first time next week so I have not had a chance to test it myself. I read on a different site that it should not be used because it does cause the barrier to go off. However, when looking through a few top ranked locks on World of Logs it shows a high percentage of their dps by Bane of Havoc. I also see it was used on each one of the constructs so I know it wasn't just used on Toxitron for extra dps while killing poison bombs.

#58 Demi9OD

Demi9OD

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 377 posts

Posted 15 December 2010 - 07:46 PM

Bane of Havoc and other incidentals such as Wandering plague do not set off the shields in this encounter, only direct attacks. It is useful to BoH and if you really want to push it, dot Toxitron's shield for the Expunge Poison damage.

edit: Be careful about using BoH on Magmatron. Though it is unlikely to break the shield on it's own, poor target switches and dots combined with multiple BoH could break the shield and cause a wipe.

#59 turturin

turturin

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 267 posts

Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:29 PM

Fear and Pet Question.

I'm using the fear glyph for hc istances. Pet's state is "defensive".
When i cast fear on the designed target my pet starts to attack the feared target and that's bad.

Put my pet on "passive" state and macro the fireball to one of my spell (Immolate/Incinerate) will solve the problem?


Yes, that will solve the issue. It's even a slight dps increase to macro fire bolt to all your spells as it "queues" your next imp spell instead of having to wait for the autocast latency.

#60 Guest_Adaya_*

Guest_Adaya_*
  • Guests

Posted 16 December 2010 - 05:48 AM

With the introduction of warlock fear CC expectations in dungeons, I have two pet problems.

I. Fear

A. Pet must not attack CC fear target. I do need them to attack my dps target.

Solution for fear cast without pet attack:

/petpassive
/cast Fear

Every time I think I have a macro right, there's a situation that proves otherwise (such as, my pet going straight
back to the fear target as soon as fear breaks or the pet going straight to the fear target when the first dps target is
down). I am not sure the following will work in all situations:

/petdefensive
/cast Immolate
/petattack[target=target]


II. Felguard Attack

Another pet problem I have involves my Felguard rushing to a target that is under CC by me or somebody else and I do not see the reason because it is not my dps target and I am not being attacked by the CC target.

I am worried somebody will reply "just keep on passive and hit attack." I would love to say I'm aware of every detail at once but I am not, especially with new rotations, so I often forget and I don't notice until I see my dps meter. [And yes, I have looked on wowikki and other sites but haven't found an answer.]

Thanks for any help you can give.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users