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Death Knight: Cataclysm Simple Q & A


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#41 timsobuff

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 04:04 PM

I am wondering if there is a good way to quantify the raid's dps increase for Improved Icy Talons? I would gladly take a personal dps loss for a raid wide damage buff. I know raid composition is largly what determines the value. Improved Icy Talons - Spell - World of Warcraft

#42 TheOSC

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:06 PM

Quick question about the Pet claw being macroed with SS. Has anyone else had any instances in wich you finish combat and your pet decides its a good idea to face pull another group of mobs. I was wondering if this may be caused by the pet attempting to use claw from my SS macro. (after combat ends your in the middle of using SS and pet jumps to claw a mob in the next set of mobs) or if this is just a part of blizzard's bad pet AI. I'm tired of my pet deciding to jump for a group of mobs that we weren't ready to pull yet.

Also if this problem is caused by the macro is there any way to prevent it from happening but still have the 2 skills bound to the same key.

(Edit: Grammar)

#43 shopshopshop

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:11 PM

I am wondering if there is a good way to quantify the raid's dps increase for Improved Icy Talons? I would gladly take a personal dps loss for a raid wide damage buff. I know raid composition is largly what determines the value. Improved Icy Talons - Spell - World of Warcraft


Look at logs to see what % of damage comes from white attacks (pets and tanks too). Add 10% to each source of white damage. Also take into account things you can't necessarily calculate, such as increased proc rate for, say, Killing Machine, based on higher attack speeds.

@TheOSC: You can put in a combat clause into the claw macro. e.g. /use [nocombat] claw

#44 teiglin

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 02:34 AM

Quick question about the Pet claw being macroed with SS. Has anyone else had any instances in wich you finish combat and your pet decides its a good idea to face pull another group of mobs. I was wondering if this may be caused by the pet attempting to use claw from my SS macro. (after combat ends your in the middle of using SS and pet jumps to claw a mob in the next set of mobs) or if this is just a part of blizzard's bad pet AI. I'm tired of my pet deciding to jump for a group of mobs that we weren't ready to pull yet.

Also if this problem is caused by the macro is there any way to prevent it from happening but still have the 2 skills bound to the same key.

(Edit: Grammar)


The standard solution is to "/use [@pettarget] Claw" causing the pet only to attack if it already has a target (whether because you keep it on defensive or have already told it to attack something).

#45 Excruciate

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 07:15 AM

So I was looking at top DK Tank on the armory, such as Riggnaros and Alurez, and noticed that there seems to be no reforging to reach the 8% Hit and 26 Expertise that I've always read as being the first law when gearing properly.

On a related note, the other DK Tank in my guild mentioned something the other day about not worrying about Hit/Exp as a Tank and just go 100% for Avoidance/Mastery (as Riggnaros/Alurez seem to have done). But everywhere else I look (like here for instance), I still see to make sure you get the Hit/Exp to their respective caps (which is how I'm currently set up at the time of posting this).

To my knowledge, I'm set up correctly. But now I'm kind of confused as to what to do... your thoughts?

#46 sp00n

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 02:41 PM

Using Kakories sim for dw frost, it seems like that in unholy presence i'm getting higher dps values than in frost presence. I have tried different sets of gear (including kahories gearset) and its still giving the same result which is contradictory to the frost guide. Am i doing something wrong?


I just tried that, and I get higher DPS values as well (+250 DPS).
I'm currently messing around with haste values anyway, and this is another oddity it seems.

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#47 Fredgeot

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 07:56 PM

So I was looking at top DK Tank on the armory, such as Riggnaros and Alurez, and noticed that there seems to be no reforging to reach the 8% Hit and 26 Expertise that I've always read as being the first law when gearing properly.

On a related note, the other DK Tank in my guild mentioned something the other day about not worrying about Hit/Exp as a Tank and just go 100% for Avoidance/Mastery (as Riggnaros/Alurez seem to have done). But everywhere else I look (like here for instance), I still see to make sure you get the Hit/Exp to their respective caps (which is how I'm currently set up at the time of posting this).

To my knowledge, I'm set up correctly. But now I'm kind of confused as to what to do... your thoughts?


8% Hit and 26 Expertise are considered "Threat Stats". These stats are only there to help build up threat, and keep threat. Avoidance/Mastery are considered "Survivability Stats", and increase the survivability of the tank. Many seek a high expertise (around 20 to cap) and low hit to be able to still maintain threat, but without the cost of losing survivability. Because scaling has changed, and the current tier doesn't offer as much scaling as WoTLK, you would lose too much survivability in exchange for threat management with reforging to 8% hit. High expertise and no hit is substantially enough to maintain threat, while having high amounts of avoidance/mastery to survive.

I would recommend reading some of the threads in pwnwear.com, specifically from Insolence here.

#48 Defac

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:22 PM

Hi. I have a weird problem with my UH rotation. I follow the UH guide's rotation of getting diseases up, prioritizing DT, RC procs, SS, and FeS. However, somewhere in the rotation, my rune regeneration becomes extremely slow and I sit for 3-4 seconds without any abilities. I sometimes fire a DC during this runeless gap but otherwise, I just white hit for 3-4 seconds. Anyone know why?
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#49 MKlades

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:30 PM

You ran into bad luck with your RC procs. If you're sitting there with no runes and you have any RP, you should DC until RC goes up. You can also Blood Tap for a free SS, and if you still have empty GCDs then hit Horn of Winter. If you're out of RP and all your runes are down and RC didn't proc, well, that's what Empower Rune Weapon is for if you haven't used it already.

#50 glauf

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 11:06 AM

Haste Issue Causing Ability Errors - MMO-Champion BlueTracker

#51 Thesteve

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 07:45 PM

Anyone else seeing a Shadow Infusion tooltip saying +8% damage, but testing at the hotfixed value of 6%?

#52 tialaramex

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 12:25 PM

Anyone else seeing a Shadow Infusion tooltip saying +8% damage, but testing at the hotfixed value of 6%?


It's normal for tooltips not to be updated when something is hotfixed. The actual effect of a spell is server side, but the tooltips are client side AFAIU.

#53 Kalamona

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:09 PM

Is that possible, that the offensive stats also have diminishing returns like the defensive stats?

(I made some reforging and test (dummy and actual raids) and it seems, i can achive higher DPS if i have "balanced" stats)

#54 Amroo

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:36 PM

Is that possible, that the offensive stats also have diminishing returns like the defensive stats?

(I made some reforging and test (dummy and actual raids) and it seems, i can achive higher DPS if i have "balanced" stats)


What you describe is due to the fact, that any stat scales additively with itself and multiplicatively with other stats. Look at this example:

You do 100 hits for 1,000 damage each. With zero percent crit you will get 100,000 damage. With 1% crit you will get 101,000 damage on average, assuming double damage from crits for simplicity. This is a flat 1% damage increase. You need the same amount of crit rating to go from 1% to 2% and 2% crit will yield 102,000 damage on average. The absolut amount of damage increase is the same, but the relative increase is only 0.99%. The same from 50% to 51%, now its only a relative increase of 0.67%.

Same example with haste. With 0% haste you do 100,000 damage. With 10% haste and assuming all damage is equally affected by haste (which it is not, but this doesn't matter in this context) your attack speed goes from 1 second to 1/1.1 = 0.91 second. In the 100 seconds you formerly needed for 100 attacks you now get 110 attacks, yielding a flat 10% damage increase. Going from 10% to 20% haste will yield 120 attacks in the same time which is, again, the same absolute increase, but a smaller relative increase (9,1%).

Now, to finish this example, assume in a scenario where you have 0% crit and 0% haste crit would be 1.5 times as valuable as haste (due to the way your spec benefits from each stat). For the first 50% crit a 1% crit increase will always yield a higher relative dps increase than a 1% haste increase. from 50 to 51% crit will increase damage by .67% and since it is 1.5 as valuable as haste it has the same benefit as a 1% haste increase. After this threshold a 1% haste increase would yield a higher benefit than a 1% crit increase, even though crit has been better all this time.

This is just one reason why stat weights are never fixed and unless one stat totally dominates another stat their realtive weight is always changing. Add to that the fact that different stats require different amounts of rating for a 1% increase and that there are certain thresholds after which a stat becomes less valuable (hit and haste come to mind) and you can see why there are different stat weights posted in the DK dps threads for different average item levels.

You can be sure that I will never post something anymore. Your arrogance and snobism makes me feel sick, enjoy your idiot infractions. Your community just lost one of the best moonkin of the alliance (gearscore).


#55 duhwhat

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 10:03 PM

For a Blood tank, what is the value of crit and haste for threat? In other words, which one are we reforging on weapons to obtain hit, expertise, or mastery?

#56 Zure

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 10:43 PM

For a Blood tank, what is the value of crit and haste for threat? In other words, which one are we reforging on weapons to obtain hit, expertise, or mastery?


Haste is a survival stat, as it leads to more Deathstrikes per minute. So one should always reforge away Crit, not Haste for relevant content.

#57 RenRetard

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 12:36 AM

DnD is a high priority for us Unholy DK's. However, it pulls a lot of aggro. How do you mitigate the agrro while in a group? I pretty much have to stay away from DnD in dungeons to keep from pissing off my tank.

#58 Sonrisa

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 01:52 AM

If you are pulling aggro from a tank as Unholy, the tank is seriously terrible. We have very low TPS compared to other DPS classes.

#59 Theldon

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 03:57 PM

I haven't had much luck with the lag tolerance feature that was recently implemented. I find that if I have it enabled, I do less DPS. From what I've read on other blogs, I typically want to have this set to +10ms of my world latency. In raids I have approximately 140ms latency.

Is the lag tolerance feature not meant for melee due to the button mashing style of using our instants as soon as possible?

#60 Grota

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 08:05 AM

Anyone else seen this?
My interface tells me that i have 45.something% haster though i only have haste equal to 7.20% and since im a Frost DW i know i get 15% haste from my spec(10% from buff and 5% for myself) so thats 45-(15+7.20)=22.8% additional haste. I havent tested it yet to see if it's true but sometimes i've seen it change to the "normal" 23% or so.

Any help is accepted




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