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Warrior: Simple Questions/Simple Answers


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#21 Emeraude

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 01:12 AM

So I've noticed that I'm quite constantly able to squeeze in a 4th attack into Colossus Smash with maybe .2 or .3 seconds left on the debuff, this shouldn't be possible normally unless blizzard allowed haste to lower the GCD on instant abilities(Melee, not caster, I know they changed it for casters a while ago) and somebody didn't tell me?

Or it could be that the debuff is just applied .2-.3 seconds later, anyone experiencing similar?

Edit:

CS-> Execute 4x is almost 100%.
CS->BT-RB->BT->Slam really tight, but doable.
BT->RB->BT->Slam-> not doable.

Hypothesis is that the GCD is lower on Slam/Execute, allowing us to squeeze in that 4th extra attack, more testing required.
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#22 siliconminded

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 09:46 AM

I'm trying to evaluate prot mastery, can anyone clarify how Critical Block affects my chance to be hit? (preferably in terms of the hit table and 1- or 2- roll theory) If I have 10 Mastery, I gain 15% block and 15% critical block, does that mean I've reduced my chance to take a regular hit by 30%?

#23 Themess

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:00 AM

My question: Fury spec - "Deep Wounds 3/3 vs Incite 3/3"

This probably will be a back and forth as gear progressively gets better.

My theory:
Incite gives a 100% chance to give a crit on next HS and 15% crit on HS (additional), but Deep wounds does 48% of your weapons *average damage* over 6 seconds.

I'm thinking Deep Wounds 3/3 and Incite 2/3.

As we get more gear, that 15% crit would be mute because we'll have so much crit anyway. So rather than go for the crit go for the direct damage. Furthermore, Incite has a 6 sec (Internal or Regular?) Cooldown.

Thoughts or comments?


I've been getting better results from 3/3 incite. I did some tests on the dummies and found around 8.2% of my damage was done by DW, compared to 16.3% from HS (average). I swapped the point around to 3/3 incite and the average deep wounds damage was about the same at 8.1% and in addition HS's average damage increased to 17.2%.

#24 Brissa

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:31 AM

I've been getting better results from 3/3 incite. I did some tests on the dummies and found around 8.2% of my damage was done by DW, compared to 16.3% from HS (average). I swapped the point around to 3/3 incite and the average deep wounds damage was about the same at 8.1% and in addition HS's average damage increased to 17.2%.


That sounds like either a statistical anomaly or a bug. There is no way that makes mathematical sense when you consider that a 50% increase in the damage ouput of an ability (going from 32% average weapon damage to 48%) would result in an overall improvement of the damage from that ability by 1%

#25 Emerassi

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 07:40 PM

That sounds like either a statistical anomaly or a bug. There is no way that makes mathematical sense when you consider that a 50% increase in the damage ouput of an ability (going from 32% average weapon damage to 48%) would result in an overall improvement of the damage from that ability by 1%


He's using percentage of his total damage done, which is a totally useless metric, because any increase in one area will affect the total damage done and change all of the percentages.

It is possible for this to happen however if he got lucky and the increased crit rate on heroic strike gave him more flurries and more deep wounds procs, so they do less damage base, but would be up more often.

#26 Themess

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 12:48 AM

That sounds like either a statistical anomaly or a bug. There is no way that makes mathematical sense when you consider that a 50% increase in the damage ouput of an ability (going from 32% average weapon damage to 48%) would result in an overall improvement of the damage from that ability by 1%


My point wasn't that deep wounds damage increased, but rather that it stayed pretty much exactly the same with 2/3 as it did 3/3, most likely from the increased uptime 3/3 incite provides. This wasn't a serious parse however (only 2 sets of 20 million damage with no specials), which is something i'm working on currently.


EDIT:

He's using percentage of his total damage done, which is a totally useless metric, because any increase in one area will affect the total damage done and change all of the percentages.

It is possible for this to happen however if he got lucky and the increased crit rate on heroic strike gave him more flurries and more deep wounds procs, so they do less damage base, but would be up more often.


Which is, if I am not mistaken, the entire point of my post. Incite 3/3 means DW is up more, but ticks for less. You do about the same damage with DW whether you go 2/3 or 3/3 is what this seems to indicate (again, doing more parses to clarify and account for variance), so the last point looks like Incite is the better place for it at the minute. If anyone has any parses then please post them so we can compare the data.

#27 Datachanger

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 06:44 AM

I have done some looking around on the forums for the official EH value for armor.
I have been relatively unsuccessful on finding a solid number. I think it’s looking around 3-4 points of armor (from what I've been looking around at). Has there been a definate number calculated?
The reason I ask is to determine the benefit of for tanking.
Thank you.

#28 Alexxcri

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 11:23 AM

Could someone explain to me why Rude Interruption is better than Executioner please? For Arms of course. I know white damage isn't too big a part of our damage but RI still seems like pretty situational to me

#29 Anduryondon

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 12:11 PM

You can't say that one is better than the other, because these talents are very situational. There are many fights where you need burst at <20% without any interrupts (Halfus, Ascendend Council, Chimaron, Maloriak) so at these fights you want to take Executioner because you want to kill the boss quickly. There are a few bosses where you could think about going for RI (Omnitron Defense System, probably Cho'gall because Arms burst is strong vs these tentacles, maybe Nefarian if you want to have a quick phase 2).
If you still run heroics RI is a better option, because you have many things to interrupt and bosses die quickly at 20%.

#30 Rhaegor

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 06:29 AM

I'm trying to evaluate prot mastery, can anyone clarify how Critical Block affects my chance to be hit? (preferably in terms of the hit table and 1- or 2- roll theory) If I have 10 Mastery, I gain 15% block and 15% critical block, does that mean I've reduced my chance to take a regular hit by 30%?


From what I believe, no.

Blocking reduces 30% of the damage taken, and a critical block will reduce 60%. Meaning that you have a 15% chance to block, and a 15% chance to get a critical block on that. If i'm wrong correct me, but from seeing another post mentioning this that is how it goes.

#31 Rhaegor

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 06:31 AM

Does the extra swing from arms mastery, Strikes of Opportunity, generate rage?

#32 Miloh

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 06:45 PM

You can't say that one is better than the other, because these talents are very situational. There are many fights where you need burst at <20% without any interrupts (Halfus, Ascendend Council, Chimaron, Maloriak) so at these fights you want to take Executioner because you want to kill the boss quickly. There are a few bosses where you could think about going for RI (Omnitron Defense System, probably Cho'gall because Arms burst is strong vs these tentacles, maybe Nefarian if you want to have a quick phase 2).
If you still run heroics RI is a better option, because you have many things to interrupt and bosses die quickly at 20%.


If still running Heroics, you can go for the "third" option of Blood and Thunder instead of Executioner or Rude Interruption. That is, increased AoE capability (Thunderclap to put Rend on all mobs) at the cost of situational damage increases. (Of course, this assumes you have a capable tank to deal with your threat.)

<Subjective opinion> Blood and Thunder is also a hell of a lot of fun.

#33 Shan

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:32 AM

With the Thunderstruck talent, is Rend -> TC x 3 -> Shockwave -> TC x 3 -> Shockwave etc. a dps increase on single targets?

If so, how does it compare to Deep Wounds from a dps per talent point view?

#34 Rafale

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 03:31 PM

Warriors receive rage when their attack is dodged or not?

#35 KopiG

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:12 PM

Actually this concerns basically every masteries in the game:So lets say i have 22.18 mastery rating which translates according to the game 44% chance for SoO strikes.My question is that the 0.18% wasted till i reach 22.5 then it becomes 45% or it adds up just the UI(game) wont show decimals like 44.x% chance for SoO to proc.So my question is that it works like expertise where every x*1.0 mastery counts only so if i have 0.99 then i wasted all 0.99 or it adds up just the UI wont show.
Looking forward for an answer thank u and sorry if this had been posted somwhere already i havent found anything

#36 Jackaran

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 09:47 PM

Actually this concerns basically every masteries in the game:So lets say i have 22.18 mastery rating which translates according to the game 44% chance for SoO strikes.My question is that the 0.18% wasted till i reach 22.5 then it becomes 45% or it adds up just the UI(game) wont show decimals like 44.x% chance for SoO to proc.So my question is that it works like expertise where every x*1.0 mastery counts only so if i have 0.99 then i wasted all 0.99 or it adds up just the UI wont show.
Looking forward for an answer thank u and sorry if this had been posted somwhere already i havent found anything


Where is your question?

I'm going to assume you're asking that - Decimals that don't equal to a full number are wasted?

I'm pretty sure this is true. Like most things In game. Exception is: Hit rating and I wanna say Critical hit chance.

Could someone explain to me why Rude Interruption is better than Executioner please? For Arms of course. I know white damage isn't too big a part of our damage but RI still seems like pretty situational to me


PVP: Spell casters have a HUGE adventage versus melee. Assuming you know that Pummel is usable in Battle Stance(4.0), 5% damage for 15/30 seconds can increase the damage of your Overpower or Mortal Strike by a signifcant amount.

Trying a rotation like Rend > Pummel > Mortal Strike > Colossal Smash > Overpower can next to cripple a spell caster and force them to pop a Cooldown.

PVE: It's situational - This will always be the response you get. Some fights you'll need it while others you won't. It's your call if you want to keep running back to the Trainer to respec your arms tree.

The idea and purpose behind Rude Interruption is to give incentive and reward for interrupting a target. That 1 GCD may cost you a HS or MS however, you gain 5% increased damage to all attacks for the next 15/30 seconds.

If you have a situation where you've got RI you can combine damage like Rend > Pummel > MS > CM > OP (or) Rend > Pummel > MS > CM > MS - Requires a delay in use of your abilities but, it is possible and is more PVP likely.

Executioner is for Raid boss fights. The fights last longer and you may need more rage to increase your DPS. This can be extremely useful when fighting an enrage timer, however; requires the target to be at the required amount of HP. And it can drain a lot of your rage spamming Execution. Essentially, Executioner *can* be counter productive.

Warriors receive rage when their attack is dodged or not?


No, Warriors do not.

They do gain an ability to counter a Dodge - Overpower (Only usage after the target dodges)

#37 Deus_Phasmatis

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 12:29 AM

Warriors receive full rage from auto-attacks that are dodged or parried. I've tested it.

#38 Booi

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 06:48 AM

Has anyone come up with an elegant solution for managing Inner Rage? Macroing it into revenge and cancelling the aura on everything else works as a baseline, but obviously you'd prefer to have it up for free shield slams/all shield slams (or more in high rage situations).

The big culprit is heroic strike, but because it is essentially on it's own gcd - it's hard to ensure that Inner Rage will be off when HS is getting qued. I'm not necessarily looking for an ideal solution, that is accomplished by manually hitting all the time. But as tanks we have a lot to focus on in terms of positioning/leading/cd management. Just looking to find a way for this ball to juggle itself.

#39 Namuron

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 12:28 PM

I am currently wondering how good the 3rd talent point in Incite really is. In my understanding, from a high-level perspective the talent modifies the attack table so that have an additional 33%/66%/100% chance to crit. These crits then have the penalty assigned that they cannot proc Incite again.

So if I have a HS crit chance of e.g. 20% with Incite 2/3, my next HS after a crit HS would have a crit chance ca. 86%. 20% of this 86% would still be able to proc Incite.

If I have Incite 3/3, my crit chance would increase to 25% and after a crit, my next HS that lands would be a guaranteed crit, but it could never proc Incite.

So my conclusion is that the worth of putting a 3rd talent point into incite is at least much lower than the first two points in this talent. Does this make any sense or am I completely on the wrong track?

#40 Guest_adzen_*

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:04 PM

Sorry if this is too obvious, but I couldn't really find an answer. Is Arms just as viable as Fury now (for raids/heroics)? Things keep changing, just want to know which is better currently, heh.

Sorry if we aren't allowed to ask these kinds of questions in this post, but I didn't see anything saying we couldn't. I don't mind someone deleting/moving this post.




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