Jump to content


Photo

Death Knight: Cataclysm Simple Q & A


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
178 replies to this topic

#161 Otou

Otou

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 10 July 2011 - 06:46 PM

If SimC is anything to go by, using it on a rogue, enhancement shaman, DW DK, or MM hunter will give a good increase. This seems especially true of Sub rogues since they'll heal the damage just fine.


That seems really off considering that haste is the worst stat for enhancement at the moment. I find it very hard to believe it would be more beneficial on a shaman then the unholy dk himself (haste is unholy's best stat). How are you comparing the dps gains?

#162 saboya

saboya

    Faceroller

  • Members
  • 550 posts

Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:02 PM

I believe TG Fury is still the way to go. SMF Fury doesn't benefit as much, although the rage gains are still amazing according to a friend of mine.

#163 Pimpmuckl

Pimpmuckl

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:57 PM

I was using RAWR heavily for my FrostDW, the Problem i am facing is that it tells me to do certain things i can not believe totally (since the 4.2 Guide tells me otherwise):
- Use my higher DPS Weapon in Offhand and enchant with Rune of Razorice (meaning i have 2x Razorice)
- Telling me to go heavy into Unholy showing a SICK dps boost i mean i can understand it but i was baffled (and he tells me to NOT spec Ebon Gargoyle which i kinda do not get)
- If i try to change an item in Rawr i get an XML error, i didn't find anything in the RAWR codeplex page (and tried to redownload rawr and use it in the browser)
- No Killing Machine Procs are shown in my "Rotation"
- i looked up the version of DPSDK Module and it was the latest?
- I have _no_ idea how i can tag items availible as it was possible earlier (with this green diamond)

Alright thanks in advance

#164 Shazear_Rawr

Shazear_Rawr

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 13 July 2011 - 04:15 PM

I was using RAWR heavily for my FrostDW, the Problem i am facing is that it tells me to do certain things i can not believe totally (since the 4.2 Guide tells me otherwise):

Your issues should be posted on the Rawr forums or Rawr Issue Tracker since this is the Simple Q & A thread, but I'll address some of these points. Some of these are legitimate defects that should be (or already are written up) in the Issue Tracker.

- Use my higher DPS Weapon in Offhand and enchant with Rune of Razorice (meaning i have 2x Razorice)

Razorice stacking is already written up: Rawr - rawr - View Issue #21131: [DPSDK] Razorice stacking

- Telling me to go heavy into Unholy showing a SICK dps boost i mean i can understand it but i was baffled (and he tells me to NOT spec Ebon Gargoyle which i kinda do not get)

Ebon Gargoyle? Heavy in Unholy meaning 0/31/10? I would need to see your character XML - please write up a defect in the issue tracker describing the exact nature of the problem.

- If i try to change an item in Rawr i get an XML error, i didn't find anything in the RAWR codeplex page (and tried to redownload rawr and use it in the browser)

There are already a couple issues related to this in the issue tracker. If you don't see one that matches the description of your problem, please write up a defect. Rawr - Issue Tracker

- No Killing Machine Procs are shown in my "Rotation"

Killing machine affects crit chance. Since I don't point out specific crits in the rotation report, why would I point out KM? Rest assured that Oblit & FS crit chance is affected by KM talent.

- I have _no_ idea how i can tag items availible as it was possible earlier (with this green diamond)

This hasn't changed. Click on the diamond next to the item on the right hand pane to toggle that you want that item marked available (green diamond). Shift-click will toggle the blue-diamond which locks in a specific gem/enchant/etc.

#165 Pimpmuckl

Pimpmuckl

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 13 July 2011 - 08:52 PM

Your issues should be posted on the Rawr forums or Rawr Issue Tracker since this is the Simple Q & A thread, but I'll address some of these points. Some of these are legitimate defects that should be (or already are written up) in the Issue Tracker.

Razorice stacking is already written up: Rawr - rawr - View Issue #21131: [DPSDK] Razorice stacking
Ebon Gargoyle? Heavy in Unholy meaning 0/31/10? I would need to see your character XML - please write up a defect in the issue tracker describing the exact nature of the problem.
There are already a couple issues related to this in the issue tracker. If you don't see one that matches the description of your problem, please write up a defect. Rawr - Issue Tracker
Killing machine affects crit chance. Since I don't point out specific crits in the rotation report, why would I point out KM? Rest assured that Oblit & FS crit chance is affected by KM talent.
This hasn't changed. Click on the diamond next to the item on the right hand pane to toggle that you want that item marked available (green diamond). Shift-click will toggle the blue-diamond which locks in a specific gem/enchant/etc.


Thanks so much for your answer, i already thought of the calculated damage of Obliterate/FS but was just too dumb to come up with it. As for Ebon Gargoyle, the module suggests me to spec DW Unholy with only 30 points in Unholy, leaving the Gargoyle unspecced. Then the diamond: I had a way smoother look back then (didnt found any screenshots on google..) and Rawr was kinda slow but now as super slow as it is now, maybe my pc lacks some libraries image: http://img121.images...4470/rawris.png.

Alright i'll head over to the rawr page to adress the issues.

#166 tpost76

tpost76

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 17 July 2011 - 12:07 AM

I have a question about stat weights for Unholy. According to the 4.2 thread our stat priority hasn't changed, but I'm seeing differences when using SimulationCraft to calculate my personal stat weights. Here is the general priority as posted in Heartless' thread:

Strength > Hit to Cap > Haste > Mastery > Expertise to Cap > Crit > Agility

When I run SimulationCraft for my toon, I come up with the following scale factors:

Str=3.1372(0.0709)
Hit=2.2117(0.0688)
Haste=1.6314(0.0684)
Crit=1.1487(0.0699)
Mastery=0.9455(0.0699)
Exp=0.6253(0.1016)

Here is the character I ran the simulation for: Nariir @ Suramar - Game - World of Warcraft

I understand that as you get closer to a hard cap, a stat like Expertise will become less valuable, so I'm not too concerned about the difference for expertise. I am very surprised to see Crit beating out mastery however. Any ideas why I'm seeing such a big difference? Should I really be reforging to Crit after Hit/Haste? I would actually be happy with this given all of the crit rating we are seeing on T12 gear.

Thanks!

#167 sevenflow

sevenflow

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 17 July 2011 - 11:09 PM

Currently I've been playing DW Frost in Firelands using my 378 Obs. Cleaver and my 372 Lava Spine.
Today I looted the Heroic 391 Skullstealer Greataxe, a 2H weap sporting the 2 best substats of Frost.
Would it be beneficial, DPS-wise, to change to 2H spec and use the 391 2hander or should I stick with my current DW setup?

#168 Darknesfalls

Darknesfalls

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 25 July 2011 - 05:18 AM

Welcome to the Death Knight Simple Questions thread. This thread is for all your simple questions which you expect to have simple answers and thus do not require their own thread.

Note that all forum rules still apply: we said simple questions, not stupid questions (which have no place on these forums). You're still expected to make a reasonable effort to find the answer yourself by searching and reading the threads and making use of spreadsheets and any other tools that may be available. If, however, you're fairly confident that your question is not easily answered with available information, but don't think it will generate sufficient discussion to require it's own thread, this is the place to ask.


Question Elitist Says Dual Wield expertise needs to be 178.9 Mine in Game as Frost is 820 at 27/27 ?
How do I understand what Elitist is saying ?

#169 Guest_-highwind-_*

Guest_-highwind-_*
  • Guests

Posted 25 July 2011 - 11:38 AM

A quick question on DnD:
Does DnD use a "snapshot" of your strength the moment it is cast or does it dynamically check your strength every tick (like dots do)?

#170 VoidStar

VoidStar

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 132 posts

Posted 25 July 2011 - 02:11 PM

A quick question on DnD:
Does DnD use a "snapshot" of your strength the moment it is cast or does it dynamically check your strength every tick (like dots do)?


The answer to the question: "Does DnD snapshot caster Strength" is "Yes".

It's a little unclear to me which option you meant the "like dots do" to be associated with. All DK DoTs (and indeed those of other classes as far as we know) take a snapshot of any caster stats from which they scale whenever they are applied (including when they're refreshed).

#171 Crow2

Crow2

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 25 July 2011 - 05:44 PM

For dps dks, just curious but is it worth breaking ilvl 372 t11 4pc bonus for ilvl 378 2pc t12 bonus? Or wait for 4pc t12 bonus?


Sin ive been playing around with my 2p n 4p sets and ive noticed for me personally as a DW F Dk the 4p T11 < 2p T12 as far as dps is concerned. I am now waiting until i get my 4p T12 before i start making changes the loss of 3% Str on full uptime over some scrub runic power gain *which we get if talented* is too much.

The best thing for you to do now depending on your server is to start looking for your 372 T11 H upgrades to maximise your dps and close the distance between your other raid members who may be having fun in their new 378 items.

#172 Malicii

Malicii

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 25 July 2011 - 06:39 PM

Sin ive been playing around with my 2p n 4p sets and ive noticed for me personally as a DW F Dk the 4p T11 < 2p T12 as far as dps is concerned. I am now waiting until i get my 4p T12 before i start making changes the loss of 3% Str on full uptime over some scrub runic power gain *which we get if talented* is too much.


4pc T11 is +3% AP, not Str. Big difference. And 2pc T12 stacks with talents.

If you're not continually wasting RP, 2pc T12 > 4pc T11. 2pc T12 comes out to +1.125 FSs per minute. For most people, that's +500-600 dps, not including the extra RI proc chances. Along with the stat gains, it's pretty clearly in 2pc T12's favor.

Also, you can build RP before the pull with it.

#173 arcgriffon

arcgriffon

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 25 July 2011 - 07:56 PM

Currently I've been playing DW Frost in Firelands using my 378 Obs. Cleaver and my 372 Lava Spine.
Today I looted the Heroic 391 Skullstealer Greataxe, a 2H weap sporting the 2 best substats of Frost.
Would it be beneficial, DPS-wise, to change to 2H spec and use the 391 2hander or should I stick with my current DW setup?


You'll have to look at your gear to decide that. You'll be losing hit that is on the cleaver and switching to 2H will cause you to lose 3% more hit with the loss of Nerves of Cold Steel. 2H is also a little less dps overall than DW. I think if you can compensate without drastically changing your other gear around then maybe its a good idea. Worse comes to worse its not that expensive to respec.

#174 Crow2

Crow2

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 26 July 2011 - 03:51 AM

4pc T11 is +3% AP, not Str. Big difference. And 2pc T12 stacks with talents.

If you're not continually wasting RP, 2pc T12 > 4pc T11. 2pc T12 comes out to +1.125 FSs per minute. For most people, that's +500-600 dps, not including the extra RI proc chances. Along with the stat gains, it's pretty clearly in 2pc T12's favor.

Also, you can build RP before the pull with it.



Actually I find this incorrect and Ill do more research into it and add some logs but sitting at 84.7% haste raid buffed and the GCD on our runes being affected by this allows us to be doing more Obs/HB ect ect which build up RP anyway. So what im saying is instead of looking at the snap shot stats of the Tpcs and comparing them look at how they stack over a boss fight with abilities and spec. If your haste is in the mid 80's ive found i have 2 lul periods in dps that last for roughly 3-4 seconds but other than that my runes are restting in a manner that allows me to Ob/HB then rune dump for an entire encounter (perferct scenario would be 100% uptime dps on a boss no moving no adds no switching targets no burn phazes).

Now add onto this the 2pc T12 you will basically end up getting KM procs with full or near to full RP thus making it unwise to do another KM ob which would see you over max your RP and wasting potential dps. So you would actually be using your FS when KM has procced because you have no choice but to dump or you will continously over cap your RP and thus drop dps.

For me being so high in haste i do not spec into butchery at all on my main spec and i only go 2/3 into RPM which allows me to best handle my RP. If your having trouble building your RP during encounters then your doing somthing wrong. The lack of thought on blizz's part when thinking of a suitable 2pc T12 buff is astonishing when comparing it to the 2pc bonuses of other classes. However saying that if you do decide to run it you can remove your points in butchery and add them elsewhere however going through each rank of the trees there is no actuall talent you can spec into that will directly increase your dps if you follow the provided spec for frost dks found on this site.

At the end of the day if your having dramas with building enough RP to get you through some lul points in your encounters then the 2pc T12 is ideal, if you are not having dramas holding a nice consistant flow through out an encounter adding more RP to the mix making you Dump more will see you do more KM Frost Strikes than KM Obs, thus seeing the drop in dps, then the 4pc T11 (preferably 372 for the minor stat increases) would infact place in higher than the 2pc T 12.

#175 Malicii

Malicii

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 26 July 2011 - 06:20 AM

You don't seem to understand. It's not about building enough RP to get through 'dramas' or whatever you're trying to say. Playing properly, you shouldn't really be overcapping RP much except maybe at the start of the fight, after using ERW, and during BL, so you can still wait for KM Obliterates like normal. It's 3RP/5sec. Not hard to work around, especially if you've played 2H Frost which generates a lot more RP. Also, it's not uncommon to have nothing to do even when playing perfectly, thanks to bad Rime/RE rng. Going by what you're saying, it almost sounds like you use all of your runes first before dumping your RP, which is doing it wrong. You can and should weave them inbetween HB and Obliterates when it makes sense to. I have nearly 2400 Haste unbuffed(80.38% on the character sheet), which looks to be as much or more than you when raid buffed, and the same exact spec as you(1/2 Butchery, 2/3 RPM) and do not experience what you're experiencing.

Please explain how 1-1.125 free Frost Strikes per minute and extra RI proc chances is going to lower DPS, just because you might use more KM procs on them instead of Obliterate? It's still free damage that should fit fine within the GCD cap. With how often DW Frost gets KM procs now, chances are you'd get another KM proc right after, or it would have overwritten itself anyway. It's inevitable you're going to be using about half of those KM procs on FS, just due to rune CDs, etc. Besides, an FS crit doesn't do that much less damage than an Obliterate crit. Mine only did an average of 2.7k less in the above Baleroc kill.

I look forward to your 'research' and your logs though.

#176 gamma_ray

gamma_ray

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 27 July 2011 - 07:41 AM

For me being so high in haste i do not spec into butchery at all on my main spec and i only go 2/3 into RPM which allows me to best handle my RP. If your having trouble building your RP during encounters then your doing somthing wrong. The lack of thought on blizz's part when thinking of a suitable 2pc T12 buff is astonishing when comparing it to the 2pc bonuses of other classes. However saying that if you do decide to run it you can remove your points in butchery and add them elsewhere however going through each rank of the trees there is no actuall talent you can spec into that will directly increase your dps if you follow the provided spec for frost dks found on this site.


This could be outdated now, but I checked your char sheet and it showed that you did have a point in butchery. While moving that point might solve your overcapping RP issues, I think that you just might be overcapping your haste as well. I'm not much lower than you on the haste rating. My char sheet commonly shows a piece traded in or out, but I raid with a 2H Frost build with about 2079 haste and a few other modifiers around. I generally have little down time, but I do have more RP since I have MotFW. Maybe losing a little bit of haste will make the tier set a bit better for you? At some point, more haste just gives your wasted RP.

#177 Pintofbrew

Pintofbrew

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 2,201 posts

Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:56 PM

In the case of ork and humans who get extra expertise with specific weapons, does one need to be expertise capped with both hands in order to ensure optimized damage for FrostDW? I'm assuming that even if OH isn't Expertise softcapped, overcapping Exp on MH just to reach the softcap for OH is probably less beneficial in stats terms.

The main reason I'm asking is that I'm not certain the sims correctly model differing Expertise.

#178 Skillswap

Skillswap

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 29 July 2011 - 03:06 AM

Edit : Nvm

#179 Malicii

Malicii

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 29 July 2011 - 07:00 PM

In the case of ork and humans who get extra expertise with specific weapons, does one need to be expertise capped with both hands in order to ensure optimized damage for FrostDW? I'm assuming that even if OH isn't Expertise softcapped, overcapping Exp on MH just to reach the softcap for OH is probably less beneficial in stats terms.

The main reason I'm asking is that I'm not certain the sims correctly model differing Expertise.


Just aim for Expertise cap on your MH. OH strikes always connect, so it would only affect its white hits.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users