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Rogue Simple Questions Thread: Cataclysm Edition


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#1 Aldriana

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:42 PM

This is the thread for simple questions that don't fit anywhere else. If your question applies to one of the existing thread topics, please post it there instead; if you expect to generate significant additional discussion, create a new thread. If, however, you have a simple question that only requires a simple answer and don't see a better place to post it, this is your thread.

Note, however, that you should still verify that the answer isn't already easily available before posting. Asking people to make specific gear or spec decisions for you is still against the rules. In fact, all forum rules still apply, so please post accordingly.

#2 Nankio

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 09:33 PM

It is possible to have an EP value or easy liste of all ''late'' WOTLK combat trinket for leveling purpose?

#3 Luckyspoon

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 09:39 PM

It is possible to have an EP value or easy liste of all ''late'' WOTLK combat trinket for leveling purpose?


I believe the most relevant information you are requesting is currently located in a locked thread... HERE

#4 Feist-Mok

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 01:32 AM

I believe the most relevant information you are requesting is currently located in a locked thread... HERE


The one notable addendum to that list specific to levelling: Tiny Abom is exceptionally strong because the proc is never wasted. DBW is exceptionally weak because the proc is often wasted, and because the proc prevents you from mounting unless you write a cancelaura line into your mount button.

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#5 Demedici

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 06:06 PM

I know the current wisdom on Combat rotations is to only use RvS at exactly 4 combo points. I was curious about the effect of using RvS at exactly 3 combo points instead. Since the RvS debuff is 15 seconds, there should be plenty of time to SS again to 5 combo points and Eviscerate or Rupture (especially if you pool some energy at 3cp). Obviously, you'd lose out on the benefits of going straight from 3cp to 5cp and Eviscerating/Rupturing (and thus eroding the value of the SS glyph). My conjecture was that the guaranteed RvS debuff on finishers would compensate. I lack the math chops to work this out, and was curious if this had been considered and rejected.

#6 Gange

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 06:54 PM

It's been asked before. The gist of the answer is: the only way to get the buff without potentially wasting a combo point is by RSing at 4 CP. And a wasted combo point reduces the value of RS. Since it's only about 100 DPS when done optimally, any loss makes the DPS gain/loss pretty insignificant compared to not using it at all. And that's before you figure any deaths caused by the extra complication in your cycle distracting you from the fire you're standing in.

Edited for more accuracy.

#7 Raninia

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 06:55 PM

As far as I understood it, RvS at 4cp was never about the 15 second buff. It had to do with the fact that if your Glyph of Sinister Strike procced, you would lose a combo point, and wasting combo points is always a dps loss.

#8 Nethertwist

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 07:10 PM

What poison is best on throwing weapon? (For an AoE situation) I understand it provides a large boost to FoK, and I can't seem to find a definitive answer.

Bear in mind I have Vile Poisons so I get Instant and Deadly proccing anyway, from my weapons.

I don't know whether Instant is best for the flat damage or Deadly so that one's Deadly stacks build fast (with the extra deadly from VP) and Instant damage starts proccing.

#9 Sarvius

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 08:30 PM

It just depends how long you're going to be aoeing. If the mobs will be alive for more than 8 seconds (if I recall correctly) then deadly is ideal. Usually mobs will be alive for either much less or much more than 8 seconds, though, so you should be able to judge the situation as it comes. Usually deadly is best.

#10 Zulkeir

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 09:46 PM

If they die under 8 seconds anyways, changing to instant from deadly won't really speed things up that much and I doubt you really need to care about that pack of adds. Deadly covers the more important set, and ensures a poison debuff on the target for your specs debuff to apply.

#11 Aldriana

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 10:44 PM

The 8 second number was based on a) assassination and B) number of poison procs only; it didn't account for deadly poison, which is looking increasingly significant. The numbers will need to be run for all specs and level 86.

#12 fourdots

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 12:40 AM

Now that Envenom scales with Mastery, I'm wondering if envenom clipping is really such an issue anymore. I've noticed that ever since I reforged all my crit into mastery, I'm getting 25k envenom crits in 5 man heroics, and 40k envenom crits in 25 man ICC, which is far more than I ever got before Mastery was available. Furthermore, with energy regen being what it is now, keeping the Envenom buff up constantly is really not a problem.

Therefore, if I'm getting those kind of crits from Envenom, would I perhaps want to consider Envenoming as soon as possible to get as many crits as possible, and not worry so much about clipping. It seems to me (and obviously I could be wrong about this which is why I'm asking) that maximizing the number of crits I have in any given fight while simultaneously maintaining 100% Envenom buff uptime is no bad thing.

#13 Aldriana

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 02:55 AM

Except that not clipping Envenoms has absolutely nothing to do with how many of them you get off. That's sort of the point: you can delay them without changing the number you get (provided you don't cap on energy). So you should. Because its free damage to not overlap your Envenoms.

#14 Baerbel

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 02:56 AM

Did anyone find a good way to use redirect in a macro?
I was thinking of a redirect, startattack, sinister strike kind of macro, but as redirect invokes the global cooldown it seems like this is not possible.

Redirect + cheapshot: Redirect creates some aggro and makes a mob attack you, but as it does not take you out of stealth, so you can get a cheapshot of before the mobs attack breaks your stealth.

#15 StoicRoivaS

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 10:34 AM

Were the engineering tinkers removed? I'm maxed (wrath) eng and looking through the stuff the trainer can teach, and I don't see a single tinker of any type. Any idea on this? Other profs seem to get their selfish raid perks already, or so I'm led to believe.

#16 Ryazan

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 10:43 AM

Were the engineering tinkers removed? I'm maxed (wrath) eng and looking through the stuff the trainer can teach, and I don't see a single tinker of any type. Any idea on this? Other profs seem to get their selfish raid perks already, or so I'm led to believe.


It would seem so, at least according to Wowhead. I was browsing engineering schematics and I couldn't find anything really. The only item which came even mildly close was .
- Taking your candles since 2005

#17 korner

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:54 AM

Were the engineering tinkers removed? I'm maxed (wrath) eng and looking through the stuff the trainer can teach, and I don't see a single tinker of any type. Any idea on this? Other profs seem to get their selfish raid perks already, or so I'm led to believe.


They are discovered much like alchemy flasks, while crafting other items.
For example, I have discovered Tazik Shocker - Spell - World of Warcraft while leveling Engineering with trainer recipes.

#18 Sulphuric

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:00 AM

I'm currently running LW & Engineering on my rogue, and if I got the EP values right, it was LW > JC > rest

And atm, Engineering seems very weak, considering the fact that you can't really use nitro boots in a raid environment anymore with the new failure rate, as you risk wiping your raid. So I'm very tempted to drop Engineering for JC as it grants me 3 new good binds (we got 3 new abilites eh). But before I start leveling it, is there anything that actually makes up for it beyond the EP value? I know you got jeeves and portable mailbox, but that alone doesn't seem to weight up for it, especially not when pushing for max potential dps

Also, have anyone figured a good way to track Bandit's Guile? I'm using class timers for the important things to track (snd, rupture, etc) - probably possibly to manually insert the spell names and track it there, but I'm looking for a good option that doesnt take as much space. Kinda hoping there would be someone that had made a mod that's something like just a small circle in green/yellow/red displaying your state so you can keep track and use Killingspree the second it turns red, as I don't see much reason to have a timer/bar for it (Killing Spree just lasts for 2-3 seconds anyway).

And last, I've been trying to make better use of my Blade Flurry lately. As it's often you run into times where you have to cancel it to not hit CC during heroics, and times where it's just 1 target left and you want to cancel it to not lose energy. Manually clicking it off is a pain, and I tried to use a /cancel aura + /cast macro, but when you're close to capping the energy, you cant do much more than to press it 2-3 times you make sure you actually pull the spell off, which means it's easy to cancel it out. Is there any way to set some sort of 'hinder' to stop the macro from canceling out if you press 2-3 times quickly, or set some sort of delay?

#19 taleden

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:49 PM

Also, have anyone figured a good way to track Bandit's Guile? I'm using class timers for the important things to track (snd, rupture, etc) - probably possibly to manually insert the spell names and track it there, but I'm looking for a good option that doesnt take as much space. Kinda hoping there would be someone that had made a mod that's something like just a small circle in green/yellow/red displaying your state so you can keep track and use Killingspree the second it turns red, as I don't see much reason to have a timer/bar for it (Killing Spree just lasts for 2-3 seconds anyway).


You could try Auracle. The three levels each have a different buff name and different icons, right? So you could put those three names into one Auracle tracker, and then whichever one is present will show up with its proper icon, but there would only be one icon on the screen in a consistent spot. Or you could set it up to only register the highest level and ignore the others. Then just turn off the duration text and spiral if you don't need them, for less clutter.

#20 Sulphuric

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:53 PM

You could try Auracle. The three levels each have a different buff name and different icons, right? So you could put those three names into one Auracle tracker, and then whichever one is present will show up with its proper icon, but there would only be one icon on the screen in a consistent spot. Or you could set it up to only register the highest level and ignore the others. Then just turn off the duration text and spiral if you don't need them, for less clutter.


Tried it playing around with it for a bit now, but there's 2 flaws. I can't seem to remove the red border (pretty much want it to display nothing while neither is active), and I can't seem to be able to add 3 spell ID's in one tracker, will only let me accept upon adding 1, 2, but not 3.

I don't mind the timer, it didn't clutter much and seemed handy. But this kinda showed me I might have missunderstood the mechanics a bit, as it saw it kept refreshing from 13s-ish back to 15s, then randomly changing to the second phase. I assumed it was chance on your SS/RvS to start the cycle, whereas green would last 15s, yellow 15s, red 15s, then cycle starts over again. But if I understood it correctly now by the wowhead comments, you have X% chance to start the cycle, then every SS/RvS has a 100% chance to refresh that timer for the same phase, while you still have the X% chance to jump to the next phase on every SS/RvS. But when you reach the third (red, deep), will that only last 15seconds, so you're secured it wont jump out of the cycle or refresh it afterwards? So phase 1 & 2 duration can vary a lot, while the last is always 15 seconds?




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