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Frost DPS | Cataclysm 4.0.6, This Is My Life


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#461 deandrez

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 07:20 AM

NaeblisHyjal, very good point. The only thing I'm skeptical in is waiting time that the BT+UP brings 7.13% is like almost not doing anything 1/10 of the time. That's kind of iffy seeing as how RE procs are extremely random in a lot of cases and don't necessarily work in our favor. Some part of me thinks there is flaws (bugs) in the Simucrafts for UP. oh and the side by side comparison with the max damage is looking incorrect. There should be a 12-15% (FP) damage difference in the min-max and avg damage of each hit. It looks as if like there's only a 3-5% difference in the side by side comparison.

#462 Krabà t

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 08:00 AM

Something to note is that the Blood Tap spec has about the same amount of obliterates as the epidemic spec, yet it has to refresh it's diseases manually more often. What this means is that it is getting extra obliterates from runes generated by frost strike which in turn leads to more RP and frost strikes. This explains why there are more frost strikes generated in the Blood Tap Spec. Not to mention the extra point in butchery ;p

However, I am by no means excellent at math. This is why I use sims and why I analyze them as much as I can with what math I do know.
If someone else can show me something that I am missing please let me know! I am just trying to figure out the best spec and stat weights for 4.1 like the rest of you.


What settings did you use to generate those Results?


@deandrez
RNG is the core of the Frost Speccs.
You won't be able to model those RE-Proccs properly.
For the thoughts on FP vs UP. UP will be superior and this was discussed some sides ago.

#463 NaeblisHyjal

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 08:10 AM

NaeblisHyjal, very good point. The only thing I'm skeptical in is waiting time that the BT+UP brings 7.13% is like almost not doing anything 1/10 of the time. That's kind of iffy seeing as how RE procs are extremely random in a lot of cases and don't necessarily work in our favor. Some part of me thinks there is flaws (bugs) in the Simucrafts for UP. oh and the side by side comparison with the max damage is looking incorrect. There should be a 12-15% (FP) damage difference in the min-max and avg damage of each hit. It looks as if like there's only a 3-5% difference in the side by side comparison.


I pointed out that the max damage of each ability shouldn't be considered when comparing the two because the max damage are achieved through cooldowns and procs. So the max damage of each spec would have a pretty wide range. I think it is better to look at the average damage because the damage increase from the procs and cooldowns will be relative across all data points during that period of time.

If you look at the base damages, I will use Frost Strike as an example here, Epidemic FP is dealing 12688. 12% of that is 1522. So if you subtract that from FP's damage you get 11,166 which is pretty close to the side by side average frost strike hit that BT UP offers which is 11,307.


What settings did you use to generate those Results?


Here is a screenshot of my settings.
The screenshots on the very bottom is the action list priority right before I click sim.
On the left is Epidemic FP and on the right is Unholy UP.
I realize that the image is quite large and may shrink on some browsers, you should be able to click on it to zoom in.
Simcraft Settings

#464 xbit

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 05:15 PM

4.1 DPS Scaling
Stat scaling from simc 406-20 on svn, DW frost 7/31/3 spec using my own gear in unholy presence. For reference, the 0 point on that graph has haste=1970, crit=729, mastery=1059, expertise=690 (human +3 exp bonus).

The scaling seems to suggest that between ~1800 and ~2300 haste, haste, crit, and mastery are completely equal. Crit and mastery are clearly equal everywhere (and therefore mastery > crit for AoE benefit). I haven't been able to find a reason for this lull in the value of haste, or rather, why it would then increase again at ~2300. I did another sim at +400 haste, and there was still 6.36% waiting, so the spec isn't GCD capped. The only thing I can think of is that from -1000 to 0, haste gradually tapers off as it naturally does as one approaches the GCD cap (more iterations run into periods of being capped from RNG, even if on average it is not). Then, at around 2300 haste, there is a "breakpoint" of sorts where the additional haste allows something to occur that results in extra dps, like extra HoT ticks for resto druids. I just have no idea on what that something is, or if it even exists or is just an artifact of the simulator.

Edit: I may have found the source. The exact values seem to be a product of the simulator (based on default wheel granularity and aura delay, re-simming to confirm), however, it seems to be linked to rune regen times becoming multiples of the GCD. Essentially, there should be a dps increase associated with runes that are not RE'ed back to full coming off CD at the same time your GCD is up, hence not waiting fractions of a GCD to be able to use them. The value of this on live should be at 11.1%, 25%, 42.9% haste (9, 8, 7 seconds). Latency should not be a factor due to the spell queue system.

#465 rh8452

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 11:40 PM

Edit: I may have found the source. The exact values seem to be a product of the simulator (based on default wheel granularity and aura delay, re-simming to confirm), however, it seems to be linked to rune regen times becoming multiples of the GCD. Essentially, there should be a dps increase associated with runes that are not RE'ed back to full coming off CD at the same time your GCD is up, hence not waiting fractions of a GCD to be able to use them. The value of this on live should be at 11.1%, 25%, 42.9% haste (9, 8, 7 seconds). Latency should not be a factor due to the spell queue system.

This is interesting, but does the sim take into account the rune pushback bug? Because runes push back half a second whenever you use glyphed howling blast or outbreak, being at a breakpoint will be less useful than it would seem.

Maybe this bug is fixed on the PTR but I haven't heard any rejoicing over it yet so I assume not.

#466 xbit

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:40 AM

This is interesting, but does the sim take into account the rune pushback bug? Because runes push back half a second whenever you use glyphed howling blast or outbreak, being at a breakpoint will be less useful than it would seem.

Maybe this bug is fixed on the PTR but I haven't heard any rejoicing over it yet so I assume not.

It does not, but I recall reading somewhere that it is fixed on the PTR. I guess we'll find out Tuesday.

#467 HellHamsterr

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 12:35 PM

This is interesting, but does the sim take into account the rune pushback bug? Because runes push back half a second whenever you use glyphed howling blast or outbreak, being at a breakpoint will be less useful than it would seem.

Maybe this bug is fixed on the PTR but I haven't heard any rejoicing over it yet so I assume not.


I made a ticket a while ago about both Gargoyle meleeing as well as Howling blast glyph and Outbreak causing a rune pushback, this is the response I got.

http://i51.tinypic.com/eqoy7r.jpg

#468 deandrez

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 03:02 AM

So a brief summary about tomorrow... DW should be done in UP and haste>crit=mastery except in AE situations. This post is just in case anyone is still wondering. Oh and Crushing Weight even in normal mode is still better then the Hurricane trinket.

#469 Krabà t

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 07:16 AM

Oh and Crushing Weight even in normal mode is still better then the Hurricane trinket.


Why do you come to that conclusion? I don't see Crushing Weight pulling ahead of the Cardset (2 to 3% of our total Damage, done by the Procc is just too much)

#470 Dopameany

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 12:07 PM

So a brief summary about tomorrow... DW should be done in UP and haste>crit=mastery except in AE situations. This post is just in case anyone is still wondering. Oh and Crushing Weight even in normal mode is still better then the Hurricane trinket.


And for further clarification, the blood tap spec is where we wanna be as well then? Also, how close are we showing DW/2H to be right now?

#471 xbit

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:19 PM

And for further clarification, the blood tap spec is where we wanna be as well then? Also, how close are we showing DW/2H to be right now?

Yes. About 350 dps in favor of DW with full BiS as of the latest simc. Equal for all practical purposes IMO.




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