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Unholy DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, The Missing Frame


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#21 HellHamsterr

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:20 PM

If you're at 100RP and Sudden Doom Procs, you fire off a Death Coil. Say Runic Corruption procs, would it be better to wait till the buff fades before using another Death Coil, using a Rune ability and wasting RP, or burning RP with Death Coil and possibly clipping RC?


Althought machinegunning Deathcoils is not wise from a dps point of view due to wasting Runic Corruption procs, i think it's a priority to always be below the RP cap, due to losing possible death coils. So in your situation you use 2 deathcoils (one with Sudden doom and the other without) to get below the RP cap and then start using runes, and then repeat.

#22 Rojali

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 12:21 AM

Had the same issue. On Orbital Defense System (probably the first boss most people will fight in BWD) Desecration will cover the blue pools (which give mana/damage boost) and will cover the edge of Green poison pools (increase damage taken).

In the end I specced out of it and it did help the raids positioning.


I did not have the same experience, graphically. I was still able to see every ground effect with desecration active.

Desecration was "somewhat" helpful on the poison goo adds but any other slow is probably a more reliable way to handle them.

#23 Flopi

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 02:10 AM

I did not have the same experience, graphically. I was still able to see every ground effect with desecration active.


If I'm not mistaken there is an option to prioritize your own spell effects. That might be the cause of different appearances.

#24 Flagellum

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 02:46 AM

If I'm not mistaken there is an option to prioritize your own spell effects. That might be the cause of different appearances.


In the interface menu under display is a box you can check to emphasize your own spell effects so that your spells will be more visible than others. Though, its not just myself that was having problems seeing "don't stand in stupid" type things but others in my group as well.

#25 SuperiorityDK

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 05:06 PM

Hi,
you wrote that in DW 1 point Hit is worth 1,64.
This is till you have the 8% Hit Cap, isnt it?

Do you have a stat for Hit after the Hit cap?

And, do you also have Stats for Waapon DMG, DPS, Speed?

best regards
Trip


I did a quick sim using SimulationCraft while over hit cap and for all other stats got similar-ish values to the original post.

The value for hit, however, above the hit cap was .61, whereas crit was .62.

It seems for dual-wield unholy hit above the cap is around the level of crit or expertise, but still better than mastery.

I recommend people run their own simulations, though. I was using my own armory and SimulationCraft so the numbers could be different if you are raid geared and using Kahorie's Sim.

#26 dedmonwakeen

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 05:33 PM

Please remember that the default behavior in SimC for calculating Hit/Exp is to return the dps LOST when Hit/Exp is removed.

If you want to enforce positive scale deltas, use positive_scale_delta=1 or check the appropriate box in the Scaling tab.

#27 Taiyoken

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 06:39 PM

DoT mechanic question:

Do diseases update in real time for your current values of crit/str/mastery? I understand for other casters it does not update haste but I'm unsure of the other stats.

Basically if I pop something like Mark of Khardros - Item - World of Warcraft before I Outbreak and keep refreshing with FeS will the extra Mastery wear off 33 seconds in or will it just keep going until I forcibly refresh with Outbreak or IT/PS?

Same thing with Strength.

#28 Tr1p

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 06:44 PM

I did a quick sim using SimulationCraft while over hit cap and for all other stats got similar-ish values to the original post.

Thank you very much. I used SimCraft now for myself. Works pretty good.

use positive_scale_delta=1 or check the appropriate box in the Scaling tab.

I think he used "positive_scale_delta=1". If not, the scale is 1.86 instead of 0.36 for BiS

#29 HellHamsterr

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 09:29 PM

I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but on Magmaw you need to start dpsing when you are in melee range of the boss, otherwise your ghoul will just stand there doing nothing (hunters have it too from what i saw)... Like they are being out of range.

#30 shed

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 05:30 AM

I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but on Magmaw you need to start dpsing when you are in melee range of the boss, otherwise your ghoul will just stand there doing nothing (hunters have it too from what i saw)... Like they are being out of range.


You can move your ghoul into position as you run in with the tanks and place him right next to mele range.

#31 Kegbane

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 06:34 PM

I have a quick question about Disease damage.

Obviously the damage is related to your AP/Mastery when you apply the diseases, and you can carry them along at that level by renewing them with Festering Strike, for a while.

When you spread the diseases with Pestilence, does it carry over their current damage/duration? Or does it essentially reapply the diseases based on your current AP/Mastery with a brand new duration? Should be pretty quick and easy to test on the training dummies (but i'm at work!)

It also seems like we'd want to start a fight with Icy Touch/Plague Strike (to get diseases down and build some Runic Power quickly). Once Fallen Crusader procs, we pop a Strength or Mastery trinket and then reapply diseases with Outbreak (to get them both down in only 1 GC of the high DPS window), and then start DPSing hard. Does that sound right?

It seems less efficient to overwrite your diseases, but the damage difference between a "dry" disease and one boosted by Fallen Crusader/Trinkets can seem like as much as 40%, which is a "big deal" if you can spread them to other targets with Pest.

OR is the best bet to pop trinket immediately on engage and apply diseases then? What's worked best for you guys?

#32 Flin

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 12:57 AM

Pestilence applies new diseases, therefore they DO NOT roll the damage of any previous applications. They use your current stats.

#33 Kegbane

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 06:44 AM

Does it make sense then to save your Outbreak for when Unholy Strength/Trinket is popped (to save a GCD of max DPS time), or better to just use it early and get it on cooldown, and then reapply Icy Touch/Plague Strike when Unholy Strength/Trinket pop?

#34 kc102

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 08:19 AM

Disease damage is bad. Abysmal. Just apply them and then FeS and SS like normal.

#35 Rankochan

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 06:12 PM

One thing I'd like to add about the cape slot in the pre-hardmode BiS List is that the Drape of Inimitable Fate, which is a world drop is the exact same stat wise as the Glittering Epidermis. For easy comparison as proof here is the Wowhead comparison table

#36 Kegbane

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 04:11 PM

Disease damage is bad. Abysmal. Just apply them and then FeS and SS like normal.

Disease damage wound up being really high for me on Throne of the Four Winds, I think due to killing adds at Anshal (spreading them), and then all of the travel time involved flying between platforms. I would typically reapply right before leaving one area.

My character isn't optimized with diseases in mind of course, just making the most of what I have already.

#37 JMBattista

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 06:24 PM

UH on Al'Akir:
- Phase 3: forget the pet. He despawns and cannot be summoned back.This appears consistent for all pet classes.
- Phase 2: make sure your pet comes close to you, he can easily outrange DT if you are on opposite sides of the boss, and he will need healing for this.
- Phase 1: my pet glitched out, alot, and just stood there. Spamming passive until he starts moving again usually unstuck him and once he started attacking the boss it was fine.

Magic Absorption:
- If you max this out you can stand in, for example, the Void Zone effect on Therallion & Valiona and spam deathcoils for the full 7second (glyphed) duration and still have your RP go up o0. For single impact effects (like blackout) the additional bonus RP generation is basically meaningless. However on fights with low intensity constant damage the bonus is rather nice, since if you time it for when DT falls off you can spam your ghoul up to 5 stacks and still have a substantial amount of RP left over afterwards.

I'm not sure how to model a situation of 'infinite RP for 7s' surrounded by 'normal' periods with the sim, so if someone more experienced with it could try and model out if taking advantage of those situations is worth it I'd be most appreciative.

#38 optional22

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:05 AM

On Al Akir:

P1: Dump RP when he casts Burst of Wind, then pop AMS. Easy full RP bar. DnD/DC until you can get back to the boss.
P3: Your ghoul doesn't desummon. I saw my pet floating in the air attacking him. Hitting DT worked as well.

#39 frmorrison

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 01:19 AM

On the profession section, the Engineering description could use some changes. The only benefits are ilevel 359 helms, the Bombs, and the Tazik Shocker or Hyperspeed (this one seems better) glove tinker.

The Nitro Boosts in Cata have a chance to fail no matter where you are and failures can include killing you, so I wouldn't use that tinket nor list it as a benefit. While you can still use the Bombs, the better version is now High-Powered Bolt Gun - Item - World of Warcraft. There are also belt tinkers, and Cardboard Assassin looks to be the only useful one (it will taunt mobs and let them attack the dummy).

#40 Consider

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 01:46 AM

I'll touch it up, but the profession is nowhere near what it was in Wrath, and below most of its competitors.

Although I briefly touch upon it, I see no reason to go in-depth on the helmet; it's a perk, to be sure, but it doesn't scale, and thus will lose its usefulness quickly. All of the 372 dps helmets are superior to it, and it's only slightly superior than the 359 tier helmets, which (as Unholy, anyways), you're still better off using for set-bonus purposes. For raiders, it holds minimal value beyond the initial couple raid resets of the expansion.

As to the Bolt Gun, it's quite iffy. It triggers the GCD and has a 0.5 second cast time.; both of which hugely lessen its value. If it resets the weapon swing timer (which, based on the GCD/cast time, I would assume it does, but haven't heard confirmation either which way), then it's likely even worse than Saronite Bombs. It's better than nothing, sure, but not by much.

Tazik and Hyperspeed are both just absurdly weak. Tazik comes out slightly ahead, but you're talking 40 dps instead of 30.

By comparison, the 80 strength of other professions is approximately 240 dps. The Bolt Gun, even if you have the GCD to spare, even if it doesn't affect the weapon swing timer, and even if it always hits for its maximum damage, doesn't cover the 200 dps gap the profession has left after you factor in the glove tinker.




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