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[Feral-Cat] Cataclysm Release


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#41 Docrev

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 08:48 AM

If you run the online version, it states at the bottom that Rawr.Cat is maintained by Astrylian.

#42 tangedyn

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 01:27 PM

So you'll probably have to ask Astrylian about how accurate his Rawr.Cat model is.

#43 Sylvaneart

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 03:44 PM

Skull bash is a 2 part spell; the interrupt part does not miss, ever. The debuff part (+10% mana cost) is based on hit, and thus can miss.


This is great news since i have hit capped for this fight as a kitty. But what are you basing that on? A blue post, research? Before I take a chance of screwing over my raid group I'd like to see where this comes from.

#44 Slott

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:17 PM

This is great news since i have hit capped for this fight as a kitty. But what are you basing that on? A blue post, research? Before I take a chance of screwing over my raid group I'd like to see where this comes from.


I tested this out with a friend dueling in PVP yesterday, and can confirm his findings. Skull bash still interrupted on a miss, and did not apply the debuff (10% increase) at all.

#45 baldeagle

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 05:17 AM

I noticed Unheeded Warning - Item - World of Warcraft is conspicuously absent from the list of trinkets suggested by OP. Is there a reason it is not considered? I would think the +321 agility alone makes it worthy. Has anyone done any real world testing yet on this one?

Same question regarding the Darkmoon Card: Hurricane - Item - World of Warcraft. Before spending a lot of gold on the Darkmoon trinket, I would appreciate the input of any that have some testing results on either.

#46 tangedyn

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 05:55 AM

OP hasn't updated for a while, there's actually quite a few inaccuracies that I have spotted.
Mew supports Unheeded Warning, so you can try it out there. The Darkmoon Card is not supported yet because we don't know the proc rate and ICD yet, and probably won't until DMF arrives.

#47 Arkenis

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 03:04 PM

EDIT : Question deleted cause i had a bad premise :<

#48 Melthu

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 04:06 PM

OP hasn't updated for a while, there's actually quite a few inaccuracies that I have spotted.


I've been meaning to update the OP when I get a chance to relax and breathe for a minute. I know there's a lot of alpha/beta information that's completely unnecessary at this point that I'll get around to removing eventually, but if there's factually inaccurate information about feral in its current state feel free to PM me so I can get that fixed immediately.

#49 Arkenis

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 04:35 PM

Does anyone know the ICD of ? It is said 45s on Rawr but it seems a bit overpowered ...

EDIT:
I found this in the source code of the mew, I assume this CD is the right value.

name:"Heart of Rage (359)",
prop:"i59224",
triggers:"WHITE,YELLOW,WHITECRIT,YELLOWCRIT",
rate:0.10,
buffCooldown:75,
buffDuration:15,
buffStrength:1926



#50 Leafkiller

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 05:50 PM

I noticed Unheeded Warning - Item - World of Warcraft is conspicuously absent from the list of trinkets suggested by OP. Is there a reason it is not considered? I would think the +321 agility alone makes it worthy. Has anyone done any real world testing yet on this one?

Same question regarding the Darkmoon Card: Hurricane - Item - World of Warcraft. Before spending a lot of gold on the Darkmoon trinket, I would appreciate the input of any that have some testing results on either.


I compared Unheeded Warning with Tia's Grace and Fluid Death last night because it dropped and was available to me. I used the Formulation model in Mew on a slightly out of date version of my toon. Tia's Grace and Fluid Death came out comfortably ahead. I plan to do a little more structured testing across several trinkets (including taking into account reforging, etc.) but that will not change the relative value of the three trinkets I already looked at.

#51 Yawning

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 08:01 PM

EDIT:
I found this in the source code of the mew, I assume this CD is the right value.


The source file you looked at is a bit out of date. 20 sec duration, 100 sec ICD should be correct, but that's also still a guess. Testing by the Rogues (http://elitistjerks....hanics_testing/) indicate most if not all trinkets have a ICD that is 5x the buff duration.

The lastest build of Mew (20101221) should have most trinkets durations and ICDs updated with this in mind.

#52 eXcel905

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 01:33 AM

What is the best/accepted time without a dps loss to clip rake/rip in cata?

#53 kalbear

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 05:01 PM

What is the best/accepted time without a dps loss to clip rake/rip in cata?

Clipping DoTs in cataclysm results in no innate DPS loss; all DoTs are rolling and continue ticking at the prior time whenever you refresh them. The only DPS loss comes from an efficiency issue - if you can delay refreshing, it gives you more overall energy to spend on other things. That being said, that's not a huge concern, and the loss of DPS from the dots dropping off tends to be significantly higher than doing so early.

#54 Leafkiller

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 09:10 PM

What is the best/accepted time without a dps loss to clip rake/rip in cata?


It is always a dps gain to refresh Rip and Rake prior to the last tick, <3 seconds on Rake and <2 seconds on Rip (Rip cannot always be clipped due to the more powerful spell mechanic). Further, if Rake has less than 9 seconds remaining, and TF is up, you should refresh Rake early.

Edit: I forgot to mention that refreshing just prior to the last tick of Rip/Rake does not clip - the last tick still happens.

#55 Twibs

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 05:06 AM

About reforging and cat stat.

Should I reforge my haste or crit to mastery? I've seen both ways and no definie answer here. So far I'm assuming it's crit to mastery.

#56 weswtp

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 05:48 AM

About reforging and cat stat.

Should I reforge my haste or crit to mastery? I've seen both ways and no definie answer here. So far I'm assuming it's crit to mastery.


Mew has a excellent "Relative Stat Value" tab when you put in all the information with your current paper doll. This should help you find what stats are best for you to reforge. I, myself, am currently reforging mastery>haste>crit.

#57 Beanna

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 05:07 PM

About reforging and cat stat.

Should I reforge my haste or crit to mastery? I've seen both ways and no definie answer here. So far I'm assuming it's crit to mastery.

Acording to Mew, Mastery and Crit are better than Hast, then hit and exp. You should always reforge the "worst" stat into Mastery or Crit and if those two stats are already presents on the gear don't reforge anything.

#58 TheJinchuuriki

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 07:00 PM

I would like to make note that by my relative stat values 4piece 352 pvp for the set bonus (180 agility) is worth more than x4 pieces of 346 gear.

I found that you lose roughly 600 stats(expertise hit etc, non-agility stats) and gain ~20 agi per piece then 180 more for the set bonus. With my agi valuing at 2.6 and my mastery(the highest valued of my stats) valuing at 1.0, the comparison becomes 260agi@2.6= 676 or ~600stats@1.0=600. This comparison assumes that ALL the stat points your losing are valued as high as mastery, the more realistic comparison will have many of the stats lost valued at much lower rates(my hit/expertise are 0.6, haste 0.69 and crit 0.71)

This comparison doesn't count the increased movement speed as an increase for dps, but it is something to also keep in mind.

#59 Robosaurus

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 06:16 AM

According to Mew, Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21agility 3% increased critical damage) is a dps upgrade even with its harsh requirements (requires more blue than red gems). This is likely to depend heavily on your crit% (mine is 42% and I am in almost full 359 gear)

The simple rule is to
1) Create as many Red+Green pairs as possible to obtain red socket bonuses
2) Add another green
3) Fill the rest of the sockets with purple.
You should hit every socket bonus for this tier.


This is because mastery is worth more than hit, so you should NOT gem everything purple except one green/blue gem. [I see a lot of ferals doing this. If you are doing this, it may be the reason that the Relentless Meta seems unviable to you.]

Here are the values of the gems for the meta requirement:
40 Agility => -1
20hit/agi => 0
20mastery/hit => +1

You should NOT use any other type of gem as they are inferior. Play around with your gems.
To solve for THREE sockets, Red+Blue+Blue, the optimal solution would be 40agility+ 2x(20mastery/hit)

From what I have seen, we lack many red sockets, so we have to can use prismatics as red.
Here is a sample from my gear

Sockets:
1 Red
4 Yellow
3 Blue
2 Prismatic

Solution:
3x 40 agility in Red, Prismatic x 2 [-3]
4x 20mastery/hit in Yellow x 4 [+4]
*3 x 20agility/hit in Blue x 3 [+0]
*Read note at bottom
[Total score: +1]


Here is another example from a Blacksmithing guildy:

Sockets:
4 Blue
1 Red
4 Yellow
4 Prismatic

Solution:
5x 40 agility (Red, 4x Prismatic) [-5]
6x 20Mastery/Hit (4 Yellow, 2 Blue) [+6]
*2x 20 agility/hit (2 Blue) [+0]
[Total score: +1]
*Read note at bottom


Additional notes
*If you have two purple gems in 2 Blue sockets, you can convert this pair into 40agility + 20mastery/hit, if the socket bonuses are not worth it. This is NOT advisable however. The worst socket bonus would be +10hit. Remember you are changing 2 sockets so this would be a loss of +20hit. Hence, with this change you would go from +40agi/+60hit to +40agi/+20mastery/+20hit. Stat weights will show you that 40hit > 20 mastery. Therefore it is likely that we will take all socket bonuses whilst using the Relentless Meta.

If you are Blacksmithing then the value of your prismatic sockets is reduced (i.e not worth 80agi).
Each prismatic socket allows you to turn a blue socket which previously had a neutral (agility/hit) gem into a postive gem (mastery/hit).
So 1 prismatic socket is +40agi, -20agi/hit, +20mastery/hit => 20agi, 20mastery, assuming you had an excess of blue sockets. Because of this, you may wish to use a simulator before changing to Relentless Earthsiege.

If you are Jewelcrafting then the value of your prismatic sockets is reduced if you do NOT have a red socket (you have 2 prismatics for the other 2 gems, belt and Relic). All epic chests have a red socket, so you should be fine (Tier is R/B, Sark of Unwatched is R/Y).

If Relentless Earthsiege Diamond is unviable, consider or or , which have much more lax requirements.
Remember this guide is to help you maximize R.E.D. gemming so that you can compare it to other metas.

#60 TheJinchuuriki

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 07:44 PM

Napkin math suggests with current socket colorings and ~10 total gems, the R.E.D. will be the metagem of choice.

In order for the R.E.D. to be a gain in dps, you must be able to activate it without losing more than 300 dps in gem dps. IE you must be able to gem in accordance with the red/green sets without losing a total of ~318 dps or attackpower to all-agility gem selections. An example would be ; if gemmed 20mastery/20hit you lose a potential 67 dps on the split gem for the required 10hit to maintain R.E.D instead of 40 agility([Sensei's Dream Emerald]vs[Delicate Inferno Ruby]). On a prismatic socket gemmed 20mastery/20hit you lose ~74 dps due to losing the potential 40 agility.
If you total losses exceed ~320 total dps, your better off choosing the all-red 54crit or double-yellow 54mastery meta gems.

Here is a sample comparison WITHOUT socket bonuses at my current stat values:
Mastery 1.03
Hit 0.63
Expertise 0.63
Haste 0.7
Agility 2.7
Crit 0.76


Gem Setup A, 3% Crit Meta
x3 Delicate
40 agi 120*2.7= 324
x4 mstr/hit
80 hit 80*.63 50.4
80 mst 80*1.03 82.4
x3 agi/hit
60 agi 60*2.7 162
60 hit 60*.63 37.8
x1 Meta Gem
21 agi 21*2.7 56.7
713.3 TOTAL WEIGHT
Gem Setup B
x10 Delicate
400 agi 400 1080
x1 Meta Gem
54 cri 54 41.04
1121.04 TOTAL WEIGHT

407.74 TOTAL DELTA
***THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE SOCKET BONUSES***
Mew Estimations
With x3% crit 18722.41
With Agi EP 18799.36
With x3% crit+ 50agi Socketbonuses 18860.96


The math I listed assumed there were ZERO red socket bonuses and ZERO blue socket bonuses, how many of which you have could easily tip the scales. Unless your gear has no worthwhile sockets it's quite likely you should use the relentless earthsiege.

Here is a sample run WITH sockets

[ITEM]membrane of C'Thun[/ITEM]20hit/20mastery/30haste           54.2  +1blue  l   40agi              108
[ITEM]Poison Protocol Pauldrons[/ITEM]20agi/20hit/10 mastery     87.2  ------  l   40 agi/10 mastery  118.3
[ITEM]Sark of the Unwatched[/ITEM] 40agi/20hit/40mastery         161.8 ------  l   80agi              216
[ITEM]Stormrider's Grips[/ITEM] 40agi/10haste                    115   +1red   l   40agi/10haste      115
[ITEM]Dispersing Belt[/ITEM] 70agi/20hit                         201.6 +1red   l   80agi              216
[ITEM]Stormrider's Legguards[/ITEM] 20mastery/40hit/40agi        153.8 +1blue  l   80agi              216
[ITEM]Storm Rider's Boots[/ITEM] 30mastery/20hit                 43.5  +1blue  l   40agi              108
[I]RELIC[/I]  20agi/20hit                                    66.6  ------  l   40agi              108
[ITEM]Relentless Earthsiege Diamond[/ITEM]   21agi               56.7  ------  l   54crit             41.04

                                             [B]TOTAL [/B] = 940.4                       [B]TOTAL [/B] = 1246.34
                                                                       [B]TOTAL DIFFERENCE [/B] = 305.94
All in all the differences between them are very minor, it seems that your available socket bonuses nudge you in the right direction.
Once again, the difference needed to make an agi setup surpass the R.E.D. is ~318, so at 306 were not quite there, however note that for each gem in your gear you lose a little more potential agility by using R.E.D.; if you had more gem slots (neck rings etc) the would slowly catch up.




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