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[Resto] Cataclysm 4.3 (Dragon Soul)


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#41 Dav1l

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:24 PM

Check each individual explosion before you jump into conclusion. I couldn't find any Rejuv application that caused explosion. There are some strange explosions that didn't have either a heal landing or buff applying 2 seconds before the explosions from any of the healers, but no 'X gains Rejuvenation from Torty/Yach/Noldorimbor' and explosion following that in the first 20 wipes at least.

Wipe #6 World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
[21:21:46.563] Soraya Tranquility Kym +9045
[21:21:46.631] Kym Deep Corruption Kagemoth 50256 (A: 8431, R: 18340)

Wipe #15 World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
[22:46:02.775] Y�*ch Tranquility Zenevieva +12809
[22:46:04.486] Y�*ch Tranquility Zenevieva +12808
[22:46:06.305] Zenevieva Deep Corruption Roguishh 24915 (O: 2983, R: 37198)

The only one that I found looking suspicious:

Wipe #19 World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
[23:18:15.310] Kagemoth Prayer of Healing Sludgiez +8911
[23:18:16.948] Kagemoth Prayer of Healing Sludgiez +8739
[23:18:18.936] Kagemoth Prayer of Healing Sludgiez +8742
[23:18:20.165] YÃ*ch Wild Growth Sludgiez +1925
[23:18:20.517] Sludgiez gains Divine Aegis from Kagemoth (Remaining: 11698) (This one I'm pretty lost. There's no heal, but only a Divine Aegis application.)
[23:18:27.799] Sludgiez gains Rejuvenation from Torty
[23:18:29.294] Yor'sahj the Unsleeping's Deep Corruption fades from Sludgiez
[23:18:29.796] Torty Rejuvenation Sludgiez +5334

So we can see Rejuv application roughly 1.5 second BEFORE explosion and a hot tick 0.5 seconds AFTER the explosion. I can't explain that as I can't explain some other explosion that happened with no apparent heal/absorb landing 2 seconds before the explosion (see wipe #15).

It might be that a first rejuv tick applies a buff if you don't have GotEM talented, and that might be the reason why neither of us 3 noticed Deep Corruption getting a stack from Rejuv. If anyone has Yorsahj not killed yet and feels like testing, please do that. I will try to fraps next week if I get a chance to heal, but that's obviously Wednesday-Thursday at best.
Torte - Human Priest

#42 Playered

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 02:39 AM

Essence of Dreams (the green buff on Ultraxion) isn't benefiting from something from our healing and I cannot work out what. From my own and other logs I'm browsing on WoL we tend to get around 44%~ of our total healing done while having the green buff up while Shamans and Holy Priests get 52%~.

Example logs where the time frame is only after having the green buff, and being dated after the most recent change to the green buff:
2x Shaman - 53%
Holy Priest 50% & Disc Priest - 40%
Paladin 41% & Druid - 44%

It doesn't seem to be a matter of overhealing as we seem to have among the lowest % overhealing done by Essence of Life while other classes get around double that. I'm somewhat puzzled how we are aligned better with Holy Paladins and Disc Priests(!) in regards to this buff instead of Holy Priests and Shamans.

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#43 Hidden

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 02:58 AM

Essence of Dreams (the green buff on Ultraxion) isn't benefiting from something from our healing and I cannot work out what. From my own and other logs I'm browsing on WoL we tend to get around 44%~ of our total healing done while having the green buff up while Shamans and Holy Priests get 52%~.

Example logs where the time frame is only after having the green buff, and being dated after the most recent change to the green buff:
2x Shaman - 53%
Holy Priest 50% & Disc Priest - 40%
Paladin 41% & Druid - 44%

It doesn't seem to be a matter of overhealing as we seem to have among the lowest % overhealing done by Essence of Life while other classes get around double that. I'm somewhat puzzled how we are aligned better with Holy Paladins and Disc Priests(!) in regards to this buff instead of Holy Priests and Shamans.


If the December 2 hotfix is still intact, it'd easily explain your findings:

The minimum heal required to activate Essence of Dreams is now 1500, up from 500.


Thus it no longer triggers from most Wild Growth ticks + low stacked Lifeblooms.

#44 Playered

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 04:05 AM

If the December 2 hotfix is still intact, it'd easily explain your findings:

Thus it no longer triggers from most Wild Growth ticks + low stacked Lifeblooms.


It's invalid because Healing Rain should never trigger Essence of Dreams if that hotfix was still live and I made our Shaman test it tonight to confirm. All other logs of Shamans since the '06 hotfix have a mirrored healing value which includes Healing Rain.

It works as stated simply:
This buff will now activate once per second for each healer who has the buff, and the healing done by the effect will equal the amount of health healed by the healer within that one second window.


For what it is worth Healing Rain ticks about 600-800~ on a 25 man stack, Earthliving and Riptide are over the threshold. Holy Priest Mastery ticks are below 1000, their Sanctuary and glyphed PoH are fine. Lifebloom, Tranq & Rejuvenation are always over the cap and over half of Wild Growth (for a well geared Druid of ilvl 390 and above lets say) ticks are above the threshold.

The key issue here is that if Wild Growth was the main cause of the disparity for us, then Shamans would have an incredibly obvious dent in their Essence healing from Healing Rain being absent completely.

I don't know anything


#45 Kluian

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:28 AM

There's also a bug where Wild Growth won't be applied to full HP targets.

#46 Hidden

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:56 AM

Let's analyse the logs you posted earlier some further:
[TABLE]Name | Class | Raw Healing | Raw Essence | Percentage
Mizquink | RShaman | 10 483 363 | 5 123 471 | 48.87%
Belgwrath | RShaman | 6 800 850 | 3 386 915 | 49.80%
Sereph | HPriest | 9 406 655 | 4 510 547 | 47.95%
Frankwhite | DPriest | 8 793 325 | 3 251 115 | 36.97%
Arving | HPaladin | 12 169 491 | 4 571 045 | 37.56%
Cascata | RDruid | 6 160 021 | 2 577 455 | 41.84%[/TABLE]

That makes sense for everybody but the Druid (HPaladins and DPriests both got shields that probably don't count), maybe Efflorescence works like a pet here and doesn't proc the heal?

#47 zielik

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 03:40 PM

There's also a bug where Wild Growth won't be applied to full HP targets.


And I thought I was blind on warlord, thanks for confirming :P.

#48 Playered

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:47 PM

Let's analyse the logs you posted earlier some further:
/snip/
maybe Efflorescence works like a pet here and doesn't proc the heal?


Efflorescence is not being included on Essence of Dreams nor is Gift of the Earthmother. I also had a further disparity but I believe that was the heal proc from Windward Heart - I would assume Maw of the Dragonlord will have a similar issue but am unable to test that for now.

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#49 killy

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 05:39 AM

Regarding Deep Corruption, I haven't tried untalenting GotEM but even so, I think resto druids aren't so bad on Yor'sahj. During purple, I swiftmend a pet so Efflo does some nice healing without giving any stacks at all (without 4pc t12). Then RJ + HT should keep people up without giving any more than 2-3 stacks before the debuff refreshes, clearing the stacks. I find it's very easy to control stacks this way.

#50 P_H

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:07 AM

Sorry it took a while to get back, but putting Lifebloom on a pet does in fact work during phases with the Purple add up.

#51 Sasazuka

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:12 AM

Just tested RJ without points into GotEM and it was adding a stack of Deep Corruption. This is the log that shows this (hopefully - raiding at the moment so I can't verify it but it should be around that fight).

EDIT: I guess the logs don't properly reflect what I'm saying because I didn't get it past 5-stacks.

EDIT: So I did a bit of digging and I believe this may show proof that RJ without GotEM is indeed giving one stack.

[23:01:24.739] Hellobully afflicted by Deep Corruption from Yor'sahj the Unsleeping
...
[23:01:25.164] Cheesehoof Earth Shield Hellobully +6128
[23:01:25.484] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +*5162*
[23:01:25.539] Healing Stream Totem Healing Stream Totem Hellobully +2598
[23:01:26.339] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +2506
[23:01:27.112] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +2506
[23:01:27.978] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +*5162*
[23:01:28.787] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +2506
[23:01:29.605] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +2506
[23:01:30.415] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +2506
[23:01:31.187] Cheesehoof Earth Shield Hellobully +6129
[23:01:31.187] Cheesehoof Greater Healing Wave Hellobully +48437
[23:01:31.244] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +2506
[23:01:32.067] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +2506
[23:01:32.885] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +*5163*
[23:01:33.543] Miayo Beacon of Light Hellobully +16394
[23:01:33.543] Cheesehoof Greater Healing Wave Hellobully +46209
[23:01:33.705] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +*5162*
[23:01:34.558] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +*5162*
[23:01:34.752] Miayo Beacon of Light Hellobully +13482
[23:01:35.372] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +2506
[23:01:35.372] Akuzasas Lifebloom Hellobully +*38631* (O: 5820)
[23:01:35.985] Cheesehoof Earth Shield Hellobully +6129
[23:01:39.173] Miayo Beacon of Light Hellobully +17119
[23:01:41.985] Cheesehoof Earth Shield Hellobully +6129
[23:01:42.815] Cheesehoof Greater Healing Wave Hellobully +46450
[23:01:44.112] Cheesehoof casts Earth Shield on Hellobully
[23:01:45.304] Akuzasas casts Rejuvenation on Hellobully
[23:01:48.038] Cheesehoof Earth Shield Hellobully +*12581*
[23:01:48.038] Cheesehoof Greater Healing Wave Hellobully +54888
[23:01:48.185] Akuzasas Rejuvenation Hellobully +4489
[23:01:48.413] Miayo Beacon of Light Hellobully +17150
[23:01:49.147] Yor'sahj the Unsleeping's Deep Corruption fades from Hellobully
[23:01:49.301] Hellobully Deep Corruption Akuzasas 43726 (R: 11629)


I removed Vampiric Embrace as well pruned a bit of unnecessary information. I've bolded the relevant parts which includes 4 Greater Healing Wave, 1 refresh of Earth Shield (I don't think this causes a stack as it didn't cause any damage), RJ, and Deep Corruption removing from Hellobully and causing damage. You can see that my RJ didn't do any initial heal which means there was no GotEM (further proof here). Please refer to this log and the following queries if you wish to examine the entire log for yourself:

- Show events where spell is Deep Corruption
- Show events where event type is one of Heal, Spell cast and target is Hellobully

Also noteworthy is that Beacon and LB blooming didn't add a stack.

#52 Dav1l

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:39 PM

Yes, thank you. I've done some testing on my friend's druid and Rejuv without GotEM indeed adds a stack of Deep Corruption. I'm not entirely sure why I didn't notice it last week, but I'm still sorry for wasting your time :/
Torte - Human Priest

#53 Guest_Alzorz_*

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:28 PM

Regarding Deep Corruption i had 2 stacks applied when donig rejuv with GotEM tonight, is this just me or?
Also does efflorescence add a stack on its first heal? Think i had 4 stacks applied when doing rejuv -> swiftmend combo for efflorescence. Gonna try the pet thing next time.
Also does lifebloom add a stack if being refresed by another lifebloom?

#54 bluering47

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:00 PM

My experience regarding Deep Corruption:

Rejuv gives 1 stack per spellcast. With GotEM it gives the stack on application, without GotEM it sometimes doesn't give a stack until the first tick of healing. Subsequent ticks do not cause additional stacks.

Lifebloom being applied gives 1 stack. Lifebloom being refreshed gives 1 stack, regardless of what spell is used to refresh it, or how high LB itself is stacked. Ticks as it fades do not give additional stacks. Blooming does not give a stack.

Swiftmend gives 1 stack on spellcast, with or without Efflo talented. The extra healing done by 4pc T12 does not give a stack; either it was hotfixed not to or earlier reports of it doing so were incorrect. Efflo ticks do not give anyone stacks.

WG gives 1 stack to each player who receives a HoT, each time the spell is cast. Subsequent ticks as it fades do not cause stacks.

Regrowth and HT each give one stack on spellcast. Regrowth's HoT ticks don't cause stacks.

#55 Kluian

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:29 PM

Firebloom applied a stack last week. It was confirmed during one of our wipes when we were trying to figure out why people were randomly exploding (we had 3 resto druids in that raid at the time). Nice to hear it was fixed if that's the case.

#56 Sasazuka

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:18 AM

My experience regarding Deep Corruption:

Lifebloom being applied gives 1 stack. Lifebloom being refreshed gives 1 stack, regardless of what spell is used to refresh it, or how high LB itself is stacked. Ticks as it fades do not give additional stacks. Blooming does not give a stack.


Just want to make sure I understand the mechanics of Deep Corruption with LB. When I manually refresh LB with LB, I get one stack. When I refresh LB with HT or RG, would I get two stacks or one?

I know most people don't glyph RG and it's not really significant but does one gain a stack when it automatically refreshes when you glyph RG?

#57 Playered

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:36 AM

Just want to make sure I understand the mechanics of Deep Corruption with LB. When I manually refresh LB with LB, I get one stack. When I refresh LB with HT or RG, would I get two stacks or one?

I know most people don't glyph RG and it's not really significant but does one gain a stack when it automatically refreshes when you glyph RG?


The best assumption would be that you gain 1 stack per spell cast on each target that spell 'hits'.

Glyphed RG causes no additional stacks.

I don't know anything


#58 bluering47

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:57 AM

Maifax is correct, sorry for being unclear. Any method of refreshing LB adds exactly 1 stack of Deep Corruption.

#59 Thedave

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 09:22 PM

Let's analyse the logs you posted earlier some further:
[TABLE]Name | Class | Raw Healing | Raw Essence | Percentage
Mizquink | RShaman | 10 483 363 | 5 123 471 | 48.87%
Belgwrath | RShaman | 6 800 850 | 3 386 915 | 49.80%
Sereph | HPriest | 9 406 655 | 4 510 547 | 47.95%
Frankwhite | DPriest | 8 793 325 | 3 251 115 | 36.97%
Arving | HPaladin | 12 169 491 | 4 571 045 | 37.56%
Cascata | RDruid | 6 160 021 | 2 577 455 | 41.84%[/TABLE]

That makes sense for everybody but the Druid (HPaladins and DPriests both got shields that probably don't count), maybe Efflorescence works like a pet here and doesn't proc the heal?


I've been thinking about the Ultra healing topic a lot. My guild is strict-10, so my discussion is limited to that format.

For healing at the end, I think that the best crystal combo for your 2 healers is Green/Blue. Red is nice, but it simply doesn't give the fast healing needed for the 5:00+ mark and doesn't duplicate healing to every member of the raid like Green does. Let's assume you're all going with Green/Blue. If you give Blue to a druid (replacing his Red), his HoTs will tick faster - but he'll still have to spend 1 GCD per HoT, excluding WG. This pales in comparison to the 5 people that a priest can heal per GCD with the Blue crystal and the "God I hate you" spell that is Holy Radiance. The only case for a druid getting Blue seems to be if you have a resto shaman as your other healer: they experience a similar GCD-per-target limitation that a druid does and get a better benefit from Green than a druid. See Hidden's table above.

The deciding factor in my analysis, however, has been Tranquility. 5:00+ is all about chaining CDs to let you catch up with the massive damage going out. The CD we bring to the raid, Tranquility, is different from every other CD (aside from Hymn) the other classes bring in that it benefits from the crystals. Blue would just speed up the channel time and give it a few extra ticks, but Green duplicates the Tranq and distributes it evenly to all other members of your raid. What's better than 1 Tranq? 2 Tranqs that are distributed evenly (and effectively) to the raid.

Although other healer classes might get greater percentage benefit from Green than druids (see Hidden's table again), the fact that Green boosts a raid CD in such a massive way at the critical part of the fight (5:00+) has me convinced that Green is best for druids.

#60 Playered

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:27 AM

The deciding factor in my analysis, however, has been Tranquility. 5:00+ is all about chaining CDs to let you catch up with the massive damage going out. The CD we bring to the raid, Tranquility, is different from every other CD (aside from Hymn) the other classes bring in that it benefits from the crystals. Blue would just speed up the channel time and give it a few extra ticks, but Green duplicates the Tranq and distributes it evenly to all other members of your raid. What's better than 1 Tranq? 2 Tranqs that are distributed evenly (and effectively) to the raid.

Although other healer classes might get greater percentage benefit from Green than druids (see Hidden's table again), the fact that Green boosts a raid CD in such a massive way at the critical part of the fight (5:00+) has me convinced that Green is best for druids.


I fail to see how Tranq will be inferior in any meaningful way by having red instead of green? none of it will overheal and it will heal exactly the same amount - especially in 10 man where each member will get 2 ticks (as it will alternate between 5 people, and then the other 5 people due to the spike in health) regardless.

Blue is unquestionably bad for us either way but I don't believe it has ever been suggested that we take blue.

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