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[Holy]Cataclysm Holy Compendium (4.0.6)


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#1281 Doovez

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 07:15 AM

Edit: I was searching around the pages a discussion about Ember and Burning meta gems but I didn't found. Can we start a little discussion about it? At my first sight, I see Ember over Burning cause the crit increase could end in the most of the cases in overhealing. But now i'm really in doubt, lol.


No matter what way you look at it burning is a throughput increase due to the amount of fights that have HR spam periods, even if it's very small.

I'd be very surprised if anyone with decent gear would still take ember, I mean its really hard to use all that mana without doing a bunch of overhealing anyway.

#1282 aggixx

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 03:21 PM

I'd say it'd be advantageous to take Ember in any situation where you're able to put out the HPS but not able to sustain the mana, even by changing your items and reforging around. In any other case (almost all of the time), I'd use Burning.

#1283 avivaik

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 05:12 PM

First off, thanks for all the awesome information. The only question I have left reeling in my brain after absorbing most of what is said is pretty stupid and simple.

Would it be better to reforge for the mastery or crit in order to hold statistically through a 6 minute fight? The only reason I ask is because I am in a group where the dps is pretty rough around the edges. I am trying to reason between the two so that I might have a change of deducing some of my repair bill while also affording the group a little more of a chance to stay alive.

#1284 Bygbyron3

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 04:50 PM

Hey Guys Quick question. Right now I am using heroic Jaws, 2pT12 and 2pT13 and I feel I have to much regen. I am sitting at about 2960 Spirit without any stacks from Heart of the Unliving and feel I should dial some of that back, what is a good place for spirit right now? I have been looking at Rawr and it had been telling me to dump all of my Spirit into crit, which I can do I just don't want to go diving into hard modes without enough spirit. Thanks a bunch

Dadeeps/Zero Coordination/Whisperwind

Heart of the Unliving, Jaws of Defeat, and both 2pT12 with 2pT13 are currently some of the best tools we have for longevity. As for how much longevity you need, it comes down to how comfortable you are with your level of regeneration in the given raid environment, the amount of healers being utilized, healing assignments, play-style, etc. so I can't give any absolute amount of regeneration that is necessary. The best reply I can give is that browsing through armory most holy paladins progressing in heroic DS are sitting around 3000-3500 spirit, so you're definitely in the ballpark especially with those overpowered trinkets.

Be weary of simulations and theory-crafting for healing as healing is reactive and it isn't possible to predict how much unnecessary damage your raid may take by ignoring mechanics or standing in fire or when your tank has horrible RNG and doesn't avoid anything. Most healer sims have some sort of sliding scale with throughput on one side of the spectrum and longevity on the opposite side, try messing around with those kinds of settings before arriving at a conclusion such as "replacing all spirit with crit."

If you really do have so much excess mana and for whatever reason you can't reduce the number of healers in your raid composition then there are plenty of itemization tweaks you could do to trade some longevity for throughput. Looks like you've already done these, but using power torrent instead of heartsong and the burning meta gem instead of the ember meta gem are examples of trading longevity for throughput. A healer can also use caster gear without spirit or hit and reforge a secondary stat to spirit for a small trade-off. I like to use 4pT13 for some encounters where mana isn't tight as well.

This kind of a question all healers ask themselves from time to time as balancing longevity and throughput is crucial although I'm fairly certain once you delve deeper into heroic encounters appropriate for your gear level the excess longevity will be a nice cushion.

#1285 Phosethedwarf

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:12 PM

Hey guys, I was just wondering... could we start talking about HM Spine + Madness stat weights?

We have progressed pretty far into 25m HM Spine over the last 2 weeks and I have been trying out some stats. My most effective strategy so far has been switching my beacon onto the next debuff and healing the other most recent debuff with a combination of FoL, DLs and HLs, depending on CDs and mana (debuffs come out 2 at a time). It seems to be performing awesomely.

I was originally using haste, as I felt that I could maintain a consistent level of mana, meaning that I would get more casts that would heal for 100% effectiveness (the slower my casts, the faster the debuff fades, the higher the chance that my heal will be an overheal).

Now that we are getting past the 3rd roll, I am starting to feel that a combination of roughly 1000-1500 haste, then full crit/spirit is the best bet. My reasons should be obvious, but Spirit means I can spam the stronger heals more consistently, and Crit is currently doing so great because I am healing those with the full debuff most often, meaning that crit will almost always be entirely effective.


Anyway, what are you guys thinking? I am currently rocking (completely unbuffed):

7508 int
3300 spirit (+ 880 from 403 heart)
1087 haste (+410 Seal)
23.28 crit
10.39 mastery
+ Maw, though I also have 410 Vagaries of time, though I don't believe this is worth it (though it could be?)

I am no good with maths and statistics, but I can understand them, so if anyone could offer some advice that would be great.

#1286 Marchen

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:42 PM

I saw some people reforging to Mastery for Spine, but I have no idea why this is worth it. Wish someone could explain.

#1287 zelse

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:07 PM

I would assume for spine, mastery would help keeping people who have the debuff from dying as they cannot be healed up untill the debuff comes off. Assuming you do not have a disc priest, it would be beneficial to have at least one healer provide a shield mechanic on those who cannot be healed up with a debuff on them, I wonder how many paladins do this with a disc priest also in the raid. If you already have a disc priest, reforging crit seems like a pretty good idea which I have not tried yet.

I hate to go back to the solo healing H Ultrax again, but I am about to try solo healing heroic Ultraxion this week and was wondering why the healer in the video mentioned earlier uses DMC tsunami over H jaws of defeat. Has anybody done math on the two to determine if jaws of defeat is in fact a better mana return over the course of the fight? I am just trying to maximize my potential on the fight, and have both trinkets available to me. I apologize if this has already been discussed.

#1288 nedralixx

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:43 PM

I would assume for spine, mastery would help keeping people who have the debuff from dying as they cannot be healed up untill the debuff comes off. Assuming you do not have a disc priest, it would be beneficial to have at least one healer provide a shield mechanic on those who cannot be healed up with a debuff on them, I wonder how many paladins do this with a disc priest also in the raid. If you already have a disc priest, reforging crit seems like a pretty good idea which I have not tried yet.

I hate to go back to the solo healing H Ultrax again, but I am about to try solo healing heroic Ultraxion this week and was wondering why the healer in the video mentioned earlier uses DMC tsunami over H jaws of defeat. Has anybody done math on the two to determine if jaws of defeat is in fact a better mana return over the course of the fight? I am just trying to maximize my potential on the fight, and have both trinkets available to me. I apologize if this has already been discussed.



Actually for Spine, a haste or a crit build would be far better than a mastery one because they both favour our Beacon of Light transfer, whereas mastery doesn't. In Spine you're supposed to Beacon swap for all fight and it's our number one healing skill for it. So practically haste equals to more heals over the course of the fight, giving us more beacon transfers to debuffed players. Crit, also makes a huge difference in Spine, despite being an RNG related stat. Higher crit gives you a better chance to heal a debuffed person for double the heal and transfer a larger amount through Beacon to another player. So, i don't think that mastery can be a viable choice for Spine in particular, although in my opinion and for the majority of the fights, mastery can be a very good stat to invest on.

For Ultraxion Hc now, i assume that you will be taking the red orb only. Although mana should be an issue when you solo heal this fight, i would advise to stick to Jaws because it combines throughoutput through intellect and mana efficiency through its use effect. For fights dragging on to more than 5-6 minutes, DMC pulls ahead in terms of mana returns, but assuming that you're gonna have enough dps to beat it before the 5 minute mark, Jaws is a better option. Don't forget that you can also ask for an external mana cooldown if your group can bring that.

#1289 nightlily

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:50 AM

I know I've been using crit as well fpr Spine, we are also getting to the third tendon and mana is a big concern in that fight. Crit helps clear the debuffs faster and Mastery doesn't so I never seriously would consider Mastery, since I am on searing duty the entire fight.

Now, if we didn't have a disc priest to shield and I was HR'ing more, I would definitely consider Mastery. With the HP debuff that is going out, shields are useful. It seems to me to depend on your assignment and healing team, whether you're using beacon/directly healing the searing or whether you can afford to stick to HR most of the time.

Looking at heroic madness, I've noticed people advocating Mastery to conserve mana for the latter half of the fight. That's what I will be trying. If anyone is reforging for Haste instead on that fight I'd be interested in hearing your experience with that.

#1290 Rrui

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:19 PM

I run full mastery on Spine instead of crit simply because we don't have a disc priest. I find it really useful as the Amalgamation is doing its pulse aoe or during a roll to spam people on low health with the debuff to keep them alive for those short (10s max?) periods.




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