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[Balance] Cataclysm 4.3 (Dragon Soul)


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#21 Thorsis

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 02:09 AM

From all I have read, Haste is still the stat to push on gear and reforging yes?

#22 Thelothian

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:17 AM

A question about the addons.
If a player had difficulties seeing all proc / debuffs active (cause by vision problems, lack of concentration, etc ...) what addons you might recommend? Theoretically, the ideal add-on would be a tool that shows clear and visible signs near the character. This might help finish the rotation and refresh DOTs just before expiring. Maybe something less generic than Power Auras or Forte would be better... Any suggestions?

#23 Thorsis

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:38 PM

A question about the addons.
If a player had difficulties seeing all proc / debuffs active (cause by vision problems, lack of concentration, etc ...) what addons you might recommend? Theoretically, the ideal add-on would be a tool that shows clear and visible signs near the character. This might help finish the rotation and refresh DOTs just before expiring. Maybe something less generic than Power Auras or Forte would be better... Any suggestions?


I know I am in the minority here but I use mage nuggets. it has a specific boomchicken setup. It has the popup boxes for our 3 mains including our two dots with timers. I separate those 3 down just above my bar so its out of the fight way. It has worked pretty well for me.

#24 Garithras

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:21 PM

Instead of making yet another spot on the screen to look at, Inline Aura & OmniCC combine to put all of the pertinent information directly onto the action bar (they work fine with most bar mods). Button borders turn green or red depending on if the buff or debuff is active, and include numerical timers. There is also a glow effect that lights up for procs (starsurge, wrath during solar, etc). Both are customizable as well, but work fine just out of the box.

#25 Zenigen

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 08:02 PM

I apologize if this question has been answered somewhere back in the T12/T11 posts, I didn't manage to see an answer through simple browsing. (I don't pay as much attention to this forum as I should, as I'm mainspec Resto, and only occasionally offspec Balance.)

In the original post/guide by Hamlet, he mentions that only the 2nd DoT will benefit from Nature's Grace, but what is there keeping us from casting the DoT used to proc NG with an additional time (I.E MF -> IS -> MF, or IS -> MF -> IS) to benefit from the haste bonus of NG? Is it due to Lunar Shower making subsequent moofires cost eclipse energy, and if so, why not just spec out of Lunar Shower for fights without as much movement?

Also, when casting Wild Mushrooms, do they snapshot stats at the time of creating them, or upon explosion? (Elcipse, mastery procs, etc)

#26 Hamlet

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:13 PM

Above questions:
1) You can get double NG DoT's that way, but it tends not to be worth the extra GCD.
2) on explosion.

Also, there's another way you can get double NG DoT's--just mentioning it since I've heard some people wondering about Glyph of Starfire lately. If you MF, IS, SF at the beginning of an Eclipse, the SF will extend the MF and also apply NG to it. But ~11s later when NG ends, you'll still be in pre-Solar, and the next SF will cause the MF to lose NG for the remainder of its 27s duration. Still, something good to know. Also, might be worth rechecking all this on live since it's been a while.

-----

To fix in OP:
--FoN affected by spell hit.
--4T11 advanced notes are out of dates since it's been nerfed.

#27 nse360

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:23 AM

Also @Zenigen - you should RARELY be speccing Lunar Shower - it's generally considered a DPS loss for any fights with multi-dotting.

#28 nephyron

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:54 AM

Someone pointed out that he could achieve higher dps with heroic boots rather than the VP ones with some strange reforge. I can confirm it, the strange reforge is spirit -> haste on boots instead of reforging away the crit rating.

Without DI you can go for the 3101 Haste breakpoint
If you manage to get another Girdle of the Grotesque, since we sit at 3026 haste we can swap 3 red gems in the belt for 3 orange to reach the 3101 haste breakpoint without DI

Wrathcalc gives me 50090.98 DPS (Night Elf) with DI in full Heroic BiS, Epic Gems and Dragonwrath
Using boots from VP and crafted bracers (I've manually added the +20int bonus to the bracers since it's clearly a bug and is gonna be fixed)

If you always have DI you can choose the Treads of Sordid Screams(heroic) and with some reforging achieve 37693,92 DPS (Night Elf) with DI in full Heroic BiS, Epic Gems and Dragonwrath
Using the crafted bracers (I've manually added the +20int bonus to the bracers since it's clearly a bug and is gonna be fixed)

Edit:
Maybe something is wrong in WC: in full BiS I always get a dps loss for using Glyph of Starsurge over any other glyph with any combination of Starfall...

Edit2:
I need to know for sure if the VP boots are BiS or not, because I don't want to waste an orange and a red epic gems :S

#29 Devourer

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:21 AM

Based on just raw number conversion, offset Resto chest is a small DPS increase from having offset Resto shoulders. Can anyone double check this for me? It was basically a ~9 DPS increase to have the chest instead of shoulders.

#30 Tecton

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:29 AM

Wrathcalc gives me 50090.98 DPS (Night Elf) with DI in full Heroic BiS, Epic Gems and Dragonwrath


Can you clarify the setup you are using to achieve this figure?

[edit] Actually, I think this might be with Glyph of Insect Swarm and using Starfall every Lunar, which obviously doesn't work since it won't be off cooldown without 4t13 and GoSS. Even with those options, it's possible/probable we won't be able to actually pull off getting a Starfall in every cycle. [/edit]

Based on just raw number conversion, offset Resto chest is a small DPS increase from having offset Resto shoulders. Can anyone double check this for me? It was basically a ~9 DPS increase to have the chest instead of shoulders.


It's certainly showing as more DPS in any gear setups I've found, but I don't think there is a concensus on what is 100% BiS yet.

#31 Melador

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 05:56 PM

A question about the addons.
If a player had difficulties seeing all proc / debuffs active (cause by vision problems, lack of concentration, etc ...) what addons you might recommend? Theoretically, the ideal add-on would be a tool that shows clear and visible signs near the character. This might help finish the rotation and refresh DOTs just before expiring. Maybe something less generic than Power Auras or Forte would be better... Any suggestions?

I use TellMeWhen to build a couple bars that contain all my most pertinent cooldowns/buffs and put it right next to my eclipse bar. One has (target)IS, (target)MF, (target)SF, Shooting Stars proc, Starsuge cooldown, FoN cooldown, Starfall cooldown. The other has all the temporary buffs so I can at-a-glance see how powerful my dot refreshes will be -- Nature's Grace, Bloodlust, and all my gear procs.

#32 Hidden

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:40 PM

Based on just raw number conversion, offset Resto chest is a small DPS increase from having offset Resto shoulders. Can anyone double check this for me? It was basically a ~9 DPS increase to have the chest instead of shoulders.


That's for single target only. Basically you choose between Haste/Crit and Mastery/Mastery. For single target you get slightly more DPS by going Haste/Crit but you lose lots of AoE damage compared to Mastery/Mastery. So you'll want to go for the restoration shoulders for any encounter you can make use of wild mushrooms in.

#33 nephyron

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 04:54 PM

Can you clarify the setup you are using to achieve this figure?


The profile I'm actually using as BiS is:
Deep Earth Cover (Heroic) 126 spirit -> mastery
Petrified Fungal Heart (Heroic) 81 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Mantle (Heroic) 99 spirit -> haste
Woundlicker Cover 73 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Vestment (Heroic) 143 mastery -> haste
Mycosynth Wristguards (Heroic) 81 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Gloves (Heroic) -> enchanted with 50 haste, no reforge
Girdle of the Grotesque (Heroic) 96 spirit -> haste
Deep Earth Leggings (Heroic)
Treads of Sordid Screams (Heroic) 102 spirit -> haste, enchanted with 50 haste
Ring of the Riven (Heroic)
Signet of Suturing (Heroic)
Insignia of the Corrupted Mind (Heroic)
Will of Unbinding (Heroic)
Dragonwrath Tarecgosa's Rest 125 hit -> mastery
Mindbender Lens 31 crit -> mastery

2 points in Blessing of the Grove, DI enabled with 90% uptime, no Focus Magic, all epic gems fitting socket color
IS: Once each Eclipse
MF: Once each Eclipse
Starfall: During Lunar, 1 Target
Starsurge: Always

Class Night Elf, Professions Alchemy and Jewelcrafting
This nets me
50407,07 DPS
2806 Haste
2023 Mastery
5 points over hit cap


The profile I'm using for the 3101 breakpoint is:
Deep Earth Cover (Heroic) 126 spirit -> mastery
Petrified Fungal Heart (Heroic) 81 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Mantle (Heroic) 99 spirit -> haste
Woundlicker Cover
Deep Earth Vestment (Heroic) 143 mastery -> haste
Bracers of Flowing Serenity 66 spirit -> mastery
Deep Earth Gloves (Heroic) -> enchanted with 50 haste, no reforge
Girdle of the Grotesque (Heroic) 96 spirit -> haste
Deep Earth Leggings (Heroic)
Boots of Fungoid Growth 86 spirit -> mastery, enchanted with 50 haste
Ring of the Riven (Heroic)
Signet of Suturing (Heroic) 67 spirit -> 67 mastery
Insignia of the Corrupted Mind (Heroic)
Will of Unbinding (Heroic)
Dragonwrath Tarecgosa's Rest 125 hit -> mastery
Mindbender Lens 31 crit -> spirit

2 points in Blessing of the Grove, DI enabled with 90% uptime, no Focus Magic, all epic gems fitting socket color except for belt that has 3 orange reckless
IS: Once each Eclipse
MF: Once each Eclipse
Starfall: During Lunar, 1 Target
Starsurge: Always

Class Night Elf, Professions Alchemy and Jewelcrafting
This nets me
49995,77 DPS
3101 Haste
1959 Mastery
3 points under hit cap

I don't know which one i should choose..the second one gives me a little less dps, but i can achieve the 3101 breakpoint when i don't have Dark Intent
That's the reason i don't know if I should socket the VP boots with the first epic gems i have looted or not :(

#34 Brinohm

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 06:09 PM

Has anyone been using RAWR to optimize their gear? I've noticed it lately seeming to move quite a bit of reforging over into Crit rather than Haste or Mastery and wondered if I should trust it or not. When it suggested reforging haste into crit, I was getting a bit leery of following on with it's recommendations.

Also, has anyone been using Will of Unbinding (384)? I'm trying to decide if the int proc is worth replacing the 384 Charged Capacitor trink in conjunction with Insignia (384), that haste proc on Insignia just seems to good to pass up.

#35 Tecton

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:01 PM

:snip:(


Are you using Glyph of Insect Swarm at the same time as Starfall in Lunar only? Because without GoSS, you have to have Starfall on CD, as the cycle is too short to get Starfall every time otherwise. That looks to be inflating your figures.

#36 Slippykins

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 02:31 AM

**4.3.2 note: With the 4.3.2 PTR changes, WrathCalcs has spat out a few different numbers, I don't know whether it's due to the tier 4-set bonus changing, or something else, but the gear has been modified for the non-DI set. Namely, both sets now have the same gear, with a few nuances in gemming, but all else is the same... except DI.


----------------------------------------------------------

I had to tweak my DI build a little bit as I couldn't get the reforging done as well as I'd liked. On the shoulders and boots I reforged Spirit -> Mastery over Crit, as there was way too much spirit as a whole.

T13H BiS w/ DI build: 51675 DPS

Profiler - Wowhead


T13H BiS w/o DI build: 49424 DPS

Profiler - Wowhead


I'm trying to post this around to see if others can correct me on anything. I have done a multitude of tests on either spec, and I'll try to list them in case anyone thinks of them. I'll also update the list as I test more stuff.


DI build:

Reaching 3782 Haste breakpoint is a DPS loss.
Swapping with is a DPS loss.
Swapping with is a DPS loss.
Swapping with is a DPS loss.
Any combination of the above 3 items is a compounding DPS loss.
Swapping with any Deathwing weapon is a DPS loss.
Inconclusive whether will be better on AoE-heavy fights.
50 Haste to gloves is a 58 DPS increase over 65 Mastery.
**new: With a new reforging method, 1742 hit is achieved. Haste sits at 3000, and DPS has increased significantly. Glyph of Rebirth has been changed to Glyph of Focus, due to the Dragon Soul fights favouring Focus.

non-DI build:

Reaching 3101 Haste breakpoint is a DPS gain.
Swapping with is a DPS loss.
Swapping with is a DPS loss.
Swapping with any Deathwing weapon is a DPS loss.
Inconclusive whether will be better on AoE-heavy fights.
**new: Swapping with is a DPS loss. This change will only be valid once the 4.3.2 tier changes go live. More information at: The Moonkin Repository • View topic - Gearing in 4.3
**new: After attempting to find a better reforging method, the current one seems to stand as the best, with 15 hit over the cap. I can get the cap down to around 6 over the cap, however this sacrifices a little bit of haste and proves to be a DPS loss. No better reforging method has been found (yet).

#37 qae

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 03:52 AM

Are you sure that are lower dps than with full epic gems in the sockets?

I see that your profiles use Brilliant inferno rubies, but since has one more slot, epic gemming favor them.

They seem really close in value to me once gemmed with , and easily superior if you need the haste for the non-DI build

#38 Slippykins

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:08 AM

Are you sure that are lower dps than with full epic gems in the sockets?

I see that your profiles use Brilliant inferno rubies, but since has one more slot, epic gemming favor them.

(also, make sure you didn't forget the +20 INT socket bonus)


The WoWhead profiler doesn't let me put in epic gems, so I have to deal with just the rare gems. When I tested in WrathCalcs, I made sure to put in the epic gems and a +20 Int socket bonus. I posted my results on The Moonkin Repository:

Original Mycosynth vs. Flowing post:

Just curious why H Mycosynth Wristguards are being picked over Bracers of Flowing Serenity

Assuming epic gems, Serenity has 4 more int (not counting the socket bonus... it's probably 10 int, so 14 more int) and more haste. Am I missing something? Are people devaluing haste with a DI build?


I tested Bracers of Flowing Serenity in my DI build, adding 10 Intellect as a socket bonus, and WrathCalcs spits out 50495 DPS, and with H Mycosynth Wristguards WrathCalcs spits out 50632 DPS.

Not a very big margin, and the stat differences are (assuming epic gems):

H Mycosynth Wristguards from Bracers of Flowing Serenity

Intellect = 286 + 50 + 10 - (231 + 50 + 50 + 10) = 5
Haste = 81 - 152 = -71
Spirit = 122 - 167 = -45
Mastery = 179 - 0 = 179

If we assume spirit and mastery have the same stat weights since we reforge in and out of them synonymously (from Hamlet's EJ thread):

Bracers of Flowing Serenity 71 Haste vs. 134 Mastery + 5 Int H Mycosynth Wristguards

In this case, we're gaining roughly double the amount of stats in mastery vs. haste, and I think this should account for the 130 DPS.

Also, this is apparent for both the DI and non-DI build. The non-DI build with the crafted bracers is 48283 DPS, down from 48442 DPS. That's kind of surprising that you lose more DPS in the non-DI build, but I checked it by manually adding the stat changes, and sure enough it came to 48283 again. I'm not sure what causes such a difference, you might be able to find out though. :P


Then I altered the socket bonus from 10 Int to 20 Int, but it didn't make much of a difference.

Minor note, but Flowing Serenity socket bonus got buffed to +20 int - 6/12/11 Hotfix

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Still mainly a 71 haste vs 134 mastery discussion.


With a 20 Int socket bonus:

T13H BiS w/ DI: 50544 DPS (loss of 97 DPS)
T13H BiS w/o DI: 48329 DPS (loss of 113 DPS)

Mycosynth is still marginally better in the DI setup, and would be favoured in an AoE fight, but it's a substantial upgrade for the non-DI build, AoE or not.



#39 Devourer

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 05:34 AM

I just received my 4P bonus and it sims as a DPS loss over 2T12/2T13 by a very, very, very small margin (within the standard deviaton). Is 4P really worth absolutely nothing besides stat gain?

#40 nse360

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 07:36 AM

Just curious what you guys are doing on Madness for killing bloods. My guild is killing Green -> Red -> Blue -> Yellow and we're having trouble burning the bloods down without the 20% buff. When they spawn we finish the Blistering Tentacles and then let the bloods full heal before we start on them. I'm in solar and put down mushrooms as the tank groups them and then burst followed by hurricane. Worth Sunfiring them or no?

Here's the damage taken from all our attempts - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Any suggestions other than leaving Blue buff up the longest?




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