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[Enhancement] Unleashing Elements, a Cataclysmic discussion (Now with more Fire Nova)


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#21 epamafia

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:36 AM

What epic weapons did you sim with that? Did you try simming a DW of a couple of those "cookies" ? Since Wf is affected by weapon speed might be viable vs. the loss of stats.
Could you post some outputs from those sims?

Thank you.
Pardon any misspells

#22 SentinelBorg

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 12:39 PM

As far as I can tell, off of Nef is still 2.3, but I wouldn't count on that.

That weapon dropped yesterday for us and it is still at 2.3 speed with 53 DPS.

#23 Cochice

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 01:14 PM

That weapon dropped yesterday for us and it is still at 2.3 speed with 53 DPS.


Yea, I'm seeing that the normal version was not changed. However just the clarify, the heroic version was changed to 1.8 speed. The Cho'gall mace, on the other hand, is the other way around currently. Normal is fast and heroic is slow (We had it drop two days ago, so I can confirm that).

#24 Valclav

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 01:43 PM

Is there any point in getting the Glyph of Ghost Wolf if you have 2 points in Ancestral Swiftness? The talent says that it increases movement speed by 15% and doesn't stack, but I'm not sure if that means it increases only regular run speed by 15% or ghost wolf by 15% as well. Because, in the case that it does increase the ghost wolf by 15%, then there would be no point in getting the glyph, correct? By the way, I'm new to Sargeras and it's nice to see a fellow Alliance shaman on the server helping clarify some things about our class.

#25 Stopokingme

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:06 PM

The talent has two separate effects, one being to increase your base movement speed in normal form by 15%, the other being to reduce the cast time of Ghost Wolf by 2 seconds. So yes, using the glyph is beneficial with the talent.
Enchantment?

#26 revulva

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 11:50 PM

Just wanted to let you know that Team Robot is not continuing our Enhancement Simulator into Cataclysm. Our website has changed to provide easy to use gear comparison tools that will use stat weight values from the simulators that the community creates, once they become available. The site will optimize gear, gems, enchants, reforging, and support Armory loading.

We might write a simulator for classes we can't find good stat weights for, but enhancement shamans are covered very well with EnhSim, Rawr, and SimCraft.

Mr. Robot - World of Warcraft

For now, the site uses a simple stat "preference" algorithm to get people started on gear. An explanation is on the site. Stat weight functionality will be added within the first two weeks of January. Once stat weight values at typical gear levels start being posted, we will reference them on our site and default to them.

#27 Kitteh

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 12:04 AM

I don't seem to have the right posting style to make observations here without suffering infractions but something I REALLY wanted to bring up so if possible please try and see the merits of whats being suggested here. I've got little hard evidence to back it up except personal increases in DPS (briefly reaching 13.5k 10m buffed on the trash before magmaw when the star's aligned which is about as "tank n spank" as it gets at the moment).

Would: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft not be a better default enhance build?

Considering there's not THAT much trash we can AoE down flame nova seems like a waste of talent points. While improved shields doesn't add much at least it's dps we use on everything.

From the elemental side call of flame only improves the dot from searing totem. I'd think 3% increase in all damage except white hits and stormstrike would eclipse it in pretty short order? With searing's targetting being slightly bugged at the moment (though re-dropping after engaging seems to work fairly well) this likely does even less for us.

Finally the last point in Reverberation of course gives us our shocks more often which is likely the best use of the remaining point considering the space we have regarding our global cooldowns at the moment.


Sorry it's a bit crude by usual EJ standards. If it sparks any interest I will try and back it with some numbers etc but hopefully better qualified folks will save me stumbling over it and making a bigger fool of myself :) This ones very much "gut feelings" and personal observation at the moment.

If you have further questions, feel free to raise them, but keep in mind when so doing that I'm right, you're wrong, and that you're annoying me.

:keke:

#28 Rouncer

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 01:07 AM

Call of Flame doesn't affect the Searing Flames DoT, it affects Searing Totems damage. Searing Totem does around 10% of your total damage so CoF is a 20% boost on 10% or roughly a 2% total dps boost for 2 points. Elemental Precision affects around 60% of our total damage or 3% of 60% or roughly a 1.8% total dps boost for 3 points.

1% per talent point > 0.6% per talent point

#29 Kitteh

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 01:59 AM

Looking at world of logs for Baradin hold (which is fairly low on movement so would give searing it's best results) searing totem only seems to be doing around 2-3% of total dps (unless this doesn't also include the dot).

Looking a little closer searing flames is a further 3-4% so we're around 5-8% of total DPS.

That brings it down to 0.5-0.8% per talent point. I guess arguing "but they are possibly equal so i'm right" is rather foolish but it does seem to be a bit closer than it looks. 25m Baradin hold has searing totem (inc buff) doing about 4.5%. Looking at other fights 25m it dips as low as 3.5-4% total.

If you have further questions, feel free to raise them, but keep in mind when so doing that I'm right, you're wrong, and that you're annoying me.

:keke:

#30 Photek

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 02:15 AM

Looking at world of logs for Baradin hold (which is fairly low on movement so would give searing it's best results) searing totem only seems to be doing around 2-3% of total dps (unless this doesn't also include the dot).

Looking a little closer searing flames is a further 3-4% so we're around 5-8% of total DPS.

That brings it down to 0.5-0.8% per talent point. I guess arguing "but they are possibly equal so i'm right" is rather foolish but it does seem to be a bit closer than it looks. 25m Baradin hold has searing totem (inc buff) doing about 4.5%.


Someone posted something like that not so long ago, and Rouncer was the one that corrected that one guy. You are doing the same, you are reading WoL wrong. The percentage you are reading is the total percentage the totem did on the entire battle, not the percentage of the shaman damage.

#31 Elam

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 02:17 AM

Looking at world of logs for Baradin hold (which is fairly low on movement so would give searing it's best results) searing totem only seems to be doing around 2-3% of total dps (unless this doesn't also include the dot).

Looking a little closer searing flames is a further 3-4% so we're around 5-8% of total DPS.

That brings it down to 0.5-0.8% per talent point. I guess arguing "but they are possibly equal so i'm right" is rather foolish but it does seem to be a bit closer than it looks. 25m Baradin hold has searing totem (inc buff) doing about 4.5%.


The 2-3% damage done by Searing Totem is 2-3% of the raids total damage. If we look at Dragon's parse, Searing Totem does 2.09% of the raids total damage. Dragon himself does 20.76% of the raids damage. Searing Totem, then, is slightly higher than 10% of his damage before Searing Flames, which is another 3-4% of his damage.

#32 ziff

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 03:37 AM

I have a question for the class. With the current interest in running FT/FT, does the apply for each weapon? Or is it just 2% spell crit bonus, regardless on the which weapon has Flametongue on it?

#33 Rouncer

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 03:43 AM

Ziff it's 2% spell crit per weapon. It shows up on the paper doll when you go FT/FT with that glyph in place.

The 2-3% damage done by Searing Totem is 2-3% of the raids total damage. If we look at Dragon's parse, Searing Totem does 2.09% of the raids total damage. Dragon himself does 20.76% of the raids damage. Searing Totem, then, is slightly higher than 10% of his damage before Searing Flames, which is another 3-4% of his damage.



Call of Flames doesn't affect Searing Flames. It only affects the Totem but everything else they've said is right on the money. When you look at your personal damage breakdown after clicking your name you are only seeing your personal damage, which doesn't include pets like searing totem and spirit wolves. To get an accurate breakdown of what Call of Flame adds you have to takes it's damage and then divide by the total damage for the character.

So looking at Arcaik's 10 man parse (not going to EU armory or that alt code name)
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

They are specced CoF so that means without those 2 points their Searing Totem would have done 274,127 damage. Meaning CoF was worth 54,825 damage. If they had moved those 2 points in Elemental Precision instead they would have worked on 2,047,188 of their damage. 2% of that being 40,943

54,825 > 40,943

#34 Elam

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 03:45 AM

I have a question for the class. With the current interest in running FT/FT, does the apply for each weapon? Or is it just 2% spell crit bonus, regardless on the which weapon has Flametongue on it?



Just checked in game. Yes it does.

#35 ziff

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 04:07 AM

Ziff it's 2% spell crit per weapon. It shows up on the paper doll when you go FT/FT with that glyph in place.


Awesome, thanks. The glyph is currently bugged in the sim, since before 4.0.3 it didn't seem to show up on the paper doll. I'll fix that.

#36 Rouncer

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 07:01 AM

Ziff, I reopened that ticket. Sim needs to account for the glyph since people should be copying their stats from their paper doll without any active weapon enchants and without the FT enchants on the weapons the effects from the glyph won't show on the paper doll.

#37 ziff

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 12:26 PM

Ziff, I reopened that ticket. Sim needs to account for the glyph since people should be copying their stats from their paper doll without any active weapon enchants and without the FT enchants on the weapons the effects from the glyph won't show on the paper doll.


Ahh, good point. I'lll switch it so it handles both weapons.

#38 draghkar

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:46 PM

If simulator is right, enchant for weapons should be:


landslide > mongoose > hurricane

#39 Rouncer

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 11:20 PM

Mongoose is wrong. The sim isn't handling the enchant properly. The proc gives 120 agility and 30 haste rating but I think the sim is set up so that it is treating the haste buff as 2% melee attack speed.

EnhSim - EnhSim - View Issue #7755: Mongoose Weapon Enchant

#40 ziff

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:25 AM

Mongoose is wrong. The sim isn't handling the enchant properly. The proc gives 120 agility and 30 haste rating but I think the sim is set up so that it is treating the haste buff as 2% melee attack speed.

EnhSim - EnhSim - View Issue #7755: Mongoose Weapon Enchant


Just a note, I've released a new version of the sim EnhSim 2.2.7, which should fix the mongoose enchant. Here's the current order based off of a quick run enchanting the main weapon using the default config file:

landslide > avalanche > berserker > mongoose > hurricane

Obviously you should sim it based on your own equipment, but even with the reduced haste effect mongoose is still showing to be a reasonable enchant. Also, don't forget about poor lonely Berserker. It's showing to be pretty reasonable still as well.




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