Jump to content


Photo

DPS Warrior BiS Discussion


  • Please log in to reply
150 replies to this topic

#41 Guest_8ina8ik_*

Guest_8ina8ik_*
  • Guests

Posted 23 January 2011 - 02:46 PM

Why using +35 mastery and minor Movement Speed on boots when there is +50 mastery?

#42 Hardbunny

Hardbunny

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 23 January 2011 - 03:21 PM

Why using +35 mastery and minor Movement Speed on boots when there is +50 mastery?

The argument for that would be the extra mobility. Though I would argue the fact that we have charge and intercept and heroic leap, the movement speed is a dps loss. But then again for the few times you stand in fire and have to get out fast. It can save your life.

#43 Glory

Glory

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 93 posts

Posted 23 January 2011 - 10:08 PM

you were never fighting in a boss fight where the boss is not static at all? If the boss has to be kitet for some minor distances charge/intercept does nothing for you. And most times the boss does not move at 20% speed he moves at 0% and then if he thinks now he can not hit anymore he starts walking at over 100% speed to the tank. (Elemental Monstrosity, relative little hitbox P2 always drawn if you need to change your debuff). Charge is nice but not always usable. This increase in movement speed is worth much more than 15 mastery. And this was proven years ago, where the stat difference was much more noticable.

#44 Mushin63

Mushin63

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 24 January 2011 - 03:40 AM

There are times you cannot use intercept or heroic leap yet have to move, the run speed enchant on boots has been shown to be a dps increase over any other.

#45 Feldane

Feldane

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 24 January 2011 - 07:24 AM

I was wondering if anyone thought that single minded fury is viable. I understand the shear stats of 2-handers plus high top end damage make a convincing argument against single minded fury vs. Titans grip. But with the buff coming to slam, and single minded fury hitting with both weapon when you slam,and add 15% damage over all, do you think they would be equal at least?
The reason I ask is because there is a pretty respectable set of fist weapons Agony and Torment - Item Set - World of Warcraft . The set bonus is quite nice.

Also if it is viable wouldn't License to Slay - Item - World of Warcraft be better for single mind fury, because you have less raw stats on your one-handers, there for less hit ?

#46 kyshana

kyshana

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 24 January 2011 - 02:29 PM

Well I'm not an elitist and I would very much like to go for SMF. (I know this is the BiS thread, sorry)

From what I've been told the play style is a lot less pain especially when interrupting? Overall smoother rage income than TG?

Also is the priority in SMF - Slam > BT > RB > CB > HS, since in SMF you get the Enrage buff alot more than TG with both Slam and RB hitting with both weapons? If someone is really into SMF and have great knownledge about it, it would be awesome to have a response.
The reason for all the "?" is that I don't have any testing to back it up. As mentioned above SMF would benefit from patch 4.0.6 I believe.

#47 landsoul

landsoul

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,025 posts

Posted 24 January 2011 - 11:25 PM

I'm pretty sure that with the new patch notes (20% SMF) that TG and SMF are extremely extremely close. SMF might nudge ahead with higher gear, thanks to STR/Mastery scaling.
>--Coaching Site--< Private coaching / Warrior Resource
>--Stream--< Tues, Wed, 7 Eastern.

#48 Kawano

Kawano

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:24 AM

I'm pretty sure that with the new patch notes (20% SMF) that TG and SMF are extremely extremely close. SMF might nudge ahead with higher gear, thanks to STR/Mastery scaling.


Are you taking into account the lack of ilvl 372 1h swords? The only 1h str dps weapon from hard modes is .

Wouldn't two vs lava spine put SMF behind TG once again at higher gear level?

#49 Loarn

Loarn

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:20 AM

Are you taking into account the lack of ilvl 372 1h swords? The only 1h str dps weapon from hard modes is [Lava Spine].

Wouldn't two [Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood] vs lava spine put SMF behind TG once again at higher gear level?


There is currently one more Sword available, of the Earthshaker drops from Al'Akir.

#50 calli

calli

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 27 January 2011 - 11:58 AM

Reforging the parry to Hit, with the mastery buff, I'd suspect this would be usefull aswell.

#51 hellord

hellord

    Absolute Arms

  • Members
  • 370 posts

Posted 28 January 2011 - 06:54 PM

I'd get rid of the yellow gems in the legs. The socket bonus of 20 haste is not worth it, even considering haste .4 and crit .67 of the strength value which are probably high estimates aswell at least for this tier.
ArP Whore

#52 Popoa

Popoa

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 29 January 2011 - 02:02 AM

Things I'm not sure of:

  • Is there a better way to reforge and optimize expertise? I'd like to get as close to possible to a perfect 26 but currently .74 over the cap.


I managed to get the expertise closer to 26 by:
  • Reforge Expertise to Hit Rating.
  • Reforge Mastery to Expertise.
  • Reforge Mastery to Expertise.
  • Reforge the Expertise on to Hit Rating.

The end result is the following stat changes:
  • Hit Chance: 21.04% to 22.25%
  • Crit Chance: 20.52% to 19.63%
  • Mastery: 11.61 to 11.77 (no effective change)

What are your thoughts on this? For the High Hit build it merely adds a percentage of hit at the cost of a percentage of crit. I don't have a sim to crunch the numbers at this time, if someone would be gracious enough to run this model through then we might have a contender.

That said, however, with the current expectations of a low hit/high crit build then that percentage may be better spent on the crit than the hit. With that, one could always just reforge HoR to crit as opposed to hit rating. Doing so would actually bring the percentages to the exact whole values that we see on the BiS slot list with a minor change to mastery and crit. Not enough to make a difference, though.

From what I can see, the gloves are indeed the best offset choice that we have.

#53 Symphonia

Symphonia

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 73 posts

Posted 29 January 2011 - 05:40 AM

Sorry this hasn't been updated in a while, been busy with work and school. Power and net have also been out the past few days.

Anyhow, I updated a few pieces of gear and reforging. I also added a SMF BiS list.

To do list:
-Mess around with SimCraft to see the effect of hit vs other secondary stats on DPS to determine whether or not a hit setup is even viable.
-Find out if it's worth going for the 3 expertise as an orc vs losing the benefit of having a slower MH weapon.
-More optimal reforging.
-How does mastery work for fury warriors? I know for most classes you get a benefit from every 1.00. But if your mastery provides a 2% bonus, you get a benefit from every 0.50. At what increments do you get a benefit for fury? I'm not sure since it's such an odd number from our increase. I'd love to check this myself but I have many other things to do and I need to go to bed. An answer next time I check this forum would make things a lot easier.

#54 Glory

Glory

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 93 posts

Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:07 PM

As Mastery is concerned its a Tooltip rounding error, its an integer % number where a floating number should be.

My Healing Shaman gains 7% from mastery in the tooltip with odd 2.8 mastery points, which is exactly the point for 7% (was a coincidence when i checked shamy for it).
By just losing 47mastery rating i lose 1% in display but i am still over the less odd number of 2.5 mastery points.
If i go Elemental with the same 2.8 mastery i should gain 5.6% Elemental overload, but displayed is a 5% gain.
Also it was confirmed by prot warriors/paladins that each point of mastery rating increases their block chance (which is displayed in decimals).
It also have been proven by Survival Hunters (cant post a source, sorry).

So for various speccs/classes it is confirmed that mastery is like expertise an integer display for an in fact floating number.
I think the Healing Shaman "prove" is nice because its not half points that change the display but .4 incrementals.

#55 Cobyisblue

Cobyisblue

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:11 AM

I've been playing around with a setup for Orcs using 2x Shalug'Doom and this is what I've devised so far.
chardev 8

In comparison to Symphonia's current low-hit BiS list:
+1.53 Crit (taking note of the other profile being Worgen)
-0.21 Mastery
+.80 Haste

I'm not too sure these changes would make 2x Shalug'Doom comparable to 2x Ashkandi, but maybe 1.53 crit is worth it.

Things to take note of:
-This is assuming that low hit is optimal and that you want as close to 8% as possible. I'm not sure what hit % is recommended for low hit, but this will put you at exactly (according to Chardev) 8% hit.
-I'm also assuming that the heroic BoE Treads of Savage Beatings will be implemented at some point. If not, additional reforging or reworking will be necessary when using Massacre Treads
-I opted to not reforge the hit on the Cloudburst Ring of the Earthshaker, which put me at exactly 8% hit.

#56 iddqd84

iddqd84

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:14 AM

What Cobyisblue said, as i play also an orc warrior i wondered whether those Shalug'Dooms (if wearing two) are better than the reclaimed Ashkandis, counting the +3 Expertise or does the slower weapon speed of the latter put it ahead?

#57 Volgon

Volgon

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 03 February 2011 - 03:38 PM

I don't believe a double Shalug'doom setup for orcs will ever be as effective as a double Ashkandi setup for heroic gear. Blizz will likely never implement the heroic BoE drops found on wowhead (they haven't done it for the 5 mans either) and so the only available 372 boots would be Massacre Treads. You can't reforge away enough expertise to bring you to 26 (the lowest I can get is 29/29) meaning some exp is simply lost. It would be more effective to run Ashkandi x2 where you can cap expertise just from gear even if you were an orc.

#58 Nate1492

Nate1492

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 04 February 2011 - 06:32 PM

I believe dodged offhand swings still generate rage.

Stick the Shalug'doom in your main and the Ashkandi in your off. That would likely be Orc BIS.

Akirus the Worm-Breaker with Ashkandi offhand would likely be Dwarf BIS.

Then just aim for 26/23 and viola.

#59 Volgon

Volgon

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 25 posts

Posted 04 February 2011 - 09:54 PM

You could put Shalug'doom in your MH, yes. But then you are putting a slower weapon in your OH. Shalug/Ashkandi generates (slightly) less rage than Ash/Shalug. You are also putting a weapon with a smaller damage range in your MH resulting in smaller Slams and less Raging Blow damage overall. Not to mention your OH having less expertise than your MH. A Raging Blow OH crit in a raid environment with the 4.0.6 buffs shouldn't simply be dismissed. I'm not convinced that Shalug'doom is the way to go for orcs.

#60 Nate1492

Nate1492

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 05 February 2011 - 03:07 PM

The slower OH doesn't have an effect, the rage gen is normalized based on weapon speed.

Weapon damage, in terms of RB would have no effect outside the dodged RB, if that is even possible. I think that would need to be tested to confirm if it can even be dodged, but let's just assume it can.

If the stat gains are as high as mentioned above...

+1.53 Crit (taking note of the other profile being Worgen)
-0.21 Mastery
+.80 Haste

Or something similar, you woul EASILY match the damage lost by the dodged offhand white swings and the dodged RB offhand swings.

It might just have to come down to a spreadsheet though, because we are in the realm of guessing. I just know that at the end of WOTLK, it was worth the 26/23 trade-off because the stats gained by dropping the 24 expertise into strength made it worth it. Obviously we aren't dropping Strength for Expertise now, but 3 expertise is much more costly now than it was in WOTLK.

You basically save 90 expertise. The trade-off is simply the difference between weapon damage, dodged offhand white damage, and dodged offhand RB/WW damage.

90 crit or hit versus the above. My feeling is that the 90 crit/hit would easily beat it. Take into account Orcs and it's 150 crit/hit.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users