Jump to content


Photo

Cataclysm 4.0.x Raid Mechanics


  • Please log in to reply
400 replies to this topic

#41 Machinae

Machinae

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:26 PM

The information on Atramedes is somewhat lacking. We noticed that both of it's main AOE abilities can be feinted (Modulation and Searing Flame). On normal mode at least, the only real danger is a Modulation immediately followed by a Searing Flame, or vice versa; as long as you feint at least one of the abilities you can negate much of it's damage.

#42 Quackers

Quackers

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:14 AM

Doing Al'Akir just now, and the Wind Bursts seem to be changed. Cloak can not be used to avoid the knock back.

After a few tries it actually worked cloaking it. Seems a bit inconsistent for me. Will try to get a few more goes at it to pin it down.

Edit: I was a bit quick about this. Last 5 tries or so I've had no problems at all.



From the blue posts of today:

"It is no longer possible to fully resist Wind Burst from Al'Akir, avoiding all damage and knockback." - I'm assuming this applies to CloS

Source

#43 Istarian

Istarian

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:55 AM

It seems that, while you can Feint the Lightning pulse (at every 10% hp), you cannot pre-Cloak for an immunity. Also Killing Spree is a great tool for getting up on top of the Pillars. Tricks a DPS target on your pillar, cloak, then KsP (with another person on the first interrupt) and you should be up top with zero stacks every time (assuming you've saved Killing Spree for this mechanic). The mobs on the pillars seem to never use melee autoattacks, so threat shouldn't be an issue. I haven't been doing this yet but I think I might just keep Recup up full time to help out during Phase 2. Also unfortunately Lava =/= Water, so R.I.P. . Just like with other Knockdowns (Sartharion), Ony / Nef's tail-whip can be human racial'd to remove the stun debuff allowing for more damage, but you will still be incapable of movement after the dispel.

In short:

-Cannot cloak Electric Discharge
-Killing Spree for getting on top of Pillars quickly and easily
-Chromatic Prototypes have a threat table, but do not autoattack
-Recup. up during Phase 2 is quite helpful
- (reiterating, it's never worked on lava) will not allow you to walk on the lava
-Human Racial for the knockdown tail-whips

#44 Ends

Ends

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 37 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 08:01 AM

In short:

-Cannot cloak Electric Discharge
-Killing Spree for getting on top of Pillars quickly and easily
-Chromatic Prototypes have a threat table, but do not autoattack
-Recup. up during Phase 2 is quite helpful
- (reiterating, it's never worked on lava) will not allow you to walk on the lava
-Human Racial for the knockdown tail-whips


This is not entirely true. You can immunity cloak the discharge as seen here:

[20:52:12.715] Endz gains Cloak of Shadows from Endz
[20:52:12.715] Endz casts Cloak of Shadows
[20:52:13.015] Nefarian's Lightning Machine Electrocute Endz Immune
[20:52:17.761] Endz's Cloak of Shadows fades from Endz

You just have to have really good timing. I've only done it successfully a couple of times. As it is I just use the emote as my signal its hard to pinpoint exactly but the emote is a 5 second countdown. So if you're sub 40k health I can see the benefit of using it as a last ditch effort in conjunction with feint.

#45 Sakuru

Sakuru

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 28 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 08:50 AM

As mentioned, it is possible to CoS Nefarian's Lightning machine, but with tactic my guild is using (as many other I suppose), where we switch from Onyxia as she is arround 20-25% health to let the tank solo her down while the dps classes start nuking Nefarian (our tank solos Onyxia down in about one and a half minute or so), using CoS on the first Lightning machine (nefarian = 90%) leaves you with CoS on cd during the transition to phase two where survivability is much more a key then just mitigating 50-60k dmg during p1 where raid damage is relatively low anyway.

Using CoS during the swim up to the pylons leaves you with lower dot stacks, which will leave the healers with more time to focus on getting the rest of the raid up, and your survivability higher if you get a Shadowflame barrage or two from Nefarian.

If you want to save healer mana during P1, faint tailswipe from Onyxia during her Lightning thing where you end up standing behind her, and during Nefarians lightning machine, and leave CoS for the times that raid damage is high.

While we are nuking Nefarian, all dps (ranged and melee) are stacking at one spot which gives the raidhealers an easier time to aoe heal us up after a lightning machine strike, and the tank healer (if a paladin or shaman) can use an additional aoe heal to top everyone off whitout almost any offtime on the tankhealing.

#46 Ireath

Ireath

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:17 AM

Seeing Quacker's reply and the blue posts, there is no wonder why cloak wasn't preventing the knock back. Thinking of it, when I cloaked late (about 1 sec left) during the casts those were the times I would immune it. Earlier cloaks (3-4 seconds left) more often failed, so if anyone wants to test this I'd be interested in the results.

#47 Druss

Druss

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 142 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 11:31 AM

Couple of things i've noticed:

Magmaw - rupture/garotte does not carry over between phases i.e. don't drop bleeds (other than for energy returns) between phase switches - drop them early so as to get full duration and let them expire just as the switch is about to occur. I've also noticed that the small platform to the left as you face into the room, although a decent spot most of the time that allows for back attack positioning, is not in range for the head spiking phase (though you don't need to move that much).

Twilight Ascendant Council - Phase 2: cloak drops your grounded or whirlwind(?) debuff so be careful how you use it as you need these to avoid AoE abilities (unless you time cloak for them). If you drop them with cloak you may need to reacquire them quickly. As mentioned cloak removes lightning rod as well - I am 90% sure that this did not result in increased damage to the other 2 targets of lightning rod (who are hit by the chain lightning) but there was some concern from people in the raid that this might happen if lightning rod was cloaked (can anyone confirm/deny).

#48 Chult86

Chult86

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 122 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 03:19 PM

Twilight Ascendant Council - Phase 2: cloak drops your grounded or whirlwind(?) debuff so be careful how you use it as you need these to avoid AoE abilities (unless you time cloak for them). If you drop them with cloak you may need to reacquire them quickly. As mentioned cloak removes lightning rod as well - I am 90% sure that this did not result in increased damage to the other 2 targets of lightning rod (who are hit by the chain lightning) but there was some concern from people in the raid that this might happen if lightning rod was cloaked (can anyone confirm/deny).


Just Feint the special attacks by the two guys if you don't have the correct debuff, only hits for around 25k.

#49 Killme888

Killme888

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 156 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 07:38 PM

Just Feint the special attacks by the two guys if you don't have the correct debuff, only hits for around 25k.


Much easier to just stay in the air and feint the lightning aoe as the quake can do twice the damage if the harden skin isn't interrupted. Which also means you stay on the boss more so the chances of you interrupting harden skin is much higher as opposed to running around 50% of the time trying to get the right buff.

As for cloak on nef, most guilds that I've seen the fight gets on nef when he lands, gets him to 80% then switch back to ony. That means you can cloak the first lightning machine and still have it up on phase 2. Cloaking the magma seems like a terrible idea as the most damage I've taken from magma was 25% of my hp, usually less. I would much rather save cloak when nef decides to barrage you 5-6x in a row, that's when you actually need it.

#50 Valadar

Valadar

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 08:19 PM

Seeing Quacker's reply and the blue posts, there is no wonder why cloak wasn't preventing the knock back. Thinking of it, when I cloaked late (about 1 sec left) during the casts those were the times I would immune it. Earlier cloaks (3-4 seconds left) more often failed, so if anyone wants to test this I'd be interested in the results.


I haven't had a chance to try it since the hotfix, but I imagine the results will be the same. If you time cloak for just before the cast finishes (1s or less), you will immune the Wind Burst, and will suffer neither the damage nor the knockback. The same can be said with many other boss abilities such as Nefarian's lightning crackle (this one's harder to time, but can be done) and Feludius' Glaciate ability, should you be on interrupt duty. Remember that you have to use cloak just before the cast finishes, otherwise you'll take the damage anyway.

On that note:

Ascendant Council:
-Glaciate from Feludius can be cloaked as well as feinted.

Glaciate also deals less damage the farther away you are, so I recommend feinting then sprinting out, then back in as soon as the cast finishes. This might not be useful for most, but if you're on interrupt duty for Hydro Lance like I am, it's invaluable. I tend to feint+sprint the first and third Glaciate, and cloak the second.

#51 xumie

xumie

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 05 January 2011 - 05:16 AM

Following applies to heroic mode only:

Omintron Defense System > Electron - Lightning Conductor can NOT be cloaked if it is empowered by Nefarian (you also have Shadow Conductor). Neither of the debuffs come off.

Omintron Defense System > Magmatron - Aquired Target CAN STILL be cloaked if it is empowered by Nefarian (you also have Shadow Imprisonment or something of that, the Immobilization). Both of the debuffs come off and he won't shoot flames.


This fight is really weird.

#52 Cixel

Cixel

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 05 January 2011 - 10:40 PM

Wind blast can still be cloaked on heroic Al'akir. Works the same way as it used to on normal, negating the damage and the knockback.

#53 Ghuron

Ghuron

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:05 AM

I'm wondering if you can prevent getting hit by theralion's twilight blasts by using smokebomb while your raid is collapsing to deal with Blackout. I will probably try this out tonight, unless there is someone that can confirm this doesnt work.

#54 Xildris

Xildris

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 06 January 2011 - 09:52 AM

Omnitron Defense System- Magmatron Heroic
- Acquired Target can still be vanished and he will not shoot fire flames

#55 sp00n

sp00n

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,836 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 01:38 AM

Following applies to heroic mode only:

Omintron Defense System > Electron - Lightning Conductor can NOT be cloaked if it is empowered by Nefarian (you also have Shadow Conductor). Neither of the debuffs come off.


I think it even can't be cloaked if it isn't empowered. Either that or I was completely blind and didn't notice the big shadowy ray.

Stopped Playing


#56 Phrequency-

Phrequency-

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 02:18 AM

On Heroic Maloriak you can cloak the Dark Sludge to not take any damage and feint to reduce the damage of it.

#57 xumie

xumie

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 05:35 AM

I think it even can't be cloaked if it isn't empowered. Either that or I was completely blind and didn't notice the big shadowy ray.


When it is empowered the Lightning part only lasts a few seconds, when it isn't empowered the Lightning part lasts about 4 times as long. I'm almost positive I cloaked it off and didn't have the Shadow debuff, so it wasn't just the shorter empowered duration. I'll check again on Tues, could be wrong.

#58 Istarian

Istarian

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 07:09 AM

I noticed (yet cannot confirm if it was merely RNG or not) that, after phase 2 Nefarian still shoots down a few barrages of fireballs. During this time I have consistently dropped behind our pillar which I believe has effectively line of sighted me, thus causing me to consistently cease receiving fireball damage during his last few barrages. My question is, is it possible to use Smoke Bomb while on top of a pillar as a means of LoSing the fireball barrage, thus giving your healers some cushion room? (especially during a Lightning Discharge, but that is dependent upon your guild's strat)

#59 sp00n

sp00n

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,836 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:03 AM

When it is empowered the Lightning part only lasts a few seconds, when it isn't empowered the Lightning part lasts about 4 times as long. I'm almost positive I cloaked it off and didn't have the Shadow debuff, so it wasn't just the shorter empowered duration. I'll check again on Tues, could be wrong.


Just checked our (German...) WOL:

[21:31:36.712] Surprise afflicted by Blitzableiter from Elektron
[21:31:43.568] Surprise gains Mantel der Schatten from Surprise
[21:31:48.530] Surprise's Mantel der Schatten fades from Surprise
[21:31:52.686] Elektron's Blitzableiter fades from Surprise


Blitzableiter = Lightning Conductor and Mantel der Schatten = Cloak of Shadows.



You also don't seem to be able to resist the application via Cloak:

[21:46:20.999] Surprise gains Mantel der Schatten from Surprise
[21:46:25.845] Elektron casts Blitzableiter on Surprise
[21:46:25.921] Surprise afflicted by Blitzableiter from Elektron
[21:46:26.044] Surprise's Mantel der Schatten fades from Surprise
[21:46:41.901] Elektron's Blitzableiter fades from Surprise


Though that may have been combat log lag.

Stopped Playing


#60 Tinwhisker

Tinwhisker

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,032 posts

Posted 07 January 2011 - 06:36 PM

The problem with Smoke Bombs LoS mechanic is not that it's only provided by a few classes. Heroism and many other things fall into that category but something like Heroism is self limiting. The debuff Heroism applies prevents it's overuse in an encounter; Smoke Bomb has no such thing so it could potentially be used many multiple times during an encounter.

One Shaman (any Shaman) can provide all the Heroism you need just like one Priest can provide all the Fortitude buffs. There's no reason to stack the raid with those classes because you only need one of any class to provide it. Smoke Bomb on the other hand is only limited by the number of cooldowns you have available. More Rogues = more bombs = more benefit. It's for that reason that Smoke Bomb isn't worth putting on your PvE bars.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users