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[Cataclysm] 4.3 Marksmanship Guide


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#21 Caltiom

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 07:43 AM

3.6 Mastery and Mastery rating


The MM mastery is Wild Quiver (WQ). It gives our ranged attacks a chance to proc an additional shot similar to an autoshot. WQ can proc from autoshot and any of our special attacks. It also has a chance to proc from each shot that our MS does, making it very valuable in AoE situations.


I have a bit of a technical question, on how to calculate Wild Quiver Damage:

Is the WQ Shot an exact replica of the auto-shot, thus triggering 'Go for Throat' and being influenced by Artisan Quiver (+15% Auto-Attack Damage).

Or is it just a shot "similar" to auto-shot, but without the normal properties of an auto-shot?

#22 Guest_26thraider_*

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 04:01 PM

I don't know how much value you should put on the racial values. Blood Elves are ranked lowest with Tauren, despite having a better racial than Tauren, Undead, Humans, Night Elves and naturally Dwarves with no gun. Also, their base Agility is higher than all of them, save the Night Elves.
Also they are resistant to Arcane rather than magic on a whole.

#23 Whitefyst

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 07:57 PM

I have a bit of a technical question, on how to calculate Wild Quiver Damage:

Is the WQ Shot an exact replica of the auto-shot, thus triggering 'Go for Throat' and being influenced by Artisan Quiver (+15% Auto-Attack Damage).

Or is it just a shot "similar" to auto-shot, but without the normal properties of an auto-shot?


My current understanding is that the shots are only similar. Neither requires any action to fire and both are based on weapon damage with doing similar damage. I believe that WQ is unaffected by Artisan Quiver since it is not an autoshot, but we had thought that it was affected by it at one time.

WQ definitely does not provide focus from Go for the Throat. That would be a little overpowered in AoE situations with all of the WQ procs.

#24 cadavus

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 11:49 PM

Ok, playing with some numbers. Dropped into FD and had a DPS of 13.6k in MM (to give you an idea of gear I am basing this on)

Assumptions:
Arcane hits for 7336 (from FD)
Aimed hits for 12082 (from FD)
Buffs put Arcane at 8436 and Aimed at around 13290 (I guessed the weapon damage buff would buff aimed by about 10%, I honestly have no idea)
Aimed's cast time is 2.4 seconds


I wanted to see at what point casting Aimed Shots would be better than Arcanes.
Aimed gets the benefit of Piercing shots, so for an average aimed, add on 30% * Crit rate (38% in my setup)
Aimed also gets the benefit of Careful Aim, which increases it's crit by 60% for the first 20% (which is why the crit rate is higher for aimed than for arcane). That also means your pet is doing more damage from Sic'em.
Aimed is a 50 focus cast, Arcane is 22, so that has to be figured in at some point too.


But for raw numbers...
Average Aimed damage = Shot damage + Piercing damage = 13290 + 13290 * .3 * .38 = 14,819
Average Arcane damage = 8436

So to be equal DPS, aimed would have to have a cast time of 14819 * 1 / 8436 = 1.76 seconds
That means your haste has to be 1 / (1.76 / 2.4) = 36.4%

So at 36.4% haste, without considering Focus, Arcane and Aimed do the same dps, so you can interchange them based on focus requirements, timing, etc.

Given the higher focus costs, it is probably only worthwile if you are under hasted effects (bloodlust, rapid fire), but at that point, Aimed would be a much better dps choice

#25 Guest_26thraider_*

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 01:16 AM

As far as I remember, back in the beta thread it was determined that Aimed Shot resets Autoshot like it used to in TBC. That alone should kill any hardcasting. If not, then it might actually work, as the total buff will be considerably more than 10% overall (it is supposed to be a meaningful buff to the spec).

#26 Anarkii

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 02:08 AM

FD has PTR changes enabled as a setting. The difference between aimed and arcane is far more than you posted.

For my gear (full 359), Aimed with Piercing Shots is 26K and Arcane Shot is 13K. We have 40% + attack speed increase without cooldowns with ISS.

Now, the focus cost can't be ignored. My napkin math says we'll end up using Aimed during Careful Aim, Rapid Fire, Bloodlust and Termination range (because of the additional focus gain).

#27 Lupius

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 06:26 AM

Ok, playing with some numbers. Dropped into FD and had a DPS of 13.6k in MM (to give you an idea of gear I am basing this on)

Assumptions:
Arcane hits for 7336 (from FD)
Aimed hits for 12082 (from FD)
Buffs put Arcane at 8436 and Aimed at around 13290 (I guessed the weapon damage buff would buff aimed by about 10%, I honestly have no idea)
Aimed's cast time is 2.4 seconds


I wanted to see at what point casting Aimed Shots would be better than Arcanes.
Aimed gets the benefit of Piercing shots, so for an average aimed, add on 30% * Crit rate (38% in my setup)
Aimed also gets the benefit of Careful Aim, which increases it's crit by 60% for the first 20% (which is why the crit rate is higher for aimed than for arcane). That also means your pet is doing more damage from Sic'em.
Aimed is a 50 focus cast, Arcane is 22, so that has to be figured in at some point too.


But for raw numbers...
Average Aimed damage = Shot damage + Piercing damage = 13290 + 13290 * .3 * .38 = 14,819
Average Arcane damage = 8436

So to be equal DPS, aimed would have to have a cast time of 14819 * 1 / 8436 = 1.76 seconds
That means your haste has to be 1 / (1.76 / 2.4) = 36.4%

So at 36.4% haste, without considering Focus, Arcane and Aimed do the same dps, so you can interchange them based on focus requirements, timing, etc.

Given the higher focus costs, it is probably only worthwile if you are under hasted effects (bloodlust, rapid fire), but at that point, Aimed would be a much better dps choice


Considering that Aimed Shot is also affected by Careful Aim (and Piercing Shots), it looks like MM hunters should no longer spam Steady Shot for the first 20% of the fight, and instead use Aimed Shot to bleed off extra focus.

Also: The patch notes said the weapon damage of Aimed Shot was raised from 150% to 200%, but the Wowhead currently lists 95% for live and 65% for PTR. What gives?

#28 Shadowzuka

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 11:32 AM

Also: The patch notes said the weapon damage of Aimed Shot was raised from 150% to 200%, but the Wowhead currently lists 95% for live and 65% for PTR. What gives?


Aimed Shot on PTR has 200% weapon damage for the casted version and 102% for the MM Proc. I have no idea where blizzard pulled the 150% number from. As for WoWhead values, they might be showing the lowbie weapon damage, though things have been sorta bugged once they introduced the weapon damage scaling to limit lowbie dps on WoWhead tooltips.

With Aimed getting a lower cast time, would this increase haste's value some or will it still be the same due to the MM Proc once the bug is fixed and we'll still aim for certain plateaus? Am I safe in assuming that Crit > Mastery > Haste is still the way for MM reforging? (Haven't looked into MM theorycrafting all that much given how poor the spec has been doing for some time)

#29 Kaiten

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 02:14 PM

Considering that Aimed Shot is also affected by Careful Aim (and Piercing Shots), it looks like MM hunters should no longer spam Steady Shot for the first 20% of the fight, and instead use Aimed Shot to bleed off extra focus.


That'll only be the case if Aimed shot is changed so that it no longer resets auto-attack timer and allows auto-attacking while casting itself. Unless they changed that in latest patch.. that's not how it works atm.

Tbh, if Blizz are fixing MM, they should've took a different approach and not just flat damage increase(ok, and not cast-time decrease on AiS). The 3 issues I'd say are: lots of fillers in talent tree, fluctuative rotation(due to MMM being 60% proc) and the fact that signature ability is not used at all in the rotation. And so far it doesn't look like they're tinkering with either of those.

[On a sidenote, if AiS is to be used as opener and still be part of PvE rotation, then it'd be interesting to see the result of its cast-time being reversely dependant on Hunter's focus amount - as in, at 0 focus it's full length case and it decreases as focus goes up, becoming instant at some high focus number(90?). Would warrant giving it medium-high CD, so that AS would still be used for focus dumping, but... that'd actually make it useful instead of just giving it MOAR hurt]
Fide, sed qui, vide

#30 Whitefyst

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 06:01 PM

Yes, as long as Aimed Shot cast does not reset the autoshot timer anymore (which is a big wish), there is a lot of potential for using the cast AI in the MM rotation. Of course, even if AI works out better than AS theoretically, keep in mind that a long cast attack is less beneficial on movement fights or fights with a lot of interruptions to casts. Hence, under those conditions, you would want to use AS instead even if it is not quite as good in the theoretical situation.

Here is the current PTR shot data for my character:

KS: 17083
CS: 39161
AI: 23766 (38453 during CA)
AS: 12202
SS: 7969 (13102 during CA)

From my traditional MM analysis in the guide and not factoring in the cast AI:
1) Definitely still want to ignore AS during the CA phase as long as you are under large dynamic haste effects (RF or Bloodlust) where your SS cast time is close to 1s. You still want to use AS in the CA phase under slower SS cast times. Hence, nothing has changed in that regards.
2) Although KS got buffed, these changes do slightly favor the CS glyph, especially with Termination. There are still arguments and certain fights where the KS glyph is better, but the scale is leaning towards the CS glyph.

I have not updated my shot spreadsheet analysis for checking out the shorter cast AI (that will take a bit of time), but here is some quick napkin math. With the minimum 5.4% combined haste from gear and Pathing, ISS, and the 10% raid buff:

- During RF, we are at 86.6% haste and would have an AI cast of 1.2857s.
- During BL, we are at 73.3% haste and would have an AI cast of 1.3846s.
- With no dynamic haste effects, we are at 33.3% haste and would have an AI cast of 1.8000s.

Scaling the damage to damage per second of cast:

- During RF, AI = 18485 (29909 during CA)
- During BL, AI = 17165 (27772 during CA)
- Unhasted, AI = 13203 (21363 during CA)

As can be seen, all three AI numbers are greater than AS damage at a cost of 2.27 times the focus. Furthermore, although AI triggers Sic'Em too, you can do more than 2 ASs per AI as far as focus goes for more chances for Sic'Em procs.

Rough conclusions per phase:

CA phase:
- If under dynamic haste effects during the CA phase, the AI cast is pretty low and does significantly more damage per cast time than AS or SS. Since the special CA rotation while hasted generates well over 100 extra focus for the KS glyph case and a little over 100 focus in the CS glyph case, it is safe to state that casting 1 to 2 AIs (depending on focus)during the CA phase when hasted would be a DPS gain. I state 1 to 2 instead of 2 since we are not only giving up the focus generation from the SSs being replaced by the AIs, but we will also have less frequent free AI casts from MMM.
- If unhasted, the answer is a little trickier and I will need to wait until I fully model it to provide a definitive answer, but since the difference between 1 AI versus 2 AS is about 14K damage and 0.2s versus 6 focus and twice as much chance to proc Sic'Em, the data would seem to indicate that using AI instead of AS would still be beneficial during the CA phase when unhasted.

Standard Phase:
- When unhasted, the trade off between 1 cast AI versus 2 AS is 0.2s versus 638 damage, 6 focus, and twice as many chances for an Sic'Em proc. Thus, during the standard phase unhasted, it seems that AS is the winner, but not by much.
- When hasted, the situation seems to favor casting AI.

Term Phase:
The results are similar to the Standard Phase except that the additional focus supports the extra focus cost of AI. Need to model this before I can decide what type of rotation is best.

KS Phase:
Without Term, the results are similar to the Standard phase with the additional focus generated during the KS phase definitely supporting the extra focus cost of casting AI such that it is not a factor. With Term, I need to model it since the focus cost is definitely a factor when skipping the second pair of SSs for reduced ISS uptime.

I will not be updating the MM guide for any of the PTR changes until they become live.

Note that I have a concern with this data. As it looks right now and with how AI scales much better than AS, it appears that AI cast will marginalize the use of AS. Using AI cast is definitely superior during the CA phase and can be in the Term and KS phases depending on the situation. Even if AI cast is not the better choice in other phases, especially when not hasted, with scaling of gear, AI should eventually be favored.

Hence, either Blizzard wants us to normally use AI cast instead of AS instant (except when on the move) or I think that the AI and AS numbers will be adjusted some more so that AS is not marginalized and is still a key MM shot outside of the CA phase. Thus, I would not be surprised if AS damage is adjusted up some more and/or AI damage is reduced a little.

Furthermore, factoring in the AI cast will increase the value of haste for MM over the current range between the 5.4% min and 12.93% soft ceiling. Even at the 12.93% haste from gear and Pathing where the SS cast is 1s during RF, the AI cast is still 1.2s, so additional haste affects it. When under BL, 21.61% haste is needed from gear and Pathing to get SS to a 1s cast. In that much static haste, during a RF the AI cast is still over a GCD at 1.114s.

#31 ov3rl0rd

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 07:33 PM

I've done a few math about the new 4pc PvE set bonus:
The PvE hunter 4-piece set bonus has been redesigned. It now reduces the cast time of Steady Shot and Cobra Shot by .2 seconds.
Since it the 0.2 seconds will be taken from base cast time, we have:
Haste Effects| Total Haste |Base Cast|4pc Cast
No Haste|1|2|1.8000
ISS + Raid Buff|1.265|1.5810|1.4229
BL + ISS + Raid Buff|1.6445 |1.2162|1.0946
RF + ISS + Raid Buff|1.771|1.1293|1.0164
Glyphed RF + ISS + Raid Buff|1.8985|1.0535|0.9481

In order to free 3 GCDs per CS cycle, or 1.25s cast SS, one would need 13.84% haste from gear and/or Pathing. It's also notable that with the bonus, Rapid Fire glyph becomes pretty useless, since RF would bring SS cast to 1.01s.

Edit: clarification and removed wrong information.

#32 ceelion22

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 09:43 PM

I'm on the PTR and it's showing that Wild Quiver is producing ~20% of my damage and is sitting top 3 on any boss. Does this mean that Mastery is of a higher value than previously predicted (for MM anyways)?

#33 Whitefyst

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 10:58 PM

I'm on the PTR and it's showing that Wild Quiver is producing ~20% of my damage and is sitting top 3 on any boss. Does this mean that Mastery is of a higher value than previously predicted (for MM anyways)?


The value of Mastery definitely increases in 4.0.6. Blizzard buffed mastery's impact on WQ by 17% from 1.8 WQ per point in mastery (179.28 mastery rating) to 2.1. Thus, each point of mastery is about 17% better. The change buffs my WQ from 24.85% to 28.99%.

Without factoring in the T11 4-set bonus, the increase to mastery should not really change our priorities much yet. They are still the same. After making sure to get hit capped and enough haste to have a 1.5s static SS cast, you will still prefer crit over mastery. One thing to keep an eye out is how close folks in heroic T11 gear may be getting to the CA crit cap. But once the CA crit soft cap is reached, the value of additional crit will be a little diminished.

With factoring in the T11 4-set bonus, our base SS cast is 1.8s. This has several possible choices listed below. This analysis used a quickly thrown together T11 heroic set with the T11 4-set bonus. With no reforging, the stats of the set are:

DPS: 27090 KS glyph, 27312 CS glyph
Hit: 100%
Crit: 36.36%
WQ: 33.48%
Haste: 8% from gear plus 2% from Pathing
Static fps: 4.41
SS cast: 1.292
SS BL: 0.994
SS RF: 0.923s

With no reforging, mastery is the lowest secondary stat, but it was close behind crit and haste:
[TABLE]Haste Rating + 1|1.327
Crit Rating + 1|1.240
Mastery Rating + 1|1.139 [/TABLE]

1) Keep our rotation as is with a static 1.5s SS cast (or a little below - by static I include ISS and raid buff). This requires no haste from gear and Pathing to make it possible. With no haste from those sources, our SS cast time is 1.423s. This really is not the advisable option since we are going to have haste on gear, and this option really devalues the remaining haste after reforging as much to crit and mastery. Furthermore, although we will have the same rotation as before, with less haste, our focus regen will be lower to support the rotation and we will have less autoshots with less WQ procs.

With the gear set above to dump haste, I moved 2 points in Pathing to Term and reforged the haste to crit or mastery. The only other reforge was the one piece I could reforge from mastery to crit, which was a small gain. The result is:

DPS: 27088 (-2) (didn't do CS since intermediate case)
Hit: 100%
Crit: 37.47% (+0.45%)
WQ: 35.4% (1.92%)
Haste: 5.16% from gear plus 0% from Pathing (-5.0% total)
Static fps: 4.2 (-0.21)
SS cast: 1.353 (+0.061)
SS BL: 1.041s (+0.047)
SS RF: 0.966s (+0.043)

This haste/focus regen reduction lost 1 AS, 2 SSs and 7 autoshots, but did gain 4 WQs from the additional mastery. It left us with more haste than we needed for the 1.5s static SS cast, but not enough still for a 1s SS cast during RF, although it is close.

With hand changing the remaining haste into crit up to the CA soft cap and then mastery to simulate using non-haste gear, the results are:

DPS: 27197 (+107) KS glyph, 27375 (+63) CS glyph
Hit: 100%
Crit: 40.6% (+4.24%)
WQ: 35.74% (+2.26%)
Haste: 0.58% from gear plus 0% from Pathing (-9.6% total)
Static fps: 4.02 (-0.39)
SS cast: 1.415 (+0.123)
SS BL: 1.088s (+0.094)
SS RF: 1.010s (+0.078)

This further haste/focus regen reduction lost about 1 AI, 2 AS, 4 SSs and 13 autoshots, but did gain 2 WQs from the additional mastery for both glyph cases. The much higher crit rate though made up for the loss in shots. The other nice aspect here is that at 1.415 SS cast time, when a 5th SS shot is needed in a CS cycle to regen focus, it almost fits in that shot without pushing back the CS. In this case, the CS is only pushed back by only 0.075s under ideal conditions.

2) Add haste to get to the 1.25s static SS cast. This would require 13.84% haste total from gear and Pathing. This is 12.71% from gear with 1/3 Pathing, 11.60% with 2/3 Pathing, and 10.52% with 3/3 Pathing. Doing this has the benefits of saving another GCD per cycle. With the additional special per cycle and increased autoshot frequency, there will be more WQ procs increasing the value of mastery more. This would also result in your SS cast being below the GCD during both RFs and Bloodlust. This does waste a little of the haste from those dynamic effects though it does ensure an additional GCD to be saved during dynamic haste conditions. To accomplish this, I had to reforge enough crit and mastery to gain 3.6% haste. The result is:

DPS: 26975 (-115) KS glyph, 27206 (-106) CS glyph
Hit: 100%
Crit: 34.9% (-1.46%)
WQ: 30.61% (-2.87%)
Haste: 11.96% from gear plus 2% from Pathing (+3.6% total)
Static fps: 4.57 (+0.16)
SS cast: 1.246 (-0.046)
SS BL: 0.958s (-0.036)
SS RF: 0.890s (-0.033)

This haste/focus regen increase gained 3 AS, 1 SSs and 6 autoshots, but did lose 9 WQs from the reduction in mastery. That and the lower crit rate was a huge factor in DPS loss. As can be seen, a lot of the value of the dynamic haste is lost since the SS cast time drops well below 1s during dynamic cast times. Hence, I do not think that currently trying for the 1.25s SS cast time is a good option since we have to currently give up too much crit and mastery to achieve it. Maybe later with more stats on higher ilevel gear it would be a better option since you would get the haste "naturally", but for now it is not a good option. This is the extreme case from case 1).

3) Tune your haste so that you always have better than the GCD cast time on SS during dynamic haste effects. As it worked out, the default case listed above is pretty close to this situation. You only need 9.46% haste from gear and Pathing to achieve this. Thus, with 2/2 Pathing, the default case just needs to lose about 0.7% haste from gear (or 90 haste rating). With reforging one item with 75 haste rating to crit, the result is:

DPS: 27174 (+84) KS glyph, 27400 (+88) CS glyph
Hit: 100%
Crit: 36.78% (+0.42%)
WQ: 33.48% (0%)
Haste: 7.41% from gear plus 0% from Pathing (-0.59% total)
Static fps: 4.38 (-0.03)
SS cast: 1.299 (+0.007)
SS BL: 0.999s (+0.005)
SS RF: 0.928s (+0.005)

This small haste/focus regen reduction lost 1 autoshot, but did more damage due to the extra crit for the KS glyph case. For the CS glyph case, the timing is such 1 AS replaces a SS.

4) Tune your haste so that you have a 1s SS cast during RF so that none of the benefits of the dynamic haste is lost. This requires 1.64% haste from gear. This is similar to case 1 except that you have a little haste from gear. The results are:

DPS: 27254 (+164) KS glyph, 27289 (-23) CS glyph
Hit: 100%
Crit: 40.55% (+4.19%)
WQ: 34.07% (+0.59%)
Haste: 1.75% from gear plus 0% from Pathing (-8.9% total)
Static fps: 4.07 (-0.34)
SS cast: 1.398 (+0.106)
SS BL: 1.076s (+0.082)
SS RF: 0.999s (+0.076)

This haste/focus regen reduction lost 1 AI, 1 AS, 3 SSs, 11 autoshots, and 3 WQs due to the small increase in mastery with the loss in shots. The much higher crit rate though made up for the loss in shots though. The other nice aspect here is that at 1.398 SS cast time, when a 5th SS shot is needed in a CS cycle to regen focus, it fits in that shot without pushing back the CS. Thus, there is no CS delay when casting a 5th SS in a cycle.

5) Tune the haste so that when you need to cast a 5th SS in the CS cycle, it can be cast without delaying your CS under ideal conditions. As already stated, the requirement for this case is very close to that for a 1s SS during RF, case 4).

Conclusion:

To start, the heroic T11 gear favors the CS glyph a little over the KS glyph.

How does the 0.2s reduction in SS base cast time impact an MM hunter. To be honest, it really does not change much for us at all beyond requiring less haste on gear. With all the scenarios I looked at with heroic T11 gear and constant glyph, the max change was 164 DPS or about 0.6%. It does not really change our rotation since its not worth getting to a static 1.25s SS cast time since we have to give up too much crit and mastery to achieve it and since it reduces the value of dynamic haste effects. It is still true that our haste floor is a 1.5s SS cast (which can be exceeded with 0% haste from gear and Pathing with the 4-set bonus) and that the haste soft ceiling is that that to get to about a 1s SS cast during RF. The main difference is that the optimal haste region has been shrunk from a 7.5% spread to about a 1.75% haste spread.

For the KS glyph case, it appears that it is optimal to operate at about 1.75% (or a little more) haste from gear and Pathing so that you are still doing your current 1.5s SS cast rotation but with some dead time in it for inefficiencies. It also provides plenty of room to switch out an AS for an SS, on a cycle where you need to regen focus, without delaying your SS cast. Finally it results in a 1s SS cast during RFs.

For the CS glyph case, it seems optimal to have enough haste for a 1s SS cast during BL (about 7.41% from gear and Pathing).

Note that this analysis is not complete since it does not include the impacts of possibly casting non-MMM proc AIs in the rotation.

#34 Shadowzuka

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 02:40 PM

Marksmanship
Aimed Shot! (Master Marksman) now deals 203% ranged weapon damage, up from 103%. Both Aimed Shot and Aimed Shot! (Master Marksman) now scale from 72.4% of Ranged AP, up from 48%.
Arcane Shot now scales from 4.83% of Ranged AP, up from 4.2%
Chimera Shot now scales from 73.2% of Ranged AP, up from 48.8%


Source: MMO-Champion - Patch 4.0.6 - PTR Build 13529

Looks like they finally fixed the MM proc for Aimed Shot and both Chimera and Aimed got huge love now that they scale off of 70ish% RAP.

My question is that would be it theoretically be possible AND viable to skip Arcane Shot now and get enough haste to pull a wotlk like "rotation" where it's Chimera, aimed (hardcasting if need be) and steadies and only use arcane when moving, given how big of a damage boost Aimed got, or would the loss of reseting auto-shots deter us from it?

#35 Feanoro

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 03:53 PM

One major point about those changes is that MM damage will become very spiky, based around CS and AiS. I could have sworn I read that MMM was considered one of the "knobs" GC referred to for adjusting specs, so it's a bit surprising that they simply buff damage rather than adjust MMM proc chance. It seems even more odd when you consider the tweaking of mastery's value for MM via increased proc chance. I'll admit some personal preference there as well, since procs are a bit more fun than simple bigger numbers.

With only some crude napkin math though, it still seems like we'd be using AS due to it being buffed, as well as more potential shots overall because of the lower cost, and of course it being instant.

Hey guys, I heard that Blizzard puts out these things called "patches" that contain "content"

Yeah but it hasn't happened since Ulduar.


#36 Whitefyst

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 08:11 PM

My question is that would be it theoretically be possible AND viable to skip Arcane Shot now and get enough haste to pull a wotlk like "rotation" where it's Chimera, aimed (hardcasting if need be) and steadies and only use arcane when moving, given how big of a damage boost Aimed got, or would the loss of reseting auto-shots deter us from it?


I am working on an analysis of that but do not have it done yet do to higher priority items and the fact that the PTR is changing so much and not knowing whether the cast AI still stops autoshot. Can anyone on the PTR check this please.

I will try to have my shot spreadsheet updated for it and conclusions prior to 4.0.6 release.

I have only modeled the 1.5s SS cast time rotation during the CA phase. When that was done with the shot numbers from a little less than a week ago, the AI rotation was by far superior during the CA phase since with the 60% extra crit rate and PS crit bonus, its average damage was 3x that of both AS and SS. With the relatigve numbers, I would expect the AI cast rotation to be superior during the CA phase for the faster SS cast time cases as well.

I haven't done the analysis for the Standard phase, which is usually performed with no dynamic haste effects. But from the relative shot damage from about a week ago, the average AI damage was less than 2x the AS damage at the cost of more focus and less chance for Sic'Em procs. Hence, it may not be better, although it may be if only because the AI cast time is less than the 2 GCDs for 2 AS which may reduce the CS cast delay sufficiently on cycles that require a 5th SS to regen focus to be a DPS gain. Will have to wait and see the result of the shot analysis with the final shot numbers.

#37 Cinderglow

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 01:22 PM

On the PTR Aimed shot is delaying auto shots, not resetting the swing timer.
Evoke the fire within.

#38 Schniepel

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 02:06 PM

On the PTR Aimed shot is delaying auto shots, not resetting the swing timer.

So time to dust of your trusty TBC "!Auto Shot, Steady Shot," castsequence then? Hard to believe they really want us to go back there again. Then again it might be intended seeing that the new 2.4 sec casttime would fit all ranged weapons, and condsidering that hidden 0.5 sec AutoShot casttime will be probably gone.

#39 Deepfriedegg

Deepfriedegg

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 02:07 PM

On the PTR Aimed shot is delaying auto shots, not resetting the swing timer.


That is definitely good news and a factor that may favor AiS over AS during standard phases. This "only" means delay of approx 1.8 sec as opposed to 1.8 + up to 2 seconds.

#40 Cinderglow

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 02:14 PM

On the PTR Aimed shot is delaying auto shots, not resetting the swing timer.


Upon further testing, I have concluded that the previous statement is actually incorrect. Naked with no proc trinkets on, it looks like Aimed Shot DOES reset the auto swing. Also, something to note, is that as MM with 0/3 pathing, naked, My Aimed Shot has a based cast speed of 2.9 instead of the 2.4 we were expecting
Evoke the fire within.




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