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Hunter Simple Questions / Simple Answers: Cataclysm Edition


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#21 R00k!3

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 04:22 AM

Well actually Explosive Shot should be your top damage shot and since it scales exclusively with attackpower, why would you pass on 30% of your attackpower.

ps. Does anybody know if the WL dot buff works with SV. I know the proc itself works but is our damage actually influenced by it?

#22 Desaan

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 04:32 AM

Well actually Explosive Shot should be your top damage shot and since it scales exclusively with attackpower, why would you pass on 30% of your attackpower.

ps. Does anybody know if the WL dot buff works with SV. I know the proc itself works but is our damage actually influenced by it?


I said that auto shot was one of my top three damage sources but not THE top, obviously that spot goes to ES followed by a glyphed Steady Shot and then auto. Obviously this is just on a single target, AOE changes things to some degree.

#23 mako

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 04:45 AM

As with most of the current spec's I'm finding auto shot to be one of my top 3 damage sources and what's not to like about an extra 15% haste for 8 seconds with the Steady Shot talent? I usually roll with a warrior in my group for heroics so I'm seeing very little difference between my Steady and Cobra shot damage.


At least for Survival, the gap between steady and cobra shots will widen as you obtain gear. Cobra benefits from mastery, Steady doesn't. Steady doesn't add duration to serpent sting, cobra does.

If you talent into improved steady shot, you either miss out on one with nature (free attack power) or sick 'em, both of which seem fairly important. Plus, survival doesn't have the focus to be wasting it on recasting serpent sting. I haven't played BM enough to determine if it's viable to use steady, but losing the serpent sting "refresh" would make the spec rather frustrating to play.
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#24 Squall13

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:17 AM

For those of you who are suggesting a BA>SrS>ES or SrS>BA>ES opener/rotation

The 10% damage buff doesn't outweigh the loss you get from delaying your highest DPS shot by 34% (2 GCDs)

ALWAYS, always, fire ES first.

Also, arcane would not ALWAYS be your focus dump though it mostly is. There would be scenarios where you would have to use Kill Command as Survival.

When you get lucky Thrill of the Hunt procs and your LnL also procs, there would be situations where you have 2 free Explosive shots at your disposal while sitting at > 80 focus and BA is on CD. This is when you should use Kill Command

ES > KC > ES > Arcane/Steady > ES

#25 Moyotoshi

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:08 AM

I've found that if I'm firing my highest damage shot available at any given moment, I never come close to focus capping, even during a LnL proc. ES>BA>SrS>CoS>AS is my standard opener, and I always monitor to make sure I'm hitting the highest damage shot. My focus bar is usually fluctuating between 0 and 44, so when I get an LnL proc, I instinctively fire ES>CoS>ES>AS>ES. The first Cobra Shot usually puts me at enough focus for the AS>ES at the end, and if it doesn't, I replace the Arcane with a Cobra and delay the Arcane until after the Explosive. I have had nothing but excellent luck this way.

I didn't think I'd like it, but Trap Launcher has become my best friend. Forcing LnL procs simply by maintaining my CC? Hell yes! My trap may last 1.3 minutes, but I'm refreshing it every 24 seconds. :D

#26 pichuca

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:41 PM

You should always SS your target first, 2/2 Noxious Sting increases your damage on said target by 10% whilst active.


I've been using this spec with some success Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and generally my rotation goes something like this - Serpent Sting > BA > ES > Steady Shot > Steady Shot> Cobra Shot. Usually by that point a single target is almost dead at least on heroic by which point Kill Shot takes priority. In the case of TNT procs I continue my normal rotation to some degree by at least keeping up the Steady Shot talent haste buff and throwing in the Explosive shots before the first and after the last Steady Shots using AS to dump focus.

It's a judgement call mostly depending on thrill of the hunt procs and how much focus your sitting on but even using Arcane Shot as a dump can still net you a reduced shot cost but that doesn't happen too often, just stick with the rotation and keep an eye on your focus and don't mash ES on TNT proc's. Takes some practice but you get into a groove after a while.


No one should NEVER use steady shot as SV. There´s no reason at all. Cobra shot hits for almos TWICE the damage of a Steady shot. Also Careful Aim is an abysmal DPS increase during the first 20% of the fight

Just checking some public settings:

Best buff/debuffs on

Cobra shot average crit 17087. Average hit 8543

Steady shot average crit: 10527. Average hit 5263

This setup has very low mastery, 584. I will check with my own character as soon as armory import is aviable, but with 1500 mastery (!6.64) spect a higher difference.

#27 Desaan

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 04:35 PM

I'll try some more rotations with Cobra Shot then, initially I was unimpressed with its damage scaling but I guess that's going to be that way in dodgy blues/greens.

I can't test this or find out at the moment but can anyone confirm that the 8% magic damage debuff from pets such as the Dragonhawk effect the likes of Cobra, ES and BA?

#28 pichuca

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 05:13 PM

Yes, it also affects SrS

About cobra vs steady, I think that´s the wrong battle. Im my opinion, as we get better geared we will see a bigger difference thanks to the increased mastery available on items. At that moment, we should discuss about Cobra VS Arcane shot, as it could be possible to remove it completely from our priority

#29 Dralmoo

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 05:53 PM

I've tested a few different profiles at femaledwarf.com, and it tends to suggest that Crit is the #1 stat for Survival Hunters. But I've noticed the vast majority of Hunters with top ranked parses on WoL are favoring mastery/haste at the expense of crit. I realize there are only a relatively small number of hunter parses available at this point, but I'm curious if anyone has any theories that would explain the discrepancy.

#30 tamarack928

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:48 PM

I am still a little unclear about survivals Mastery. Can someone help break this down for me lemming style.

Agi is the primary stat as still determined to date.

Then we're looking at what? If i swap out a piece of gear with haste for crit it goes down.

I'm seeing a lot of mastery being pushed down my throat but it's making me have some decisions between crit/haste/mastery.

I'm completely ok with understanding the hit cap but when it comes to balancing the other 3 in either survival or MM i get a little lost and I play between both specs but at least i understand MM's wild quiver. I'm not quite clear on what they mean by elemental damage. I read some Blue posts trying to clear this up but it's not clicking.

Thanks!

#31 mako

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:32 PM

Simply put, Mastery increases survival's damage from every magic-damage attack that you deal. That means explosive shot, arcane shot, black arrow, serpent sting, cobra shot and explosive trap all benefit.

Kill shot, Auto shot, steady shot and your pet do not gain benefits.
It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
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#32 taaveti

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:50 PM

(As SV) Should we be using multishot to apply the poison instead of serpent sting?
Since we may have to use it quite a lot depending on amounts of adds.

#33 Duw

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 12:35 PM

(As SV) Should we be using multishot to apply the poison instead of serpent sting?
Since we may have to use it quite a lot depending on amounts of adds.


Single Target still use serpent sting due to the cheaper focus cost compared to multishot. However, is there are multiple adds which aren't needed to be cc'd then multishot definitely has its uses. Situational I guess, depends on your amount of focus, whether there's an urgency to nuke down a specific add rather than aoe, and cc.

#34 Juurikkala

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 04:10 PM

I'd like to know what abilities do snakes from snake trap have? If I haven't seen dreams, I've read ages ago that some of them are slowing enemies and some are interrupting. Is there something else usefull and am I correct on those ones?

#35 Fafiq

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:23 PM

Wowwiki quote
" The snakes have 3 rogue-style poisons:
Crippling Poison: Enemy movement speed is reduced by 50%.
Mind-Numbing Poison: Enemy spell-casting speed is decreased by 50%.
Deadly Poison: Enemy gets 15 nature damage over 12 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.
[...]
Snakes at level 80 have 107 hp and 9729 armor.
The Vipers hit for 38-53. 4 of these appear.
The Venomous Snakes hit for 16-24. 4 of these appear.
Both types of snakes use all 3 of the different poisons (Crippling, Mind-Numbing, and Deadly)."

Link can be found here Snake trap

Also, I've read somewhere (wowinsider?) that SV dmg is also boosted by pet's 8% spell dmg boost (Wind Serpent?). Is it true, because I couldn't find any information about this. In this case considering let's say our personal dps will be better with 8% spell or physical dmg debuff?

#36 Guest_26thraider_*

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 03:09 AM

The 8% spelldamage debuff does in fact improve Survival's damage rather handedly. It affects all hte abilities that don't do physical damage. This outweighs the Sunder effect and the 4% physical damage effect. However the best pet provided buff is the Strength of Earth effect from Cats for instance.

#37 Deghuran

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 07:54 AM

What about the meta for SV? As far as I knows the Chaotic Aurora Diamond still has the requirement to have more blues than reds, hasn't it? So should we use as SV the thundering one to increase our haste? I saw at severell sides that probably for SV Haste > Crit > Mastery is assumed (hard to prove, I know). Does anybody know when Blizz will fix the Meta issue?

Second question: Agi outweights the secondary stats by approx. 4:1 (I saw similar numbers all around). So an old enchant (e.g. on back) with 22 Agi should be better than the new one with e.g. 65 crit, right? But does that also mean that old wrist enchants with 50AP is better than the new ones with 65 crit or haste? can I just assume 2 AP can be converted in 1 agi?

#38 Duw

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 11:02 AM

I'm looking for a reminder on the lock and load mechanics, specifically regarding the internal cooldown associated with it. I don't think the tooltip specifies the cooldown duration anymore. I guess if the mechanics are well understood, we could use an addon to track when LNL is able to proc. This would help us time frost or ice traps to ideally increase LnL uptime.

#39 Duw

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 11:12 AM

Second question: Agi outweights the secondary stats by approx. 4:1 (I saw similar numbers all around). So an old enchant (e.g. on back) with 22 Agi should be better than the new one with e.g. 65 crit, right? But does that also mean that old wrist enchants with 50AP is better than the new ones with 65 crit or haste? can I just assume 2 AP can be converted in 1 agi?


No, 2AP doesn't equal 1 agility. Agility gives 2AP and crit chance remember.

The point of the old Agility enchant, perhaps so - though remember that the secondary stat weightings do fluctuate a lot.

#40 McGarnicle

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 06:34 PM

I'm not sure this is the correct spot to ask, but does anyone have any tips or suggestions, macros etc, to help with this auto-targeting/auto-shot issue? I've had my fill of pulling non aggressive trash in Lost City or breaking CC after my targeted mob dies mid cast of a cobra shot or a auto shot (for example) fires off. I do try to watch the health of the mob, and also try to make a conscious effort to combat this problem, but it's (and I'm) not perfect. I've twice now been booted from randoms due to this and it's quite frustrating.




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