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Death Knight: Cataclysm Simple Q & A


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#1 jerrik666

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 11:58 AM

Quick question about the level 85 hit cap for frost DW: In the frost thread, Consider says:
"At level 85, you need 960 hit rating to be melee capped; 840 hit rating as a Draenei. This affects all of your melee attacks, white and yellow, preventing them from missing."

I'm assuming this is for dual wield and does this take into account Nerves of Cold Steel 3/3? Thanks

#2 Himsul

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 04:28 PM

That is not for dual wield, it is only for 2h frost. When you include NoCS and dualwielding you need only 5% hit (which is 600hit) and a lot more to get zero misses on melee attacks.

#3 Tianshaan

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 05:31 PM

I understand the purpose of the main tanking thread being information on endgame tanking, and the role of Elitist Jerks itself in the scheme of things.

That said, I was wondering where to go as a resource for tanking currently. At this point in time, (which is what most people care about) nobody is in the endgame - instead heroics are fulfilling that role, at least for most people.

#4 Draginclaw

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 06:12 PM

I understand the purpose of the main tanking thread being information on endgame tanking, and the role of Elitist Jerks itself in the scheme of things.

That said, I was wondering where to go as a resource for tanking currently. At this point in time, (which is what most people care about) nobody is in the endgame - instead heroics are fulfilling that role, at least for most people.



Try Index to our guides : DK tank basics for some basic information

#5 pyrous

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 06:26 PM

I was wondering where to go as a resource for tanking currently..


Death Knight Cataclysm (85) Tanking Guide : DK tank basics

Has about the most current info to date that I've found. A lot comes from discussions on these boards.

#6 Drasus

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 09:23 PM

I'm wondering what the best presence would be for DK tanks who find themselves in situations where they no longer need to tank, and only need to help the DPS finish an encounter (e.g. final phase of the Ozumat encounter, or any other "untankable" part of an encounter), but cannot switch their talents. Does DPS in blood spec benefit more from frost presence or unholy presence? I've been trying to test this empirically myself but it's proving very inconvenient; was wondering if anyone has some math/evidence that points either way.

My gut instinct was unholy presence, but I noticed that I spent an extremely long time just white-damaging, waiting for runes to come off cooldown, which makes me wonder if the 10% damage from frost would be better.

#7 Consider

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 12:24 AM

Improved Blood Presence is still superior in such scenarios: 20% increased rune regen, ability to use Rune Strike, and the additional AP through Bladed Armor outweigh the 10% dmg/runic and 10% rune regen/haste from regular Frost and regular Unholy Presence.

The decision might have been more debatable if they hadn't tacked on that 10/20% rune regen to IBP, but with that... there's absolutely no question.

#8 Woeful

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 08:07 PM

Consider, would you be willing to re-post the gear lists for pre-heroics, and pre-raid for DK's in this Q & A thread? I know they are available on your blog. Further I am aware these are not "best in slot" lists, but, are only a listing of some good gear to have while getting ready to raid. I found them to be helpful in my planning, and a nice resource.

#9 kymmico

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 04:50 PM

I have tried searching for the answer to this on my own and have come up with nothing. If I am a moron and have missed it, I'm sorry.

As a DK tank, in an aoe pull situation, why wouldn't your order (to start off) go something like DnD, Outbreak, Pestilence, BB? I have tried it myself and it seemed to work ok, but nowhere can I find anyone discussing the use of Pestilence after Outbreak to spread the disease and it seems like something that should work well. Thanks for any help!

#10 Kelthuryon

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 09:46 PM

Single Frost priority taken from Consider's thread:

Diseases > Ob if both Frost/Unholy pairs and/or both Death runes are up, or if KM is procced >
BS if both Blood Runes are up > FS if RP capped > Rime > Ob > BS > FS > HoW.

What if KM procs when no FU or DD runes are up? Is it ok to "waste" the proc on FS to maximize the number of procs, or is it preferable to go on with the priority regardless?

I'm guessing "don't worry about it, since FS dump is not far below in the priority list anyway so either your RP cap or your FU runes will come soon enough" but I would like a validation.

Otherwise, my priority would be:

Diseases > Ob If KM procced and FU/DD are up > FS if KM procced > Ob if both Frost/Unholy pairs and/or both Death runes are up > BS if both Blood Runes are up > FS if RP capped > Rime > Ob > BS > FS > HoW

#11 Amroo

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 02:52 PM

I have tried searching for the answer to this on my own and have come up with nothing. If I am a moron and have missed it, I'm sorry.

As a DK tank, in an aoe pull situation, why wouldn't your order (to start off) go something like DnD, Outbreak, Pestilence, BB? I have tried it myself and it seemed to work ok, but nowhere can I find anyone discussing the use of Pestilence after Outbreak to spread the disease and it seems like something that should work well. Thanks for any help!


It hasn't been discussed in that context because you have to spread diseases anyways for applying the haste-debuff to all mobs. So it is sort of common sense that you use Pestilence (which is from a survival point of view the cheapest way, since manually casting IT on each mob costs a lot of Death Strikes). Things are not as easy to calcualte if someone else provides the haste-debuff and things boil down to a simple matter of threat, because you are sacrificing a Heart Strike (or Blood Boil if there are many mobs) for the Pestilence. In this case it's often better to not spread diseases at all, but it depends on the number of mobs and how long they are expected to live.

You can be sure that I will never post something anymore. Your arrogance and snobism makes me feel sick, enjoy your idiot infractions. Your community just lost one of the best moonkin of the alliance (gearscore).


#12 Niallest

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 02:21 PM

At the beginner levels of heroic gear (ilvl 230ish) with hit around 6.5% and expertise around 20, both nearing the cap but not quite there. Dodge/parry around 11%. Is it advisable at this content/gear level to gem/reforge for more hit/exp to get closer to the cap, more mastery for the blood shield, or higher avoidance? Assuming that all of this is purely for tanking heroics, of course.

#13 Roop

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 02:28 PM

At the beginner levels of heroic gear (ilvl 230ish) with hit around 6.5% and expertise around 20, both nearing the cap but not quite there. Dodge/parry around 11%. Is it advisable at this content/gear level to gem/reforge for more hit/exp to get closer to the cap, more mastery for the blood shield, or higher avoidance? Assuming that all of this is purely for tanking heroics, of course.


Remember that for heroics, the boss's are not +3 level, or "boss" ?? level.. they are infact still only level 87

This means that for hit you only need 6% and expertise 24 rating total (meaning 24 on your paper doll) in order to not get a miss or a dodge (parry is higher obviously)

Its a common mistake that I see Dk's doing at the moment aiming for "raid" level of hit and expertise when they are only doing heroics, and it makes life a HELL of alot easier to get to 6% hit and 24 expertise rather than 8% hit and 26 expertise.

(please note these figures are relevent to a DK blood tank and other spec's will vary)

#14 ChaosPhoenix

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 10:06 PM

How much DPS improvement is Improved Bloodtap for Unholy DKs? I'm considering taking Anti-Magic Zone for raid utility, if the DPS loss is marginal. I'm seeing every standard spec taking it, but never saw anyone proving the point and I can't do it myself.

#15 LKratos

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 02:02 AM

How much DPS improvement is Improved Bloodtap for Unholy DKs? I'm considering taking Anti-Magic Zone for raid utility, if the DPS loss is marginal. I'm seeing every standard spec taking it, but never saw anyone proving the point and I can't do it myself.


The simple answer is, it's an extra free scourge strike once every 30 seconds instead of once every minute. Making a rough estimation, lets say you had a SS hit for 21k.

21000/30(seconds) = 700 dps

As opposed to untalented, every 1 minute

21000/60(seconds) = 350 dps.

So it scales with your gear, but at a decent gear level it will be a few hundred dps difference.

#16 ChaosPhoenix

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 07:39 PM

The simple answer is, it's an extra free scourge strike once every 30 seconds instead of once every minute. Making a rough estimation, lets say you had a SS hit for 21k.

21000/30(seconds) = 700 dps

As opposed to untalented, every 1 minute

21000/60(seconds) = 350 dps.

So it scales with your gear, but at a decent gear level it will be a few hundred dps difference.


Thanks a lot for the answer, sounds much better than I thought. Anti-Magic zone scales with AP, but I'm not sure if it "scales" in relation to incoming raid damage. I have yet to see, if it helps in an encounter more than extra 350 dps.

#17 Diello

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 03:53 PM

What's the value of hit rating over the 8% cap for dual wielding unholy DKs?

#18 nummy

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 07:34 PM

I couldn't find any mention of putting Rune Strike in DPS macros, so I'm assuming the answer is no, but would like confirmation. With the change to Rune Strike, is it a waste of runic power to use it as DPS? Thanks.

-> found answer elsewhere. Rune Strike is also on GCD, so answer is probably no.

#19 twoeasy

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 06:01 AM

So, ideally speaking, Blood DKs desire an equal amount (not percentage but rating) of parry and dodge?

#20 MikeMo

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:57 AM

I have a few questions that I would like opinions on regarding Necrotic Strike. It's PvP-centric however so ignore if you have no care.

1. This scenario is a person is at 30% HP but has an NS stack on them worth 20% of their max HP. Would this be equivalent to somebody at 10% HP with no NS stack on them? This is assuming that the stack does not fall off and it had to be healed or the player with the stacks on them would die. Does anybody agree that this would be accurate?

2. Also, if you were told by somebody that NS was a 100% mortal strike how would your respond to them (constructively speaking)? As in, how would you explain the differences between an NS absorb and a 50% MS?

3. If you were able to get off six attacks in a row during a 10 second CC of,lets say, Scourge Strike. And the string was worth an average of 10k per strike. The player being hit by these strikes had 60k HP. They are now dead at 0HP.

Now, lets say the same players decided to change things up and instead used Necrotic Strike and each strike was worth 2000 damage with an 8k absorb. This leaves the player with 48k HP but they have 48k worth of NS on them.

Which situation would you prefer as a healer?

4. Last question. If somebody said that they would prefer direct damage over an absorb because they could heal the direct damage but they could not heal the absorb despite them being worth the same value, how do you respond?

The numbers are not accurate and are used to make the scenarios and questions easier. I already have my own answers but I was wondering how many people would response similar to myself and how many would respond differently. I am curious because of the sheer amount of people that seem to not understand the mechanics of how NS works.

Thanks :)




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