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Cataclysm 4.0.x Raid Mechanics


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#1 Zulkeir

Zulkeir

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 10:21 PM

Welcome to the 4.0.3 Rogue Raid Mechanics thread! As we begin (and some of us have more than begun) raiding, a lot of questions come up as to how to best use our survival and offensive strategies on different boss fights, as certain fight mechanics can interrupt our theoretical best practices. This thread will be for the discussion of raid mechanics in current top tier raids, and how they pertain specifically to rogue abilities. Things of interest would be is x debuff cloakable, does feint reduce damage from y attack, and does vanish prevent the boss from targeting you with spell z? The things we don't care about are how many times you wiped to which boss, or what your guild's strategy is. However, discussion on various talenting choices and specs, and their benefits for various fights is encouraged (for example, combat seems to be less efficient on Magmaw, due to KSp dropping you into lava if ill timed, and CDs not synchronizing with the exposed head phase, while Assassination's Vendetta synchronizes very well). Linking to a spec to show how various talents can be taken together, coupled with discussion of the talents and how they would improve dps and/or survivability, and at what cost is great and encouraged; posting a "rate my spec" post, is not. As always, make your own talenting decisions.

Please keep discussion on topic, and keep in mind the forum rules! You may also choose to browse a previous incarnation of this set of ideas to get a more appropriate idea of the purpose of this discussion. As always, also check the latest hotfixes (4.0.6) as some abilities may change over time. (4.0.3a hotfixes)

A blue star: * will indicate the latest set of changes. I have added a change log at the bottom so you can see how far I have gotten. As I have not personally done all of these fights, please let me know if I have misinterpreted your comment or tip. [edit: 3/1] Obviously we have come a long way by now, however this information is updated as people discover new things. Some information may be dated as the game can change quite rapidly; if you note a discrepancy, please let me know.


General
  • Professions
    • Engineering
      • s are useful for additional control on Cho'gall's Blood of the Old God adds. This also makes the mobs count as frozen for your frost mages.
      • Parachute cloak can be used to travel further on the Conclave of Wind encounter. With proper timing on platform switches and proper timing of a cancelaura macro, you can maneuver to land directly on the bosses, saving considerable transition time.
      • Grounded Plasma Shield can negate 8 seconds of Nefarian's aura during the execute phase of Chimaeron. It can misfire: an aoe taunt (irrelevant since Chimaeron is immune to taunts), increased chance to be critically hit (you will get one-shotted anyway) or a stun (this one is actually bad).
      • High-Powered Bolt Gun resets the swing timer and is not optimal to use in a standalone DPS rotation. However, the cast time in not interrupted while moving, and can be used during any movement/target switching portions of fights.
      • High-Powered Bolt Gun is useful on Cho-gall as a ranged, AoE interrupt.
      • breaks people out of worship on cho'gall and can be used in concert with the gun.
    • Tailoring
      • Net can be used on Toxitron slimes to prevent them from reaching their intended target. There is discussion that the slimes no longer re-target melee in the event of a root, but remains in dispute
    • Other professions?
  • Races
    • Horde
      • Goblins can use rocket jump to quickly re-enter the battle on fights with knockbacks off of platforms (Conclave, Al'Akir)
      • Goblin Rocket Jump can also be used as soon as the knockback hits, to override the movement effect and stay in place.
      • Chimaeron is classified as a beast. Trolls rejoice.
    • Alliance
      • While not mentioned beyond this point, Darkflight can and will always be useful anywhere sprint is useful. It will primarily be mentioned for fights where two sprints back to back are useful, such as kiting Atramedes' breath and Twin Dragons shadow realm mobility.
      • Every Man for Himself is useful on Halfus to remove the third roar, allowing for an interrupt.
      • Every Man for Himself is useful on Cho Gall, in case your Mind Control is broken via a fear or stun that may last an excessive amount of time or place you in harms way via shadowcrash.
      • Every Man for Himself is useful on Nefarion, to cancel a tail whip knock down and allow you to keep DPSing.
      • Escape Artist is useful for Nezir's platform for the Conclave of Winds.
      • *Escape Artist can be used to remove the slowing debuff from Gravity Wells in Ascendant Council encounter.
      • Shadowmeld can be useful on Chimaeron. (via PM)

Baradin Hold
  • Pit Lord Argaloth
  • Cloak can prevent the damage/debuff from Meteor Slash w/out increasing damage to others.
  • Feint can lower the damage from Meteor Slash.
  • Smoke Bomb does not prevent you from being targeted by individual fireballs during Fel Firestorm.

Blackwing Descent
  • Magmaw
    • Assassination Recomended- Due to alignment of exposed head phase phase with Vendetta, also strange KSp behavior has been reported. Also, since Dot's continue to affect Magmaw during opposite phases, refreshing a rupture just before transition gives a great energy boost.
    • Time to first slamdown is 2 minutes, so if you use vendetta right at the pull, perhaps even when running in, you will have it up for the entire double damage phase, at least the first time.
    • You can Vanish the larva if one latches on you, which causes it to despawn. However the infection will still spawn an add when the debuff expires.
    • Due to the Tank being eaten, and resultant threat issues (see below), it is recommended to tricks the Tank, especially after Exposed Head phases, and it is likely your DPS partner may not be able to immediately join the fight if they have no threat dump mechanics.
    • Using Killing spree during non-exposed phases drops you next to the spike, so it is safe to use.
    • Rupture/Bleeds/DoT's do carry over phases and continue to deal damage; Magmaw (and head) do not gain invulnerability between phases.
    • Infection is not cloakable.
    • Be wary of using Killing Spree during the exposed head phase. If you use it too late, it will teleport you with him, and drop you into the lava.
    • Be wary of when the exposed head phase ends, as you will have a large amount of threat in comparison to the tank who has been eaten for a fair amount of time. The tank can also not taunt until Magmaw returns to a normal state, so back off so you dont get melee'd (or use vanish at this time).
      • Heroic
    • Combat Recommended- With the introduction of adds that must be burned, combat gains a significant boost with two target cleave. Assassination will still do increased damage to the head with vendetta if allowed to remain on target though. KSp can be risky at various points in the fight: During transition can lead to falling into lava; successful KSp drops nears spike, if an add spawned and dropped fire there, it will be almost instant death.
    • Lava Spew can be cloak immuned, but not cloak resisted.
    • Lava Spew's damage can be reduced by feint.
    • You can also cloak and feint the shadow bolt volley(aka Shadow Breath) that Nefarian does at <30%.
    • You can cloak Blazing Inferno (which is the meteor that spawns the add), but it's pretty useless since you're still going to take damage from the Ignition afterwards.
    • You can not cloak resist Ignition (fire on the ground that the adds leave). You can cloak immune a tick or two if timed well.

  • Omintron Defense System
    • Arcanoron - If assigned to interrupt, make a kick macro with /stopattack so you don't hit the shield. Using focus/mouseover macros will also help. [kick macro discussion]
    • #showtooltip
      /cast [@focus,exists,harm,nodead][] Kick
    • Electron - Lightning Conductor can be cloaked.
    • Magmatron - Acquiring target can be cloaked to prevent the fire jet.
    • Magmatron - Feint works on Incineration Security Measure (and Acquiring Target).
    • Magmatron - Smoke Bomb does not break Acquiring Target.
    • Magmatron - Acquiring target can NOT be vanished to drop target and prevent fire jet.
    • Toxitron - Do not Vanish the slimes, they will simply choose a new target; Do not attacked rooted slimes, as any other trapped mob, they will attack you, and thus explode on you. - there are claims this was fixed.
      • Heroic
    • Arcanotron - If called to interrupt and toxitron follows Arcanotron, call for a ranged interrupter; Nef's Death Grip can make it difficult to get to the interrupt.
    • Electron - Lightning Conductor can not be cloaked. Shadow Conductor will also not fall off if it was empowered.
    • Magmatron - Acquiring target can still be cloaked if empowered. Shadow Imprisonment will also be removed.

  • Maloriak
    • No longer destealths on combat gain.
    • Can cloak Flash Freeze and Consuming Flames.
    • Can feint all of the damage in last phase.
    • Mind Numbling Poison can slow the cast speed of the Release Aberrations and Arcane Storm. If for some reason you don't have a warlock, mage...
      • Heroic
    • Assassination Recommended - (for starting attempts) To deal with Vile Swills more quickly. Once your guild has this on farm, your strategy may change.
    • You can cloak the Dark Sludge to not take any damage and feint to reduce the damage of it. Watch your debuffs and use feint/cloak accordingly.

  • Atramedes
    • While feinting would work to reduce damage, the sound levels mean you have to run away anyways.
    • Modulation can be feinted.
    • Searing Flame can be feinted.
    • You can however keep throwing at him while he is in the air to keep your DP and Fluid Death/Tia's stacks up. Just throw between moving from the bombrings.
    • Targeted fire beam during the air phase is cloakable to prevent damage and sound.
    • A rogue is able to solo the beam during the air phase. Hit the gong shortly after another player is targeted (preferably before they get hit). When Atramedes trurns to you, you can use sprint when the beam gets close to you, and when it catches up again, finish with cloak.
    • Heroic

  • Chimaeron
    • Feinting is only really useful in the feud phase. Use your first feint when his castbar is at 20.5 seconds, then feint on CD and you will have feint up for all the ticks.
    • Slimes during Feud come at 15s, 10s, 5s left on the cast bar. (Feud is 30sec, so this equals 15, 20, 25 seconds into the cast) Feint the first, cloak the 2nd, and feint the 3rd in order to have a CD up on each. (Bolded as timer vanishes on Heroic and you must time manually.)
    • During Feud, Double Attack occurs approximately 5 sec before the slimes hit, so you can use that as a 5 sec timer for cloak/feint.
    • Vanish can be used to drop threat during the final phase, however Rogues make the best "tanks" during this phase due to evasion, and reasonably good kiters due to sprint. If you notice that you are high on the threat list, your best best is to move off to a side so he has travel time to you, sprint kite, and then either evasion or vanish to buy raid time/personal time on boss. Since it only takes one hit to kill you, and rogues are one of the highest DPS classes during execute, it is advisable to lean towards the not dying portion of this.
      • Heroic
    • Mocking Shadows can be Cloaked and Feinted. This makes rogues able to survive longer than several other classes in heroic mode, as well as being harder hitting. Don't bother trying to evasion tank the boss.
    • Grounded Plasma Shield can negate 8 seconds of Nefarian's aura during the execute phase of Chimaeron. It can misfire: an aoe taunt (irrelevant since Chimaeron is immune to taunts), increased chance to be critically hit (you will get one-shotted anyway) or a stun (this one is actually bad).
    • Cloak may be better served to clear the caustic slime debuff, as feuds are followed by a massacre anyways.

  • Nefarian
    • You can feint the damage from the electrocute, just feint when you see the emote "The air crackles with lightning."
    • You can cloak off the magma debuffs when jumping up on the pillar, just cloak when you have 1-2 and you will get up with 1-2 instead of 4 and have taken hardly any damage at all.
    • Shadowflame barrage is also feintable, and fully cloakable. It has been recommended to save cloak for this, rather than to use on the lava.
    • Feint reduces tail swipe damage.
    • You can cloak the discharge damage, but you have to time it very well for when it goes off; this is 5 seconds after the emote.
    • While cloak would be effective on the lightning abilities in P1, it is recommend to use feint instead, so that cloak is available during phase 2 which is more healer intensive. **This depends greatly on your guild's strategy as to who is your primary target.
    • You can use KSp to get onto pillars quickly. (Tricks a target on your pillar, then use KSp to hitch a ride).
    • You can use the Human Racial to dispel the knockdown and keep DPSing, although you will be unable to move.
    • Chromatic Prototypes have a threat table, but do not seem to autoattack.
    • Chromatic Prototypes appear to be immune to mind-numbing poison and other cast speed reducing effects.
    • Gouge does not interrupt Chromatic Prototypes.
    • Smoke Bomb does not prevent Shadowflame Barage.
    • The lava is real lava and cannot be water-walked.
      • Heroic
    • Cloak removes the burning cinders debuff (the one that forces you to jump into the lava)

Twilight Bastion
  • Halfus Wyrmbreaker
    • Cloak can be used on meteors and fire breath.
    • Feint reduces flame breath.
    • Feint reduces Furious Howls. Feint during the first one so it goes off in between the first two, and you'll reduce the second two pulses.
    • From discussion of kicking the first Shadow Nova cast: The Storm Rider dragon releases a sort of hurricane which will hunt Halfus and upon touching him, will slow down his cast time on his Shadow Nova. The hurricane has traveltime, so shortening the distance between Halfus and Storm Rider ensures that he will get hit before he casts the first shadow AoE, making it easier to kick.
      • Heroic
    • Halfus can no longer be disarmed
    • Glyph of kick does not refresh fast enough for you to get every Shadow Nova.

  • Valiona & Theralion
    • No longer destealth on combat gain.
    • Feint and Cloak are both effective when stacking for Blackout or Twilight Meteor.
    • If targeted for Blackout, cloak can negate the entire effect, but will still attempt to damage allies; distance yourself from others, then cloak.
    • You can solo mitigate meteor by running out of raid and cloaking at the end of the debuff (right before the meteor lands).
    • Lightwells remain visible in the shadow realm (tip: Click the Lightwell)
      • Heroic
    • Subtlety Recommended - For survivability reasons in the shadow realm, especially once healers are forced to retreat. Cloak no longer removes you from the shadow realm, while cloak can now be used to mitigate more damage and increase survivability in the shadow, it is no longer a free escape either.
    • Various top-end guilded rogues spec subtlety for this fight, as a combination of selfheals and AoE reduction talents greatly extends the time available to kill adds in the shadow realm.

  • Twilight Ascendant Council -
      • Phase 1
    • Assassination Recommended - Due to Elementium monstrosity being the key burn phase of the encounter, and sub 35% execute mechanics, as that will be the monstrosities approximate starting life.
    • Rising Flames damage can be reduced by Feint.
    • Liquid Ice damage can be reduced by Feint.
    • Glaciate from Feludius can be feinted.
    • Glaciate does less damage the further out you are. Sprinting out will mitigate additional damage.
    • Glaciate has had weird reports of interactions. Those close in to the blast have had problems cloaking, while others claim that running out a ways and cloaking will prevent damage. It seems as if there may be two radius effects, and the smaller range one is not cloakable (current best guess).
      • Phase 2
    • Lightning Rod can be cloaked off, preventing the rogue from being targeted with the Chain Lightning. Some concerns have been raised about this dealing additional damage to the other targets.
    • Redirect can still be used when bosses switch. They get moved to a platform above you, and do not disappear.
    • Thundershock can be cloaked.
    • Thundershock can be feinted.
    • Quake can be feinted.
    • Cloak Drops the Levitate debuff. Use with caution. Cloak cannot remove grounded, as it is a physical debuff, so you can safely cloak lightning rod if you need to be grounded.
      • Phase 3
    • Vanish just before Elementium Monstrosity Gravity Crush ability. It still takes you up in the air, but you have no bubble around you and you take no damage while up.
    • Electrical Instability damage cannot be reduced by Feint

  • Cho'gall
    • Unleashed Shadows is reduced by Feint.
    • s are useful for additional control on Cho'gall's Blood of the Old God adds.
    • In phase 2, Smoke Bomb is useful on the tentacles that spawn to prevent them from targeting other people in your raid. This will most likely force them to target you, but you can negate their eye-beams with cloak.
    • Cloak before an MC will render you immune to the effect if you are targeted. (Cloak Immune.) If you use the CoS too early, you can still be MC'd and will then cause problems for those classes who have magic based interrupts.
    • Shadow Orders damage(AoE) from Cho'gall can be cloaked. It's usually casts following a Festering Blood.
    • High Powered Bolt gun is useful throughout the fight as a ranged, AoE interrupt.
    • The following macro is useful for interrupting worship targets:
      /targetenemyplayer
      /cast Kick
      /targetlasttarget
    • breaks people out of worship on cho'gall and can be used in concert with the gun.
      • Heroic
    • Combat Recommended- Cleaving the adds with BF is a great way to meet the DPS check.

  • Sinestra - Heroic Only
    • Assassination Recomended - AoE for whelps, efficient use of haste buff. *See both points below
    • Combat has the advantages of imp gouge, sprint CD reduction vis Restless Blades, and strong Burst cooldowns; but suffers from weaker AoE, and ease of energy capping.
    • Recommended glyphs: Gouge, Tricks, Feint.
    • Since backstabbing Sinestra can place the rogue in unfavorable positioning, the following build has been recommended for 10% damage reduction: wowtal. It remains possible to backstab should the rogue be careful enough to minotr twilight cutter timing.
    • Feint reduces the damage from Flame Breath, this is especially important during the last phase when Sinestra’s damage is not reduced by 40%.
    • CoS will work on Wrack. but you shouldn't do it as it will cause havoc for your dispellers.
    • Gouge works as an interrupt. You may want to consider using the Gouge glyph and maybe even speccing into Improved Gouge if you decide to play as Combat as it is very likely you will be assigned to stop Twilight Spitecaller Unleash Essence casts; keep in mind that unlike Kick, Gouge is on the GCD and that you can also use Blind as a backup.
    • If the Twilight Spitecaller gets stunned, it will do an AoE shadow damage knockback and become immune to damage. That buff is an enrage effect and can be removed with shiv.
    • Glyph of gouge is strongly recommended, even being described as mandatory.
    • There is a quirk in how the add spawns and when it starts to cast. Most often the 3rd spawn, the add will cross the purple flame barrier and will begin to cast Unleash Essence almost immediately, before he is even able to be targeted. This leaves you about a .5 seconds to react and get the interrupt; a /target Twilight Spitecaller /cast Blind macro is very beneficial for this.
    • List of other interrupts (non-rogue) that work: Psychic Scream, Scatter Shot, Repentance, Intimidating Shout, Death Grip. A setup of Death Grip + rotating Gouges has been recommended as highly stable.[Discussion Link][Grip+Gouge]
    • Late spawns are purely caused by the fact that they spawn a good 10+ seconds before they become targetable, so when one spawns at the last moment before phase change, it becomes targetable (and thus must be dealt with) significantly after P3 has started.
    • You should use feint in p3 for the breaths. Really, its a good idea.
    • You can also time cloak with the breath and immune it, much like you can do with the crackle from Nefarian. +
    • Cloak and Vanish cause shadow orbs to lose fixated aggro on you. Having the orbs ping pong based on healing aggro can make them harder to control.

Throne of the Four Winds
  • Conclave of Wind
    • Being in stealth does not register you as being on a platform.
    • Engineerinng's parachute cloak can be used to travel further on platform switches; with proper timing of a cancelaura macro, you can maneuver to land directly on the bosses, saving considerable transition time.
      • Anshal
    • Toxic Spores (stacking debuff from adds) can be cloaked.
    • MS effects reduce Anshal's healing (wound poison).
      • Nezir
    • All moves can be cloaked.
    • Feint reduces damage from Sleet Storm.
      • Rohash
    • Glyph of Safe Fall is useful for surviving Hurricane.
    • Feint reduces the damage of Hurricane, but it must be applied before the Ultimate is cast as you will not be in range in the air.
    • Recuperate can be cast while in the Hurricane. Since it has a long duration, it can also be used prior, but prioritize getting your feint off if you have CP's already stacked for it and you have to choose between the two.
    • Goblin Rocket Jump can be used mid-knockback to negate it.
    • Slicing Gale is slowable with Mind Numbing poison and other spell slow effects. While not interruptable, this may help with survivability, if DPS is not an objective.
    • Slicing gale cannot be smokebombed.
    • Cloak does not prevent knockback from tornadoes or Wind Blast.
      • Heroic
      • Rohash
    • Storm Shield can be feinted.
    • Cloak can drop the stacking debuff from Slicing Gale. This is important to use before hurricane if you are staying on the platform.
    • Storm Shield has had conflicting reports of being cloakable or not; it may be momentarily resistable, but perhaps not immunable throughout an entire cloak.

  • Al'Akir
    • Assassination Recommended - Due to alignment of execute phase with bonus damage mechanics, also strange and ill-advised KSp behavior has been noted.
    • If the gap in the tornado wall is one of the 3 closest positions, Al'Akir's hitbox is large enough that you do not need to stop DPS. 4th position only takes you off for a small amount. 5 to the end are the ones you should save sprint for.
    • Windburst can be feinted.
    • KS can be used to get out of a tornado.
    • If knocked off, a Goblin rogue can use rocket jump to get back on the platform faster.
    • If you prepare rocket jump before the cast, you can hit it as soon as you get knocked back to not move much and keep DPS on the boss.
    • Acid rain debuff can be cloaked off, so you never need go above 6 stacks.
    • Lightning Rod can be cloaked off.
    • Wind Burst remains cloak-imunable. It is not cloak-resistable.
    • KSp does not placing directly behind the boss, but rather off to a side; since any form of stacking/placement changes can be severely detrimental, combat is not recommended.
    • In phase 3 KSp will place you at the bottom of Al'Akir's hitbox in the lightning clouds below him.
    • Acid Rain is not reduced by Feint.
    • You cannot feint the chain lightning.
    • Tornadoes cannot be cloaked to prevent their effect, however cloak does prevent the damage.
    • You can no longer cloak-resist the Wind Burst. Despite the hotfix, you can still cloak-immune. This will prevent knockback and is useful if the tornadoes are badly timed. -hotfixed: 1/3/2011
      • Heroic
    • Wind Burst remains Cloak-immunable.
    • During p1 the Lightning Fields stay on the ground for a set period of time. The damage from the AOE lightning field (around 3000/tick) is affected by Feint, the Chain Lightning is not.
    • It is possible for two Lightning Fields to spawn in the same location, save Cloak for when this occurs.




On Cloak and Smoke bomb testing.

Cloak of Shadows has a few survival effects:
  • Removes all debuffs - Fairly straight forward, one key thing to note though, is that debuffs are removed on cast of cloak, some debuffs that are removed can be reapplied even while cloak is active, making the timing of cloak to remove debuffs a little bit trickier.
  • Provides momentary immunity - For a second or so, you are completely immune to all spells/effects, including some non resistable spells. This is what is referred to as cloak immuning. This can be a source of conflict as to whether cloak is actually usable on a various boss ability, as one person may successfully cloak immune and ability, while another who precast cloak, will get hit through the resistance. An example of this would be Al'Akir's wind blast. This spell is not resistable, those who precast cloak will get knocked back; those that time cloak for a split second before the spell goes off will immune the spell and remain on target.
  • Resists all spells for 5 sec - After the cloak immunity wears off, you have 200% chance to resists all spells. Some boss mechanics cannot be resisted. Cloak Resisting is the standard function of cloak.
  • Reduces physical damage by 40% (Glyph) - Makes cloak a physical as well as spell survival cooldown.


Smoke Bomb has a lot working against it to effectively test it, which will give a lot of false negatives/positives.
  • Some bomb prevents targeting - if your enemy has already targeted something, it's too late to smoke bomb. This is probably the biggest one, you need to use somkebomb preemptively. Once Magmatron has cast acquiring target and the dude has the debuff, its too late. Conversely, this raises the question of, if you weren't targeted, did the bomb work, or did he randomly choose someone else in your raid?
    • Smoke bomb apparently gives everyone inside it a buff/debuff; those that have it, can hit those with it and vice versa. Friendly ranged are ignored.
  • Smoke Bomb prevents targeting into or out of the smoke - If you cast it in melee, and the boss is in it, melee can still be targeted, but in theory range can't be. Conversely, if the boss moved out of melee you won't be target-able, but range will be. This makes testing on movement heavy fights a bit difficult.
  • Smoke bomb has an 8 yard range, and is cast on you - 8 yds is pretty huge, try using distract at some point, it's pretty big. Add to this that bosses have massive hit boxes, sometimes dificult to see, and while you THINK you cast it off the boss as you were running away, and then you got targeted, so obviously smoke bomb doesn't work... you might actually not have been far enough.
  • AoE is not affected - AoE spells, are not affected. 'nuff said.


#2 Zulkeir

Zulkeir

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 10:21 PM

Changelog:
  • 2010
    • 12/21 - 12:55 Phrequency-, Yurifel, Kryptyx
    • 12/22 - 5:50p Rakush
    • 12/24 - 5:42p Ends, Akotirous
    • 12/28 - 1:20p ShadowStrk, Naganuina, Belegûr
    • 12/29 - 12:20a Zulkeir, Istarian
    • 12/30 - 10:20a n0point // 2:00p edit for clarity after watching some videos.
  • 2011
    • 1/3 - 9:50a maintenance.
    • 1/4 - 1:15p Ireath, Machinae, Quackers, Istarian, Ends, Sakuru, Druss, Chult86 // 3:05p Killme888, Valadar
    • 1/5 - 10:15a xumie
    • 1/6 - 10:00a Cixel, Xildris
    • 1/8 - 12:30 Xildris, Phrequency-, Bakemono
    • 1/10 - 9:45 Zulkeir, maintenance.
    • 1/11 - 11:35 fasoulas, Crevan, n0point, Chimaeron is a beast! Hooray! // 5:30p Ieatpaperbag
    • 1/14 - 10:55 Tumblebeer, niemann, Litodude, ieatpaperbag, xumie, Aldriana, Denzeli, sp00n, atroxes // 11:25 rENaitre, Cixel, ieatpaperbag
    • 1/20 - 10:20 up to: Kinetick, Mazz on page 5. Was waiting for confirmation on some of the discussion. // 2:35p Killme888
    • 1/21 - 12:30a Clarifying correct guidelines about posting "rate my spec" posts. The correct guidelines are: no.
    • 1/25 - 10:00a dazed420
    • 1/27 - 10:35a Feist-Mok // 5:45p Kroyfel, ieatpaperbag
    • 1/28 - 10:35a Crevan
    • 2/1 - 2:00p Pyriana, Zujamar
    • 2/3 - 10:00a Phrequency-, Shadowwaltz, Sulphuric
    • 2/4 - 2:00a Phrequency-
    • 2/7 - 4:40p Stony (pm), Sulphuric
    • 2/10 - 10:15a Patch woes.
    • 3/1 - 10:00a fubar32, MikeJ714, Litodude, ieatpaperbag, fubar32, cleaning up some older information, adding wowhead links
    • 3/4 - 5:30p Pest
    • 3/10 - 10:45a káyl, Litodude, Crevan, Mitranim, sp00n, Zujamar, ieatpaperbag
    • 3/11 - 4:50p thanks to liftir for an awesome detailed PM on several HM's.
    • 3/14 - 1:00p Tumblebeer, Phrequency-, Ryazan, Runemist
    • 3/28 - 12:30p Sinestra interrupt discussion + Nef interrupt + Conclave Shield.
    • 3/30 - 9:30a Aldriana
    • 4/4 - 10:15a Jehosephat
    • 5/17 - cleanup and latest discussion on sinestra's shadow orb behavior with cloak and vanish.


#3 Kazuja

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 11:19 PM

Aquiring Target of Magmatron can be cloaked. This means no fire from him, no need to run away. At least it happend to me when i cloaked it.
Also Lightning Conductor from Electron can be cloaked.

Of course many other spells can be cloaked but i prefer to hold my cooldown for this two spells because i had to kick Arcanotron.

#4 Pottsy

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 11:25 PM

You can cloak both the stacking debuff applied by adds spwned by nature djinn in conclave of the winds, and Pit Lord Argaloth's debuff.

#5 Soldier62994

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 11:33 PM

Conclave of Wind

General:
All of the debuffs gained for lack of a player on a platform can be momentarily cloaked.

Nezir(Frost):
Every move can be cloak immuned, including his Super Ability and the stacking Wind Chill debuff. Feinting reduces te damage taken by his Super as well.

Anshal(Nature):
The green circle summoned by Soothing Breeze cannot be cloaked to avoid the silence
The adds' debuff can be cloaked off and immuned. Feint may work...cloak is back by the time another group is summoned
Crippling the adds can be very helpful, or a big mistake. Slowing them aids in kiting, however slowing them and then having a healing circle spawn beneath them can give them around 5s of immunity.

Rohash:
Smoke Bomb does not prevent him from targetting you with Slicing Gale.
Cloak does not prevent Tornadoes or the wind wall from blowing you.
In the event you're still on his platform for the Super, rogues don't take damage from the drop.
Vanishing prevents him from targetting you, but by staying in stealth you aren't registered as "on the platform".

#6 Tumblebeer

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 11:36 PM

All of this from an assa, normalmode view.

Blackwing Descent

* Magmaw
Time to first slamdown is 2 minutes, so if you use vendetta right at the pull, perhaps even when running in, you will have it up for the entire double damage phase, at least the first time.
* Omintron Defense System
Magmatrons aoe is good to feint.
* Maloriak
Can cloak the ice debuff and the fire debuff. Can feint all of the damage in last phase.
* Atramedes
While feinting would work to reduce damage, the sound levels mean you have to run away anyways. You can however keep throwing at him while he is in the air, and thus keep your DP and Fluid Death/Tia's stacks up. Just throw between moving from the bombrings.
* Chimaeron
Feinting is only really useful in the feud phase. Use your first feint when his castbar is at 20.5 seconds, then feint on CD and you will have feint up for all the ticks.
* Nefarian
You can feint the damage from the tail swipe, you can feint the damage from the electrocute, just feint when you see the emote "The air crackles with lightning". You can cloak this lightning as well, but only with the immune part of the cloak, not the resist.
You can cloak off the magma debuffs when jumping up on the pillar, just cloak when you have 1-2 and you will get up with 1-2 instead of 4 and have taken hardly any damage at all. You can keep feinting the lightning in this phase, and the shadowflame barrage is also feintable, this is also cloakable fully. You can throw on nef when your add is dead, and thus keep stacks up on him and yourself.
In p3 you can still feint the lightning, and you can cloakimmune the fire if you have to run through it.
In this phase blind is also real helpful to help with the addcontrol.


Twilight Bastion

* Halfus Wyrmbreaker
Can feint damage from the firebreath and the meteors. Can also feint and evasion the whirlwind, but that is not recommended due to the high damage.

Throne of the Four Winds

* Conclave of Wind
Can cloak the icedebuff on frostplatform, and feint the aoe here.
* Al'Akir
All damage is feintable (except acid rain), and the acid rain debuff can be cloaked, so you never have to go above 6 stacks. You can not cloak through tornados, but if you are goblin you can rocket jump up again if you fall off.
You can cloakimmune the knockback, which is really useful when it's bad timed with the tornados.


All in all, most spells can be cloakimmuned, but few can be cloak resisted.

#7 sp00n

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 02:10 AM

Question regarding cloak immunity: what time frame do you have for it, same as vanish before 4.x, i.e. only a split second?

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#8 Abaxial

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 02:15 AM

Al'Akir can be dismantled.
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#9 Assassinette

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 08:16 AM

Pit Lord Argaloth:
- Cloak can be used to nullify the damage of Meteor Slash and prevent debuff, without increasing it on the other targets
- Feint halves the Damage from Meteor slash, again without increasing it on other targets

#10 Drakoo

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 10:36 AM

On Al'Akir

- You can cloak the Wind Burst and you won't get knocked back
- Feint doesn't work on the chain lightning
- Cloak doesn't work on Tornadoes (you will not take any damage however)
- I managed to vanish a tornado, this happened once and I haven't tried it since.

#11 Killme888

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 05:26 PM

Feud on Chimeron goes off at these times left on the cast:

1st volley: 15 sec
2nd volley: 10 sec
3rd volley: 5 sec

So you can feint the first, cloak the 2nd, and feint the 3rd. You will probably come out pretty much topped up after feuds over, but not that it matters as he massacres right after.


Here's a spec that I suggest for raiders just starting out and are having difficulty surviving and/or their healers going oom raid healing.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

You basically take 16% less damage and heal for 5k+ every 3 sec with recup up. I can't count how many times its saved me the first week when everyone was still learning the fights.

#12 Sylvern

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 08:11 PM

Valiona and Theralion:

The Blackout debuff can be cloaked off, effectively dispelling the effect while preventing all damage to the rogue. The Blackout mechanic will still attempt to damage nearby allies, so the rogue should safely remove herself from the raid before cloaking.

Magmaw:

Confirming an earlier fix on Beta, it is safe to use Killing Spree while in range of Magmaw. The rogue will no longer be teleported into the lava behind the boss.

#13 Rakush

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 11:26 PM

Conclave of Wind

Rohash:

In the event you're still on his platform for the Super, rogues don't take damage from the drop.


I "tanked" him two ids in 10man now.

Using a 5cp recuperate and feinting just as he hits 90 energy completely negates any damage he deals while throwing you around, leaving you with ~99% hp before you fall down.

However, I always lost ~15% hp through falling damage, with glyphed Safe Fall.

#14 NetRollTUZ

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 01:43 AM

Throne of the Four Winds - Conclave of Wind:

Rohash - Smoke bomb on him can prevent from casting Tornados (only if u alone?) ? Or this was just a strange bug?.

I got this effect 2 times in 10ppl. But this is only 2 times from 12+13 pulls (10 man + 25 man). On next week I try to find right timing or something other.

#15 Machinae

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 01:48 AM

I tried cloaking the meteor on Valiona and Theralion when it is assigned to you but it seemed to jump to someone else, can't confirm though. One thing that definitely works is cloaking out of the twilight realm, though there are portals.

#16 Soldier62994

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 02:50 AM

However, I always lost ~15% hp through falling damage, with glyphed Safe Fall.


Both myself and the resto druid assigned to heal me didn't seem to take fall damage(she would pop into cat).

#17 Phrequency-

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 03:53 AM

On Onyxia and Nefarian:

Phrequency gains Phrequency's Cloak of Shadows.
Onyxia Lightning Discharge failed. Phrequency was immune.
Onyxia Lightning Discharge failed. Phrequency was immune.
Nefarian Shadow of Cowardice failed. Phrequency was immune.

#18 Eustache

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:20 AM

Twilight Ascendant Council:

- Lightning Rod can be cloaked off, preventing the rogue from being targeted with the Chain Lightning at all (this is also true for all the other debuffs - Waterlogged etc.).

- Even though the bosses "disappear" completely with phase transitions, Redirect can still be used on subsequent targets to transfer Combo Points.

#19 Yurifel

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 04:20 PM

On Twilight Ascendant Council:

- Rising Flames damage can be reduced by Feint
- Liquid Ice damage can be reduced by Feint
- Electrical Instability damage CANNOT be reduced by Feint

#20 Peeb

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 04:20 PM

Killing Spree will teleport you to the center of Al'Akir and keep you there until the buff wears off, it'll hold you there long enough to use it as a "get out of tornado free" card.




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