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Mage Simple Questions/Simple Answers [Cataclysm]


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#21 triumphet

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 01:58 PM

In Grim Batol on first boss, my MI aggroed the mobs on the other side of that rift (next to the bridge, the pack you normally skip). We had aggroed them before once during trash pulls, though.
One thing I have noticed: Odd things only happen when you pop MI before doing any damage on the boss. If you launch a quick IL or FrB and pop MI afterwards, everything is perfectly fine.


I tried four times on Heroic stonecore, each time a different time casting MI and watching what happens, note, this only happens sparadically and once it does I cant get it to stop until we move to next boss so i just bypass my MI for this fight. I tried casting MI right away, after aggro, probabaly before attacking, I tried casting one dps spell and then MI, i tried dpsing 15 seconds before MI, and i tried popping all CD and mages "lust", each and everytime the same mobs pulled.
It sucks wondering before you pop MI if this is going to be the time I cause a wipe, any ideas what is causing this to happen?

#22 Schwierig

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 01:30 PM

If I get a HS proc as Fire right before LB is running out.

Should I:
  • Cast the HS before the LB and loose considerable amount of LB dps
  • or cast LB before the HS and risking not getting a HS ignite


#23 titosantana

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 08:18 PM

Hi!

Fire mage here: Now I know that hit is the most important stat.. can't do damage if you don't hit the boss. And I know that the general order is

INT
HIT
SP
CRIT

but my question is this: Would it make any sense to build up crit over hit a little when you aren't already hit capped? Since fire is crit based, and you are going to proc a lot less the lower your crit is, would there be a good place to stop putting stats into HIT and more into CRIT if you already are below the HIT cap.

So far, I'm about 14% hit right now, and that's with some serious reforging. I am not going to hit the 17% anytime in the next couple weeks. My crit is around 21%, but I'm not getting very many procs at all. Would it make sense to sacrifice a little hit for crit early on if you can't reach the cap?

#24 Nine

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 08:34 PM

I'm seeing a lot of posts in various forums about fire mages needing to get haste to points around 12.5%, 37.5%, 62.5%, etc for the extra ticks that the dots from Living Bomb, Pyroblast and Frostfire bolts do.

I've seen reference to those values here too, but nothing stated in black and white or numbers on whether it is a good thing to do so.

Since haste reduces the duration or DoTs until it hits one of those points and adds another tick, it is effectively nearly the same DPS whether haste is at 12.45% or 12.5%

Is the point of those caps to minimise the amount of GCD's spent refreshing Living Bomb? And even so, isn't crit more worthwhile anyway for the extra damage, hotstreaks, mana regen and so on?

#25 dascott

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:11 PM

Since I don't quite feel like spending 18,000 gold on a weapon enchant, what would the second best enchant be? Hurricane seems pretty poor, at least in Rawr. Thanks.

#26 Wizeowel

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 04:59 PM

So far, I'm about 14% hit right now, and that's with some serious reforging. I am not going to hit the 17% anytime in the next couple weeks. My crit is around 21%, but I'm not getting very many procs at all. Would it make sense to sacrifice a little hit for crit early on if you can't reach the cap?


You have to hit to crit, so this idea lowers your dps. Moreover the standard 'hot streak' talent already increases your chance for a proc at low values of crit, so going from 21% to say 24% crit by reforging is not going to give a commensurate increase in the number of pyroblast procs. See the OP of the fire thread for an explanation of hot streak crit.

I've seen reference to those values here too, but nothing stated in black and white or numbers on whether it is a good thing to do so.


Lhivera had some numbers from Simulationcraft in pre-raid gear which showed high value for haste when under the 12.5% soft cap for extra living bomb ticks. You can see the numbers here: Simulationcraft Results Click open "DPS Scale values" and note the high value for haste for fire and frostfire specs.

#27 Tyrian

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 08:30 PM

I'm seeing a lot of posts in various forums about fire mages needing to get haste to points around 12.5%, 37.5%, 62.5%, etc for the extra ticks that the dots from Living Bomb, Pyroblast and Frostfire bolts do.

I've seen reference to those values here too, but nothing stated in black and white or numbers on whether it is a good thing to do so.


I'll be updating the Fire Post soon (after getting someone to proofread the intended advice) to address this. As Wizeowel mentioned, getting that first additional tick is important. Haste should really be split into two categories: "Haste before 12.5% raid buffed" and "Haste after 12.5% raid buffed". The current Fire post assumes you have decent gear and already have the haste required without even consciously trying (Which isn't too hard to do). While this is true for many, we'll explain it more clearly so people realise that the first tick is important - if they don't actually have said gear.

#28 Xylla

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 11:59 AM

I just tried out Rawr 4.0.12beta for the first time and was wondering if the theorycraft has finished on the Volcano deck? It just seems weird to be it's below Stump even when I'm maxed hit without Stump equipped.

#29 Maje

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 09:07 PM

The Darkmoon trinket is extremely strong, it is better than any other pre-raid trinket with the possible exception of the Tol Barad reputation one.

It is 12s duration with 45s internal cooldown with what looks like a 30% proc chance, the average duration in fights is around 26% making it worth about 416 intellect; the fire proc is affected by CoE and in a raid hits for about 2.2k or about 44 dps.

#30 Tjaeden

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 05:52 PM

Question: Should Fireblast be part of the rotation (consindering talented for +8% crit) to boost ignite damage before popping Combustion? Or should we *just* use it to spread DoT's? I'm just wondering about the mana and if its just better to spam Scroch, or hope to get lucky w/Fireballs.

Thanks!

#31 Caerdor

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 08:56 PM

A couple of questions:

A) After the mana gem charges have been used is conjuring a new one a dps increase for a fire mage?

B) When mana is not an issue is blinking more dps than scorch running?

Thanks!

#32 Tigraine

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 12:28 AM

From the ratings and everything I can see that 4% Hit is required against lvl 85 enemies.
I just wonder why we are going for 5% hit in PvP if 4% seems to be sufficient? Am I missing some hidden 1% miss chance against players?

#33 BeeLz

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 01:37 AM

A couple of questions:

A) After the mana gem charges have been used is conjuring a new one a dps increase for a fire mage?

B) When mana is not an issue is blinking more dps than scorch running?

Thanks!



A) It's probably worth it if you can use all 3 gems in the fight, I don't think there's any fight that last long enough for 2 evocations and 6 mana gems though.

B) Mana is always an issue to some extent. But no, scorch barely drops your dps and when you get the flow of the fight right you'll want to manage your mana around scorching on movement and using fireball on moments where you don't have to move.


On another note,

Is it safe to assume that the 2 setbonus on the Firelord set works both for pyroblast and pyroblast! ?

#34 Caerdor

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 09:14 AM

B) Mana is always an issue to some extent. But no, scorch barely drops your dps and when you get the flow of the fight right you'll want to manage your mana around scorching on movement and using fireball on moments where you don't have to move.


I am referring to some specific scenarios where mana management is not an issue. For example you may have saved enough mana to spam FB for the last 35% of the fight but you get a debuff and have to move away from the group. Or just any fight where you want to maximize your dps in a specific phase that also involves some movement. In these scenarios your only criteria is the dps output.

#35 Roywyn

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:43 AM

A) After the mana gem charges have been used is conjuring a new one a dps increase for a fire mage?
B) When mana is not an issue is blinking more dps than scorch running?

A) Assume you can use all charges. You lose 3s of DPS time and gain about 25k mana. With some haste, that's about -100% DPS, +50%MP5 which is comparable to the last 2 ticks of Evocation. So, if using all 4 ticks of Evocation is worth it, then using the Mana Gem for 3 charges is worth it as well. Using 2 charges cuts the benefit in half (conjuring the gem takes as much mana as one charge), making it most likely not worth it (from previous calculations with Evocation).
A possible advantage is casting the mana gem during a lull and using it to cast more Fireballs during a burn phase.

B) Blink saves you at most 4s of run time when glyphed. In reality, you likely don't need the full blinking distance but just 1-2 seconds of running out of something. But let's try to skew the scenario as much as possible towards Blink, so we assume 50% haste as well. Then we have to compare "1s Blink, 2s Fireball cycles" to "4s Scorch cycles" which still favours the Scorch cycles.
An advantage for Blink is a situation where you're casting a Fireball and using Blink allows you to finish the cast and then Blink while using Scorch would require you to move immediately, because the fire* takes a bit to pass through.

[Edit]: Thanks for the reminder of Glyph of Conjuring. With it, using a 3-charge mana gem is better than Evocation, a 2-charge gem may be worth it if you can combine the longer burn phases with other multipliers. A 1-charge gem is a loss unless you can cast it during breaks/phase shifts.
Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks....p2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.c...ki/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks....0-post3191.html

And doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does since 3.1.

#36 cremor

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 12:35 PM

Anyone else noticed that a broken sheep is reported exactly the same like when it's duration has passed, whereas it should be reported as SPELL_AURA_BROKEN?

Example of a broken Polymorph:
SPELL_CAST_START,0x040000000080D14C,"Mage",0x10548,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,118,"Polymorph",0x40
SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x040000000080D14C,"Mage",0x10548,0x0400000000115C4B,"SheepTarget",0x511,118,"Polymorph",0x40,DEBUFF
SPELL_CAST_START,0x040000000080D14C,"Mage",0x10548,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,44614,"Frostfire Bolt",0x14
SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x040000000080D14C,"Mage",0x10548,0x0400000000115C4B,"SheepTarget",0x511,118,"Polymorph",0x40,DEBUFF
SPELL_DAMAGE,0x040000000080D14C,"Mage",0x10548,0x0400000000115C4B,"SheepTarget",0x511,44614,"Frostfire Bolt",0x14,9428,-1,20,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil

Could someone with an US account please report this issue to Blizzard?

#37 seaferret

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 06:35 PM

Using 2 charges cuts the benefit in half (conjuring the gem takes as much mana as one charge), making it most likely not worth it (from previous calculations with Evocation).


In practice, mages should be using the glyph of conjuring, making that in-battle "conjure new gem + use first charge" net half of a normal charge instead of nothing. I'm not sure if that changes the answer though.

#38 hotshot25120

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:59 PM

Anyone have check the dps increase for the fire mage from the new warlock Spell Dark Intent ? Also with this spell on us the haste require for the aditional tick is around 125 for the first tick.

#39 Sinless

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 04:16 PM

How does impact behave if one is cast right after the other where there are still dots from the old impact on the target?

For example, you cast LB on Mob A, then cast impact-fireblast to spread it to Mob B. If you use another impact 1-2 second after the first one, will Mob B have 2 LB dots on it? Same goes for ignite or Pyro damage, will mob B have 2 x pyro or 2 x ignite dots for impacts that are used back to back?

#40 Tjaeden

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:04 PM

In practice, mages should be using the glyph of conjuring, making that in-battle "conjure new gem + use first charge" net half of a normal charge instead of nothing. I'm not sure if that changes the answer though.


Has anyone noticed that even w/Glyph of Conjuring, the mana cost of a gem displays correctly, but still costs 12k+ ?




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