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Demonology in Cataclysm (4.3 Release)


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#41 Jmickey

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 02:57 PM

I was wondering if anyone has done or could do the math regarding whether or not Demo has a soft haste cap which may cause it's weight to drop in regards to haste > crit > mastery.

As an aside, yet slightly related discussion - most of the currently available dps cloth epics have mastery on them, a stat we currently are ignoring. Is there a consensus on how this may affect Demo's viability as raids progress deeper into content as opposed to Afflic or Destruct who value mastery much higher.


(Snipped you post to save room) Improved Soul Fire does provide pure haste, and to answer your question, yes there is a "soft haste cap", after 50% haste (2639 haste rating) the value of haste begins to drop below that of crit, this is mainly due to the GCD being 1 second.

The value of mastery as you gain gear will actually increase ver so slightly, due to gear having a slight effect on the proc rate of Impending Doom, as well as your pet damage increasing, as pets scale directly with our stats.

Sorry if this should go in the simple questions/answers forum. Thought it would be slightly more appropriate here and I haven't seen any discussion on it. Does HoG's place on the priority list still apply if I've just just refreshed immolate with fel flame (for whatever reason)? Does the nuke itself and the unnecessary re-refreshing of immolate really come before refreshing BoD/Corruption if they, say, drop off?


The main reason you prioritize HoG over corruption or BoD is because you are using it to refresh immolate. If Immolate does not require refreshing then the DPET of both BoD and corruption are higher. So if the CD of HoG ends at the same time BoD or corruption require refreshing AND immolate has a long enough duration left on it that it does not require HoG to be used straight away, then yes, cast corruption or BoD first, however, after this HoG will be next on the priority list.

Please Note: I am updating the thread to reflect recent findings in the Simulationcraft for Warlocks thread, and specifically this post.

Currently the pet to use in a raid is the Succubus, while glyphing Lash of Pain. If/When this changes, this thread will once again be updated.

#42 VoidStar

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 09:32 AM

Note: if we're using the Succubus for single-target fights the talent "Dark Arts" doesn't provide any benefit, so we can pick up even more of the wonderous filler tat that masquerades as "utility" at the bottom of the demo tree instead.

#43 Syrophenikan

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:29 PM

Note: if we're using the Succubus for single-target fights the talent "Dark Arts" doesn't provide any benefit, so we can pick up even more of the wonderous filler tat that masquerades as "utility" at the bottom of the demo tree instead.


No because the demo tree has the minimum 31 talents points in it so you can't remove the DA talents. Furthermore I ran simcraft with three points in S&F, two points taken from Emberstorm or Improved Immolate, and both ran roughly 100 DPS less than the current build in this thread. Someone in another forum I read made a suggestion that since Demon Soul with a Succubus provides 10% more Shadow Bolt damage that three points in S&F would be a DPS increase. According to simcraft, that's a negative, no matter where you get the other talent points.

Edit: misread the post, thought he meant taking points out of demo and putting it in destro.

#44 pRo-Micha

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:29 PM

Does anybody else have problem with the Succubus on Passive? Mine keeps running back to me, then to the boss to Lash of Pain him, and back to me as if she keeps dropping from combat. Putting her on defensive solved this, but still makes it a pain to micro manage her around when you switch targets or simply CC stuff.

#45 Lucrece

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 04:04 PM

Lash of Pain is making up 25-29% of my total damage in my encounters, with increasing efefct during movement fights. The closest to LoP is Shadowbolt at 18%.

Has anyone evaluated the value of mastery with the Succubus?

My succubus is getting 5.2k LoP's every global versus my felguard's 2k autoattacks every 2 secs and an average 5k Legion Strike. She wildly outperforms the felguard outside of burst rotations.

#46 niknar

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 06:33 PM

Does the Succubus' Lash of Pain qualify as a 'basic attack' and as such provide the warlock with mana via Mana Feed?

#47 zang1983

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 12:28 AM

Does the Succubus' Lash of Pain qualify as a 'basic attack' and as such provide the warlock with mana via Mana Feed?


It's listed as a basic attack on wowhead atleast. Haven't tested it though.

#48 VoidStar

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 10:39 AM

Does the Succubus' Lash of Pain qualify as a 'basic attack' and as such provide the warlock with mana via Mana Feed?


Yes, Lash of Pain is the Succubus' Basic Attack and yes it does return mana by Mana Feed. Given that LoP is instant and has no cooldown it wildly outperforms the Felguard's depressingly low Mana Feed supply (his Basic Attack is Legion Strike).

You'll notice that in the new simcraft outputs the mana return from Mana Feed is huge and almost removes the need for Life Tap entirely, the pre-raid warlock only gains 66k from Life tap (i.e. about 3 casts in a five minute fight).

I found it bizarre enough that the non-Felguard pets made such better use of the demo utility talents, now that the Succubus is also doing more damage I can't imagine Blizzard will leave things as they are.

#49 Wyked

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 09:05 PM

The only issue I have with the Succubus has been the lack of single target fights, where the FG's AoE was frowned upon. The only person in the raid beating my FG on most AoE is myself thanks to immolation and Meta'd Hellfire. Every other fight, the AoE/cleave of the FG has more than made up for his 'loss' of single target DPS.

Felguard has been best for me through testing. (The succubus does more single target dps, but my personal dps drops quite a bit due to the weaker Demon Soul, making her not nearly as good.)

~dy

#50 jagblade

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:03 AM

Here is a Macro I found useful from a friend of mine. This will add Felstorm to your Spells. If this Macro was posted in the old Warlock thread then im sorry.
#showtooltip Shadow Bolt
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast Felstorm
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/cast Shadow Bolt


I've tried that but found out that adding it more to Life Tap and Demonic Empowerment rather then Shadow Bolt give you more control over the AoE part.
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#51 Peste

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:17 PM

Lash of Pain is making up 25-29% of my total damage in my encounters, with increasing efefct during movement fights. The closest to LoP is Shadowbolt at 18%.

Has anyone evaluated the value of mastery with the Succubus?

My succubus is getting 5.2k LoP's every global versus my felguard's 2k autoattacks every 2 secs and an average 5k Legion Strike. She wildly outperforms the felguard outside of burst rotations.



I'm seeing this as well. I started really paying attention after reading your post and am seeing that Lash of Pain is doing the single most damage of all my abilities through out a fight.

I just did Rajh in heroic HOO and my succubus did a total of 616K+ damage where as my shadowbolt was my best spell coming in at 480K+

Does this mean that stat weight for mastery may be much higher than we have been calculating?

#52 Melfqw

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 07:33 AM

Therefore, at this current time (21st December 2010), Your demon of choice will be the Succubus


Then why would we spec into Dark Arts? This talent gives no bonus to a Succubus. Wouldnt those points be better used in a talent that would at least increase our DPS by a small amount, or something that would help us in CC situations like Aura of Foreboding?

#53 Ikshaar

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:10 PM

With haste being about best stat we can get, doesn't Enchant Boots - Haste would provide better DPS boost than Lavawalker ? or is the run speed improvement so good that you prefer +35 mastery over +50 haste ??

#54 pRo-Micha

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 06:28 PM

Then why would we spec into Dark Arts? This talent gives no bonus to a Succubus. Wouldnt those points be better used in a talent that would at least increase our DPS by a small amount, or something that would help us in CC situations like Aura of Foreboding?


I agree. Unfortunately there aren't too many great talents, but especially Aura of Foreboding helps in fights like Magmaw. The other point I just put into the Master Summoner in case the succubus dies, you get an instant revive with 50% mana off. Now it is on to wait what changes will be made to Imp. SF and if the succubus remains as strong as she is. For now she clocks in at about 25-30% of my damage on single target fights.

#55 Burberri

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 07:09 PM

You take dark arts because you use the felguard on half the fights anyway. Magmaw, Maloriak, Halfus (with whelps), cho'gall (axe throw to interrupt the tenacles in phase 2, felstorm the slime in phase 1), Conclave (plants), and I haven't done nef but I heard he has adds too.

If you want AoF (though keep in mind bad things happen when you root mobs in melee) you should take the points out of demonic rebirth. You can instant out a new pet. Just save a soul shard for it. The loss of 1 soul shard for instant SF is a trivial dps loss.

#56 colorzee

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:47 PM

According to my recount, my Felguard is doing around 30% of my OVERALL Damage.

This of course is subject to change on specific boss fights, but 30% is pretty significant. Significant to reconsider Mastery as a viable stat. Especially as an Orc Warlock.


Any thoughts/more solid #'s on Mastery?

#57 Burberri

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 07:52 AM

The less perfect your rotation is capable of being either through lag, movement, sloppy play, the more your pet will do in relation to you, and the more value mastery will have for demon warlocks. This is also true if fight mechanics allow you to take advantage of demon form like maloriak where you get +100% damage debuff every 2 minutes.

It also might be beneficial to have high mastery in a fight like Chimaeron where the burn phase isn't that long, and DPS matters a lot. So even though it might be less dps overall, its more dps when it matters the most.

Generally speaking its impractical to have radically different gear sets, and/or reforge/regem every fight so you want to go with a best fit approach unless you are a top 200 guild.

#58 VoidStar

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:09 AM

I was wondering about something I cannot work out how to test using Simcraft: specifically using the Felguard whenever Demon Soul is available and then swapping back to the Succubus afterwards.

So assuming that we're starting the encounter with Meta and Demon Soul you'd want to start the encounter with the Felguard out (popping Felstorm as well of course). If we pre-combat Soulburn and Soul Harvest then Soulburn will come off cooldown at about the same time Metamorphosis falls off, where we can use Soulburn to instant out the Succubus for ~2 minutes of her (much higher) dps.

When (or just before) Demon Soul comes off cooldown we can Soulburn out the Felguard, pop the cooldowns (Felstorm included) for a huge damage spike and you can then either leave out the 'guard or Soulburn the Succubus back out again after the cooldown is up depending on how many shards you've got left and the duration of the encounter.

This is obviously only for single-target fights.

This strategy means that we use up our Soul Shards demon swapping instead of being able to use them for instant Soul Fires (not a big worry for me really) and waste some casting or GCD time summoning a demon or two, but makes very good use of the Felstorm and Felguard's Demon Soul effect while still getting the benefit of the Succubus's better long-term dps most of the rest of the time. It also allows us to line up even more explosive cooldowns for extra damage burn phases.

Can anyone spot any obvious flaws with this idea?

Edit: This strategy would also work for Affliction, replacing the Felguard with the Felhound for its significant Demon Soul ability. I doubt it would be worth doing for Destruction.

#59 Lo'oris

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 04:56 PM

With haste being about best stat we can get, doesn't Enchant Boots - Haste would provide better DPS boost than Lavawalker ? or is the run speed improvement so good that you prefer +35 mastery over +50 haste ??


The run speed bonus has always been a must-have: running faster improves survivability and reduces the amount of time spent running (which you can then use to actually do DPS).

#60 Chardos

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 08:52 PM

  • Inferno now also increases the duration fo your Immolate by 6 sec.
  • Master Demonologist now increases the damage done by your demon servants and damage you deal while transformed into a demon by 16% (up from 12%). Each point of Mastery increases damage by an additional 2%. (Up from 1.5%)
  • Improved Soul Fire is now a Tier 3 talent, up from Tier 2. No longer increases your spell haste and now increases your Fire and Shadow damage done by 4/8% for 15 sec after you deal damage with Soul Fire. This effect has a 6 sec cooldown.


As has been mentioned in the other forums, the change in ISF is going to hurt both Affliction and Demo locks alot, whereas the change to Mastery might move this stat up from last place to ahead of Crit, and I'm saying might here as I'm waiting on a Simcraft to confirm this.




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