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Affliction in Cataclysm (4.3 Release)


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#41 Xenks

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 09:24 PM

Playing affliction with the succubus, I've noticed it has a nasty habit of going OOM in only a few minutes. Once it goes OOM, it does no damage. I've learned to pay attention to its mana and instasummon a new one when it does OOM, but my gut feeling is that as a fire and forget pet, unless it's regaining mana from things I just don't receive the benefit of in my raid, it's going to OOM and eventually lose to virtually any other pet. As many of my fights are running 10 minutes plus, it will eventually oom, even if I use every soulburn on summoning a new one.

Am I doing something wrong? Nobody else seems to be noting a problem with this.

#42 Zakalwe

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 11:35 PM

( CoA numbers )

Now, this is very interesting. going from 11.99% haste to 12.50% haste did not change the total damage of the spell hardly at all. But, in both cases there was a jump when getting the 14th tick: 7.47% in the first trial, 9.15% in the second.

Bane of Agony is about 10% of an affliction warlock's damage so this "jump" due to the threshold could conceivably be non-negligible (200 - 250 DPS depending on gear level). I tried using SimC to test around the thresholds, but, I was not able to observe any "jump" in DPS just above or below a haste threshold for BoA. I don't know if the authors of SimC have figured this mechanic out and are doing it the same as in-game or not.

You're forgetting to divide by number of ticks. A dot's total damage always goes up when it gains a tick, the damage *per tick* is what stays constant. If you divide your total numbers by the number of ticks you'll see that that's true for CoA as well. There's no "jump" in CoA's DPS at any haste threshold, just like there isn't a "jump" in UA's DPS at any threshold.

#43 revulva

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 01:04 AM

You're forgetting to divide by number of ticks. A dot's total damage always goes up when it gains a tick, the damage *per tick* is what stays constant. If you divide your total numbers by the number of ticks you'll see that that's true for CoA as well. There's no "jump" in CoA's DPS at any haste threshold, just like there isn't a "jump" in UA's DPS at any threshold.


That's right, been doing too many calculations today. Updated my post.
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#44 Moox

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 07:27 AM

Jmickey is right, Lightweave Embroidery gives 580 Intellect.
While the tooltip reads "spell power", you can easily verify ingame it indeed gives Intellect. This is the buff you gain: Lightweave.

#45 Innulock

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:02 PM

I would like to make a suggestion about openings. In most cases I read that most people are using soulburn to got istantly ISF. What I'm doing is simply ask the tank to countdown from 3 before boss pull, wich allows me to precast SF and save one more soulburn usage for rest of the fight. In raid situation that precast can be join together with prepot.


Most people Soulburn (buff lasts 15 seconds) and then get the shard back with Soul Harvest (<3 seconds channel for 1 shard) before the tank pulls. This way you still have 3 shards for the fight, but you can move on the pull and you get the haste buff up faster.

#46 Chaley

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 06:59 PM

With the changes that were posted regarding Soul Fire by Zarhym on the official forums, what kind of talent spec should we be looking at? I'm figuring that those 2 extra points would just move over to demonology or soulburn: soc or other utility talents in affliction. Also I was wondering what exactly the impact on dps would be when we no longer have this 15% haste as affliction warlocks.

#47 Blotorch

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 11:09 PM

With the changes that were posted regarding Soul Fire by Zarhym on the official forums, what kind of talent spec should we be looking at? I'm figuring that those 2 extra points would just move over to demonology or soulburn: soc or other utility talents in affliction. Also I was wondering what exactly the impact on dps would be when we no longer have this 15% haste as affliction warlocks.


Swtich to Aff or Affdrain + 2 optionals and hope for the best?

I'm guessing the numbers would shake out pretty poorly and hopefully we get some compensation at some point. Very much a "watch this space" kind of deal at the moment...

#48 Zurriel

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:18 AM

Swtich to Aff or Affdrain + 2 optionals and hope for the best?
I'm guessing the numbers would shake out pretty poorly and hopefully we get some compensation at some point. Very much a "watch this space" kind of deal at the moment...


Not really. Affliction is still on top of simulations; Zakalwe posted them this morning, I believe:
http://elitistjerks...._a/#post1811449

Either way, points in Dark Arts are wasted if you are using the succubus + Lash of Pain glyph, and nothing (that I know of) suggests the Felhunter will be doing more damage than this combination.
If you would like something to be thankful for, this means we will essentially will not/will not greatly benefit from using Soulburn + Soul Fire, meaning there should be serious conversation over whether using Soulburn + instant Felhunter + Demon Soul is now more appealing. In this case, Dark Arts may be worth it, but simulation data would be nice to see.
Regardless, this is the spec I plan on running:

Edit: By which I mean I'm bad at paying attention and mean this, appologies:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Essentially putting the two extra points into 2/2 instead of 1/2 Pandemic, and taking CoE. The former is a possible (if unlikely) dps increase, while the later is for utility in 10 man raids, as summoned adds are often susceptible to slows (Maloriak, Omnitron slimes, etc.). The second point in Pandemic may be better spent in Dark Arts, if you switch pets below 25%.

On a completely different subject, Soul Swap is definitely a DPS increase on fights with multiple bosses or a couple adds, but has there been any discussion on how soul swap carries over CoA? I would imagine that every time SS is used to apply CoA from one mob to another, the game interprets this as a fresh CoA, but I've never seen someone confirm this. As a result, while I'm fairly certain that using SS to apply fresh dots onto a secondary target as its dots begin to fall off is the most effective method, I don't have any math to prove that this is better than manually applying corruption and UA to the secondary target after the initial SS dots fade, and leaving CoA so it is allowed to tick for its full duration (allowing the larger, final ticks to happen).

#49 chiyeuk

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:47 AM

Jmickey is right, Lightweave Embroidery gives 580 Intellect.
While the tooltip reads "spell power", you can easily verify ingame it indeed gives Intellect. This is the buff you gain: Lightweave.


Oh, wow I did not know that. But maybe this should be mentioned in the OP for those who's looking for Cataclysm profession changes? Just like how the tinker change is mentioned for Engineering. I would assume non-tailors especially wouldn't know about it.

#50 Blotorch

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:53 AM

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Essentially putting the two extra points into 2/2 instead of 1/2 Pandemic, and taking CoE. The former is a possible (if unlikely) dps increase, while the later is for utility in 10 man raids, as summoned adds are often susceptible to slows (Maloriak, Omnitron slimes, etc.). The second point in Pandemic may be better spent in Dark Arts, if you switch pets below 25%.

Why take emberstorm at all?

Surely your last shard should be saved for an execute range Demon Soul summon of fel hunter, shifting points out of Emberstorm and CoEx and filling out Dark art for a net DPS gain..? You'd want to time it so your last shard it comsumed on your final demon soul of the encounter, thus getting most uptime of Lash of Pain Glyph.

20% buff to your highest DPS phase? Could be meaningful enough to act on? Not sure but it would be interesting to explore.

Also thanks to Zak for the update... Really interesting that ISF loss seems rather meaningless in the scheme of things. Can this be true :confused:

#51 Linde

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:54 AM

Not really. Affliction is still on top of simulations; Zakalwe posted them this morning, I believe:
http://elitistjerks...._a/#post1811449

Either way, points in Dark Arts are wasted if you are using the succubus + Lash of Pain glyph, and nothing (that I know of) suggests the Felhunter will be doing more damage than this combination.
If you would like something to be thankful for, this means we will essentially will not/will not greatly benefit from using Soulburn + Soul Fire, meaning there should be serious conversation over whether using Soulburn + instant Felhunter + Demon Soul is now more appealing. In this case, Dark Arts may be worth it, but simulation data would be nice to see.
Regardless, this is the spec I plan on running:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Essentially putting the two extra points into 2/2 instead of 1/2 Pandemic, and taking CoE. The former is a possible (if unlikely) dps increase, while the later is for utility in 10 man raids, as summoned adds are often susceptible to slows (Maloriak, Omnitron slimes, etc.). The second point in Pandemic may be better spent in Dark Arts, if you switch pets below 25%.


Hey hey, just a quick question about the spec you are going to change to in 4.0.6.

What's with the 2 points in Emberstorm? It doesn't seem like we will be using soulfire nor incinerate in our rotations, so wouldn't those points better be invested in something like Fel Synergy for a little pethealing? Or perhaps Dark Arts 2/3 for the <25% phase.

Or is the talent being changed somewhat to benefit us? Haven't read anything about it so far.

Edit: Apologies, didn't notice the above poster asked the same thing.

#52 Kallikrates47

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 01:00 PM

Also thanks to Zak for the update... Really interesting that ISF loss seems rather meaningless in the scheme of things. Can this be true :confused:


Actually the numbers posted in the OP of Zak's topic are still 4.03a, it's the first reply in the thread that has 4.0.6 numbers and Demo has gone from comfortably bottom to top >_<

#53 Blotorch

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 08:36 PM

Actually the numbers posted in the OP of Zak's topic are still 4.03a, it's the first reply in the thread that has 4.0.6 numbers and Demo has gone from comfortably bottom to top >_<


1st and 2nd posts show the difference between .3 and .6.

Roughly a 1200 DPS loss between the two models. Sounds about right. A nerf is a nerf I guess, I do like how every spec is lined up nicely and it's basically a decision on skill and preference.

#54 Wrekhan

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 11:27 PM

Not really. Affliction is still on top of simulations; Zakalwe posted them this morning, I believe:
http://elitistjerks...._a/#post1811449

Either way, points in Dark Arts are wasted if you are using the succubus + Lash of Pain glyph, and nothing (that I know of) suggests the Felhunter will be doing more damage than this combination.
If you would like something to be thankful for, this means we will essentially will not/will not greatly benefit from using Soulburn + Soul Fire, meaning there should be serious conversation over whether using Soulburn + instant Felhunter + Demon Soul is now more appealing. In this case, Dark Arts may be worth it, but simulation data would be nice to see.
Regardless, this is the spec I plan on running:

Edit: By which I mean I'm bad at paying attention and mean this, appologies:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Essentially putting the two extra points into 2/2 instead of 1/2 Pandemic, and taking CoE. The former is a possible (if unlikely) dps increase, while the later is for utility in 10 man raids, as summoned adds are often susceptible to slows (Maloriak, Omnitron slimes, etc.). The second point in Pandemic may be better spent in Dark Arts, if you switch pets below 25%.

On a completely different subject, Soul Swap is definitely a DPS increase on fights with multiple bosses or a couple adds, but has there been any discussion on how soul swap carries over CoA? I would imagine that every time SS is used to apply CoA from one mob to another, the game interprets this as a fresh CoA, but I've never seen someone confirm this. As a result, while I'm fairly certain that using SS to apply fresh dots onto a secondary target as its dots begin to fall off is the most effective method, I don't have any math to prove that this is better than manually applying corruption and UA to the secondary target after the initial SS dots fade, and leaving CoA so it is allowed to tick for its full duration (allowing the larger, final ticks to happen).



Taking 2 points in emberstorm would be a dps loss as we won't be casting Soul Fire, unless its to burn a soul shard. Using the talents for Fel Hunter seems to be the most logical to go and at 26% swapping the Succy for Fel Hunter and popping Demon Soul to get the extra dot damage from Drain Soul during Execute since Blood Lust/Heroism/Timewarp are normally used for the execute phase as several classes have execute ranges anywhere from 35% to 25%. So 20% bonus damage when you are doing the most damage seems to be the most logical way to make use of the change.

Spec that I would use personally Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

#55 Muenze

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 09:23 AM

I´m sorry to interupt your discussion, but I would like to know if Drain Soul profit from Haste in having more ticks?
Is there any simulation or calculation that shows me if I should use Drain Soul at <25% or with massive haste from heroism and other buffs i should switch back to SB?
The Excel Sheets show at how much haste I get extra ticks from my dots, but it doesn't show how haste work with drain soul.

Thanks for any answers

#56 Guest_7ang_*

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 09:35 AM

Drain Soul profits from haste. Dont' know the numbers for an Excel sheet, but i've already killed that guy in the cauldron in heroic deadmines while under the effect of his massive dropped hastefood. Amazing DPS :) .

#57 Chardos

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 10:53 PM

Drain Soul profits from haste. Dont' know the numbers for an Excel sheet, but i've already killed that guy in the cauldron in heroic deadmines while under the effect of his massive dropped hastefood. Amazing DPS :) .


[TABLE]Extra Ticks|Total Ticks|Haste %| Haste Rating
1|4|16,67|2134,2835
2|5|50|6402,8505
3|6|83,33|10671,4175
[/TABLE]

There ya go

#58 Fizzlebane

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 07:31 PM

I have a quick question regarding Macro use.

I'm very guilty of being a "button masher". I get away with it on my channeled spells by using a macro such as:

/cast [nochanneling: Drain Life] Drain Life

(Not sure if this is exactly right context but you get the idea)

I'm just wondering if I'm nerfing myself by using a macro like this. Will this prevent me from using Blizzard's built in anti-latency system?

#59 zinnin

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 05:47 AM

I have a quick question regarding Macro use.

I'm very guilty of being a "button masher". I get away with it on my channeled spells by using a macro such as:

/cast [nochanneling: Drain Life] Drain Life

(Not sure if this is exactly right context but you get the idea)

I'm just wondering if I'm nerfing myself by using a macro like this. Will this prevent me from using Blizzard's built in anti-latency system?


This is actually what I use as well considering that you cant use blizzards anti-latency system on channeled spells anyways. I have noticed a pretty sizable dps drop if I go from my normal 25ms to even 100-200, as as long as your latency is low enough it isn't too bad.

#60 Zakalwe

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Posted 15 January 2011 - 06:56 AM

There's no queue for channeled spells in the same way as for cast-time spells, but you can recast the channeled spells while there's less than <your lag> left of the channel. So if you have significant amounts of lag you're definitely nerfing your DPS by using a nochanneling macro.




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