Jump to content


Photo

[Enhancement] Unleashing Elements, a Cataclysmic discussion (Now with more Fire Nova)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
197 replies to this topic

#181 Bainato

Bainato

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 06:54 AM

I was able to replicate Deztroer's results running him (correctly) through enhsim v2.4. Moving SS before LL results in approximately a 20dps increase raid buffed over the BiS priority. I get the same results with my own gear setup as well, about a 20dps increase. SS in any position other than before LL or after UE is a somewhat large dps loss.

Edit: Using the BiS config file and moving SS before LL results in the same ~20dps increase over the BiS priority.

#182 ziff

ziff

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 235 posts

Posted 23 May 2011 - 08:13 AM

I just tried it with the BIS gear setup but against the latest alpha version, 2.4.4. I'm seeing a much smaller difference from 26008 to 26020 by moving SS directly above. From looking at the breakout, it looks like the slight decrease in PPM from the various damage sources is made up by the large increase in SS PPM along with a smaller increase in Windfury, Flametongue and Lightning Shield PPM. The interesting thing is that the Lightning bolt PPM went down, which indicated that any extra Maelstrom procs just can't get consumed fast enough with the cooldown contention. This is born out by the large drop in Maelstrom efficiency from 84% to 77%, even though the PPM of Maelstron did go up slightly.

The interesting thing is if you swap the order of SS and LL and put SS directly below LL, there is a drop of ~ 100 dps. From doing a quick look at the output, my guess is that the PPM rate drop of the other damage sources just isn't offset enough by the PPM increase of Stormstrike, Windfury, Flametongue and Lightning Shield. I'm guessing what might be happening here is possibly a GCD issue between SS and LL. The reason I'm saying that is the uptime of Flame Shock goes down from slightly from 92.47% to 91.78% when you so the swap. That's indicating that switching the SS above LL is giving access to another GCD so Flame shock can be cast before the dot falls off.

#183 Stumpjiggies

Stumpjiggies

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 01 June 2011 - 05:27 AM

This is datamined information and I'm sure subject to change, but does anyone else find this weapon extremely interesting?

Eye of Purification - Items - Sigrie

After all we've been through with spell power weapons....spell power and expertise on the same item? Has Blizzard given in?

#184 Nerec

Nerec

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 01 June 2011 - 08:30 AM

I dont want to let your dreams burst like a bubble, but with a look at the hero version of the item, which got mastery, it is more possible that this axe never will come live with expertise. Moreover would be the 131 spirit wasted itemstats. As a result you would pick a other casterweapon with better itemisation.


But nevertheless, a axe with spellpower is very interesting! As far as I know, no other class can use axe as a spellweapon.

#185 swingmaster

swingmaster

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 01 June 2011 - 08:49 AM

I am fairly certain holy pallies could use it. That being said, it is a slow swing and high damage for a spellpower weapon. I would not doubt that it should be mastery and that they will nerf its DPS into the ground.... here's to hoping I'm wrong!!!

#186 Photek

Photek

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 28 posts

Posted 01 June 2011 - 09:10 AM

Concerning Call of Flame on PTR, currently it's adding 6 seconds of each Fire Nova hit regardless of how many times you use. That means that once you have 2/3 Flame Shocks up, you won't be recasting again on the same target ever. 15min FS up and rolling~

Posted Image


Now we only need something that could last long enough...

#187 davek

davek

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 04 June 2011 - 12:33 AM

I'm not sure if you'd want to do this, and it might be more useful for Ele, but if the "legs" are close enough on Lord Ryloth you might be able to keep Flame Shock rolling on both with selective Fire Nova use and simply Earth Shock away.

#188 Cochice

Cochice

    dorf

  • Members
  • 213 posts

Posted 08 June 2011 - 09:27 AM

Playing around on dummies tonight, it was pretty easy to keep multiple FS dots rolling indefinitely while maintaining a full priority.

The t12 bonus does not affect Searing Flames or Bolts, only non-totem fire damage. The tooltip on the set says the increase is 16% while the debuff claims 6%. Should be an easy test.

#189 Bombz

Bombz

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 09 June 2011 - 01:00 PM

A bit off topic but important nonetheless: The "Ask The Devs #10 - Damage Dealing (Questions)" forum is up and going. The forum is full for new posts but the current ones can be voted on for review.

Please search the enhance shaman topics that are valid and reasonable and vote for them. This poses a good opportunity for some changes. The topics include: Scaling, stat weighting, itemization, excessive hit requirements and more.

Ask The Devs #10 - Damage Dealing (Questions) - Forums - World of Warcraft

#190 Audrix

Audrix

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 09 June 2011 - 09:16 PM

Call of Flame on PTR

Back to the topic. Ok it is nice you can have 4 targets up with FS had a hard time with the 5th target. Trying to multitask didn't work out. It keeps going past 15 min I got mine up to 17-18 mins. I got bored and left the dummy targets. I can see the benefit for AOE fights. Maloriak HM is a good example where this is going to be great. Haven't test the new bosses in Firelands where AOE might be paramount.

My concern is more towards the technical side you might say. If we Fire Nova then Flame shock gets refreshed for 6 secs we keep doing this and it seems FS will at least get one tick off if you are doing a regular rotation with out FS. But I remember being talks on this forum about clipping FS that was bad, that sometimes you had to do it, etc.

So, lets say we are purely AOEing so we FS and FN every time the c/d is up then most likely FS wont tick. If we are trying a normal rotation if seems FS will tick at least once if you are hitting FN when everything else is on c/d.

So with the T12 bonus will be using FN as part of our regular rotation. Sorry maybe just rambling ideas due a bit of frustration towards the class changes that just create confusion or inaccurate play that have hunt us for quite some time. Seems like it is WoTLK all over again where depending the armor set bonus we have to change our rotation to get every bit of DPS we can but yet still not be at a decent point. I guess maybe that is why Ehn is the dying bread of Shamans and so many reroll to different other classes.

#191 Krutsik

Krutsik

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:21 AM

You can no longer clip dots. By refreshing a dot, the time remaining increases, but there will be no increased time before the next tick.

Secondly, why would you start using FN in your rotation with T12 set bonuses? The bonuses are:
  • Your Lava Lash gains an additional 5% damage increase per application of Searing Flames on the target.
  • Your Stormstrike ability also increases Fire damage you deal to that target by 6% (apparently the tooltip says 16% on the PTR).
This doesn't mean that FN still won't do any damage to the primary target rendering FN use during single target fights useless. We could only hope that our set bonuses changed our rotation, this would make things more interesting. The only change in our rotation, with the new bonuses, I can forsee is that we'll be using SS before LL when starting a fight or staying away from the boss for an extended period, to get the samage increase to LL.

#192 Brazos

Brazos

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:03 AM

* Unleash Wind now deals 175% weapon damage, up from 125%.
* Stormstrike now deals 225% weapon damage, up from 125%.

I'm glad to see they are 'buffing' us but this still seems pretty weak. First, I'm pretty sure SS already does 193% damage (not 125%) so it will receive only a modest increase if it is going to be 225%. Storm Strike's damage (both hands),for me, is always around 4-5%, so this ~15% buff will yield about 0.7% more damage. Unleash Wind damage has always been weak, about 1.5% of my damage, so this 40% buff will yield about 0.6% more damage. So as I see it, we get 1.3% more damage with these changes.

#193 Ryethe

Ryethe

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 176 posts

Posted 17 June 2011 - 04:22 AM

The number in the tooltip is after talent modifications and 2pc. 125 * (1.45 + 1.1) = 193%.

The tooltip value after the buff will be (in your tier 11): 225 * (1 .45 + 1.1) = 348%.

Your SS damage in current gear should go up roughly 80%.

#194 Brazos

Brazos

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 17 June 2011 - 06:42 AM

In current gear, this 80% buff to SS will add about 3.6% to our total damage and with the Unleash Wind change, we will see a total of about a 4% increase from current damage.

Taking T12 set bonuses into account and these changes, it appears that crit will become a bit more valuable than it is now. We now have 3 abilities that get 200% scaling from crit doing more damage than before, LL, SS and Unleash Wind. I speculate that it still won't be enough scaling to keep up with other classes though.

Our LL % increase from 2pT11 to 4pT12 would be: (1.25 * 1.06 - 1.1) / 1.1 = 0.2045 or 20.45%

Assuming LL does 15% of our total damage in 2pT11, we will see 4pT12 LL damage at 18% or a 3% increase. Taking the 2pT11 value of a 4% increase in damage from the new 4.2 changes results in a very rough estimate of 7% more damage coming from sources that receive 200% crit bonus in 4pT12.

Of course, as flurry and elemental devastation uptimes approach 100%, we naturally see diminishing returns from dps gained per point of crit through these talents. So ya, all in all, probably not the amount of secondary stat scaling increases we would like to see in order to keep us competitive.

On a side note, the fact that they are increasing the damage from abilities that scale from weapon damage will continue to help keep us from using caster weapons as our primary choice for single target dps.

#195 Naturtok

Naturtok

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:23 PM

Ello, I had an idea. As far as know, the only reason we use Flame Shock over Earth Shock is for the DoT that ends up causing Flame Shock to yield higher damage. Though with the recent change to Fire Nova via Call of Flame, would it be a good idea to put Fire Nova into a single target rotation in order to keep the DoT running, whilst using only Earth Shock? Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what the change does, I'm just seeing what you guys think.

#196 VileVoodoo

VileVoodoo

    Piston Honda

  • Allied Members
  • 148 posts

Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:40 PM

Ello, I had an idea. As far as know, the only reason we use Flame Shock over Earth Shock is for the DoT that ends up causing Flame Shock to yield higher damage. Though with the recent change to Fire Nova via Call of Flame, would it be a good idea to put Fire Nova into a single target rotation in order to keep the DoT running, whilst using only Earth Shock? Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what the change does, I'm just seeing what you guys think.


Fire Nova - Spell - World of Warcraft

Flame Shock ticks only increase in duration from the PTR Call of Flame on targets DAMAGED by Fire Novas. IE only usable in multi-mob/multi-boss encounters since Fire Nova never damages the same target with Flame Shock.

#197 Sidira

Sidira

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 24 posts

Posted 24 June 2011 - 11:11 PM

Ello, I had an idea. As far as know, the only reason we use Flame Shock over Earth Shock is for the DoT that ends up causing Flame Shock to yield higher damage. Though with the recent change to Fire Nova via Call of Flame, would it be a good idea to put Fire Nova into a single target rotation in order to keep the DoT running, whilst using only Earth Shock? Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what the change does, I'm just seeing what you guys think.



We also use it to consume the UE_Flame buff.

#198 Jessamy

Jessamy

    Struck by Diax's Rake

  • Moderators
  • 4,801 posts

Posted 28 June 2011 - 10:38 AM

Please continue discussion of enhancement shaman mechanics in the new thread. The OP of that thread is a guide post updated for 4.2 mechanics.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users