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Rogue Simple Questions Thread: Cataclysm Edition


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#21 taleden

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 06:02 PM

Tried it playing around with it for a bit now, but there's 2 flaws. I can't seem to remove the red border (pretty much want it to display nothing while neither is active), and I can't seem to be able to add 3 spell ID's in one tracker, will only let me accept upon addon 1, 2, but not 3.


The configuration is somewhat roundabout; you have to go into Tracker Styles and define how things look in various cases, which will then apply to each tracker which uses that style. In this case if you don't use Auracle for anything else you can just change the Default tracker style's border/icon/text settings and uncheck "show when missing", and then it should become invisible when no matching buff is present. It should also let you add as many auras as you want to one tracker; I have some with dozens (i.e. all short-term CC effects - tons of them). Just type in each SpellID, hit enter for a new line, repeat, and click "Okay" at the end so it saves your changes. It should convert the SpellIDs into buff names -- if that doesn't work you can also just type in each buff's name ("Shallow Insight", "Moderate Insight", "Deep Insight" iirc).

As for the cycle, yeah my understanding is there's a % chance to start and then progress to the final state, but then the final state only lasts awhile until falling off, and then you start the cycle over. Otherwise you'd get to Deep Insight pretty early and then stay there the whole fight if it kept refreshing, that wouldn't seem right. So in that case, if you only care about being in the final state, you might just want to put Deep Insight in the tracker and nothing else; if you're worried about making sure you use the right abilities to refresh/advance from earlier states, then you'd keep all three and maybe even keep the timer enabled so you know when it'll fall off if you don't refresh/advance in time.

#22 Fogkin

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:05 PM

This might be a stupid question, but I cannot seem to find where the skill level for lockpicking is now. Or do we not level up from picking locks anymore? I'm at 82 right now and have opened at least 2 dozen boxes and have yet to get a skill up in it. Did Blizz make it so your lockpicking skill is associated with your level and so you don't have to level it anymore?

#23 Killme888

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:11 PM

This might be a stupid question, but I cannot seem to find where the skill level for lockpicking is now. Or do we not level up from picking locks anymore? I'm at 82 right now and have opened at least 2 dozen boxes and have yet to get a skill up in it. Did Blizz make it so your lockpicking skill is associated with your level and so you don't have to level it anymore?


It goes up with your level just like all weapon skills now.

On a side note, the pick pocket/lock picking glyphs are amazing, I've been picking pockets in all the heroics hoping to get the epic throwing.

#24 Fogkin

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:38 PM

It goes up with your level just like all weapon skills now.

On a side note, the pick pocket/lock picking glyphs are amazing, I've been picking pockets in all the heroics hoping to get the epic throwing.


Thanks, I must have missed that part of the patch notes.

#25 Cissalie

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:53 PM

Also, have anyone figured a good way to track Bandit's Guile? I'm using class timers for the important things to track (snd, rupture, etc) - probably possibly to manually insert the spell names and track it there, but I'm looking for a good option that doesnt take as much space. Kinda hoping there would be someone that had made a mod that's something like just a small circle in green/yellow/red displaying your state so you can keep track and use Killingspree the second it turns red, as I don't see much reason to have a timer/bar for it (Killing Spree just lasts for 2-3 seconds anyway).


The Combo Points Redux addon tracks it, 3 little dots that change color green-yellow-red as it goes up.

#26 Pest

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:19 PM

I'm currently running LW & Engineering on my rogue, and if I got the EP values right, it was LW > JC > rest


According to the Assassination Guide for Cata Tailoring is weighted around 92 Agility, while Jewelcrafting is only 81 Agility. But there seems to be an uncertainty of the ICD of the Tailoring Cloak Enchantment.

Is there any new state of the art concerning this issue?

#27 Cissalie

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 05:11 PM

What meta gem is combat using? Chaotic Shadowspirit still has the blue>red requirement and I can't see anything great at the recipe vendor.

#28 Killme888

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 05:21 PM

What meta gem is combat using? Chaotic Shadowspirit still has the blue>red requirement and I can't see anything great at the recipe vendor.


I'd assume until they patch requirement back to the way it was, it's what I'm using anyways. As for mutilate it's probably better to use provided that someone actually got that pattern which is probably unlikely at least for a few more days when more people can do the JC daily and get the less important cuts.

#29 Zaniel

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 07:00 PM

Mutilate has runspeed built in, thanks to talents. So is 54 Mastery from the Fleet really better than all the other meta gems out there? I'm honestly asking, since it seems rather dubious.

#30 Sabrelime

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 07:52 PM

Mutilate has runspeed built in, thanks to talents. So is 54 Mastery from the Fleet really better than all the other meta gems out there? I'm honestly asking, since it seems rather dubious.


Your other options are 54crit+random useless effect. You cannot activate the old meta or the new crit+critdamage meta easily anymore so the mastery meta easily wins as the best.

#31 trrdr

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 10:46 PM

So, I just had the absurd luck of getting the Krol Decapitator and Landslide is still quite some time away for me, would I use Avalanche or Hurricane in the meantime? The only thing I could find is this post from Aldriana, which doesn't really answer my question. Have there been any new insights since then?

#32 NAgousta

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 05:54 PM

For assassination, how does weapon speed affect DPS? I have a 1.8 MH, but switching to a newly acquired 1.4 would net me:

47.6 DPS
15 Agi
~1 Hit
-55 Haste
76 Mastery

That's ~73 EP plus the added DPS.

So, how important is a slow weapon for assassination, currently?

#33 Aldriana

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 06:14 PM

The short answer is "very". As a rule of thumb, its probably better to stick with the 1.8 dagger unless the 1.4 dagger is two full tiers higher, which, coupled with the trivial availability of Lacquered Lung-Leak Longknife, means you'd need an epic 1.4 dagger to displace it.

#34 WickedWhizz

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:28 AM

I was curious if there is a Pocket Guide available for reforging by tree. Such as, What to take off and reforge into.

Possibly in an order of preference for each?

#35 Sarvius

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:45 AM

The pocket guide is simple. Take the least valuable stat on an item and turn it into the most valuable stat you can. If the stats are equally bad, reforge whichever is numerically higher. When you approach them, figure out how to get expertise and hit capped with as little waste as possible. It's the exact same process as how you select what gear to use.

Quest wherever gets you 85 fastest. Or wherever you want. Blues are significantly better than greens, and epics are significantly better still. You'll get plenty of functional items for every slot, and higher level zones will give you better rewards. Pretty simple. The leveling path is fairly linear anyways, so I'm not really sure what your question was meant to get at. Prioritize uldum (ramkahen - helm enchant) and deepholm (therazane - shoulder enchant) because neither of those is going to be replaced by a dungeon drop.

#36 E For Effort

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 06:31 PM

Aldriana,

Just to be clear, that rule of thumb regarding a 2 tier improvement wouldn't apply to a fast weapon in off hand as well in that spec, or would it?

#37 Aldriana

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 06:48 PM

For Mutilate, your OH needs to be fast, and your MH needs to be slow. There's not a lot of room for negotiation on either of those points. As noted, a fast dagger needs to be two tiers (26 ilvls) better than your best slow option to be worth using MH, and the badge OH is better than any available 1.8 dagger for the OH.

#38 phantomhitman

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 06:49 PM

The short answer is "very". As a rule of thumb, its probably better to stick with the 1.8 dagger unless the 1.4 dagger is two full tiers higher, which, coupled with the trivial availability of Lacquered Lung-Leak Longknife, means you'd need an epic 1.4 dagger to displace it.

Aldriana, if you dont mind can you explain how you go about finding out this information? I remember you posting this same info months ago and have just lived by it at face value without understanding what formula I could use to determine when a fast dagger is good for a mainhand when you just have bad lucks for drops. I have 4 heroic fast offhands and only the new ring of blood mainhand. From what I understand the top end damage from mutilate for the mainhand is hard for a fast dagger to keep up with unless its ilevel is so high that the stats simply outweigh the slow dagger. Is there any math I can do so I always understand the reasoning behind it?

#39 Aldriana

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 07:27 PM

The short answer is that I wrote a spreadsheet to figure it out. Or, at current, a python library. However, to motivate the answer a little bit: LLLL is a 362.8 DPS 1.8 speed dagger; this means the average base weapon damage is 653.5, while an ilvl 346 1.4 speed dagger only does 573.5; hence your instant attacks are significantly smaller as a result. More generally, swapping a 333 1.8 dagger out for a 346 1.4 dagger gives:
  • Smaller Backstabs
  • Smaller Mutilates
  • Fewer poison procs
  • Lower proc uptime

In exchange for
  • More base stats
  • Higher autoattack damage

And when you work out the influence of all those factors, it works out that the 1.8 speed dagger does more total damage.

To be a little more numerical about the comparison: for a particular gear set I've been assessing, MH weapon DPS has an EP value of about 3.3, and using a 1.8 MH instead of a 1.4 gives roughly a 410 EP benefit. Those precise values will fluxuate somewhat based on variations in gear, but its sufficient to give us a ballpark figure. So comparing LLLL to Throat Slasher, we gain 15 agi and 29 rating stats for a total benefit of ~70 EP from stats, as well as 47 DPS for another 155 EP, for a total benefit of 225 EP... which is barely over half the 410 we lose from the speed difference. So a 1.4 weapon that's *one* tier better isn't anywhere close to as good, but a weapon two tiers higher would plausibly work out to be slightly better.

#40 phantomhitman

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 07:48 PM

I really appreciate that info and will be saving this post for future comparisons. Thanks for taking the time to explain all of the factors that go into judging how to compare weapons.




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