Jump to content


Photo

[Elemental] BiS gear and set-up discussion (4.0 and onward)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
39 replies to this topic

#21 Moshne

Moshne

    Soda Popinski

  •  Patrons
  • 2,656 posts

Posted 08 March 2011 - 09:33 PM

Why is spirit higher than hit?


What Jessamy said explains slight differences due to modeling. I don't remember exactly when the program was updated, but it was generating incorrect hit values, but has since been corrected. It may have been fixed before that report, I don't recall.

The difference between a .01 change in hit/spirit is insignificant to the point of not worth mentioning, but it was causing issues when only modeling positive deltas and thus was remedied.

- 13/13 HM -25m - W/Th/Sun 8-12 CST LF Mistweaver
www.somethingwickedguild.com


#22 menastra

menastra

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 09 March 2011 - 04:44 PM

Do the stats on the chardev bis setup include buffs such as Flametounge and our totems?

(Sorry new to the whole simulcraft thing)

#23 thordinrokbeard

thordinrokbeard

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 09 March 2011 - 08:21 PM

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but simcraft is giving it's built in bis list 27147 dps. Chardev is chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta and this was done with simc-406-13.

Edit: DPS edited because I forgot to change the fight length.

#24 Jessamy

Jessamy

    Struck by Diax's Rake

  • Moderators
  • 4,801 posts

Posted 10 March 2011 - 02:43 AM

That profile is for a Troll shaman. When I change the race to Tauren, the dps drops. Using simc-406-13, I get:

26819.3 (the built-in profile with race changed)

26961.9 (the current listed BiS profile)


This illustrates an important point. The BiS list in the OP may not be the BiS list for your character. It assumes a race with no racial dps bonus, and it assumes alchemy and enchanting professions. The Goblin and Troll haste effects may change the relative worth of your stats, and the Draenei hit bonus will affect how you reach the cap. Hopefully despite its flaws, this thread helps increase understanding of class mechanics and how to use the simulation tools.

#25 Orcheon

Orcheon

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 23 posts

Posted 07 April 2011 - 05:26 PM

That profile is for a Troll shaman. When I change the race to Tauren, the dps drops. Using simc-406-13, I get:

26819.3 (the built-in profile with race changed)

26961.9 (the current listed BiS profile)


This illustrates an important point. The BiS list in the OP may not be the BiS list for your character. It assumes a race with no racial dps bonus, and it assumes alchemy and enchanting professions. The Goblin and Troll haste effects may change the relative worth of your stats, and the Draenei hit bonus will affect how you reach the cap. Hopefully despite its flaws, this thread helps increase understanding of class mechanics and how to use the simulation tools.


I believe the BIS set for a Draenei uses the exact same items, with some reforging.

chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm 27196

#26 masanbol

masanbol

    Space Goats Coast to Coast

  •  Patrons
  • 659 posts

Posted 01 August 2011 - 01:50 AM

Here's a BiS (non-Dragonwrath) setup that we're working with to generate stat weights. It operates under the assumptions that you can only use one Exalted rep ring (which was the case on PTR), and that the rep belt is not upgradable.

chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm

I'll do a Dragonwrath one as well once simc fixes their version of the staff, it still has old stats and I'm not sure about how it's modelling the proc.

#27 Drovix

Drovix

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:11 PM

Here's a BiS (non-Dragonwrath) setup that we're working with to generate stat weights. It operates under the assumptions that you can only use one Exalted rep ring (which was the case on PTR), and that the rep belt is not upgradable.

chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm

I'll do a Dragonwrath one as well once simc fixes their version of the staff, it still has old stats and I'm not sure about how it's modelling the proc.


Do you have an estimated EP value for DMC:V and Necromantic Focus? Infrequently I'll switch to Mirror for aoe-heavy fights if our good healers are afk for the night, and I've been testing which trinket to drop but normally outside circumstances skew the results.

Edit: Answered my own question: TotemSpot • View topic - [4.2] Elemental trinkets DEP comparison spreadsheet

Heart of Ignacious (h) 1493
Fiery Quintessence 1592
Theralion's Mirror (h) 1612
Darkmoon Card: Volcano 1664
Necromantic Focus 1669
Fiery Quintessence (h) 1798
Necromantic Focus (h) 1894

Now keep in mind these are values from early July, so take them with a grain of salt now.

#28 masanbol

masanbol

    Space Goats Coast to Coast

  •  Patrons
  • 659 posts

Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:32 PM

Do you have an estimated EP value for DMC:V and Necromantic Focus? Infrequently I'll switch to Mirror for aoe-heavy fights if our good healers are afk for the night, and I've been testing which trinket to drop but normally outside circumstances skew the results.

Edit: Answered my own question: TotemSpot • View topic - [4.2] Elemental trinkets DEP comparison spreadsheet

Heart of Ignacious (h) 1493
Fiery Quintessence 1592
Theralion's Mirror (h) 1612
Darkmoon Card: Volcano 1664
Necromantic Focus 1669
Fiery Quintessence (h) 1798
Necromantic Focus (h) 1894

Now keep in mind these are values from early July, so take them with a grain of salt now.


There is no heroic version of FQ currently in-game, so heroic Necromantic Focus + DMC:V are BiS according to current modeling. Don't underestimate FQ's int on-use, since it can be used with other int procs/buffs on a Fire Elemental to greatly increase damage beyond what sims will model.

#29 Far_sight

Far_sight

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 10 August 2011 - 02:24 PM

Ok here is some sim results: 38481

And BiS used are : chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm

#30 masanbol

masanbol

    Space Goats Coast to Coast

  •  Patrons
  • 659 posts

Posted 10 August 2011 - 03:05 PM

Ok here is some sim results: 38481

And BiS used are : chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm


There is no heroic version of Firemend Cinch available in-game. Also, I would question VPLC over Darkmoon card, especially for the reason that simcraft doesn't model its interaction with Fire Elemental and 2pc very well (and thus undervalues it).

#31 Far_sight

Far_sight

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 10 August 2011 - 09:39 PM

strange but here are changes ...

DPS : 38921

BiS used : chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm

#32 Jessamy

Jessamy

    Struck by Diax's Rake

  • Moderators
  • 4,801 posts

Posted 10 August 2011 - 10:44 PM

I checked your character profile and the simulation yielded 35220 dps, significantly lower than your reported finding. I ran a second simulation with scaling factors turned off and got similar results, in line with the development team's character build:

Simulationcraft Results


Did you check the first post in the thread for the recommended settings?

#33 Far_sight

Far_sight

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:52 PM

Under the Global tab, leave all settings at the default, except
Iterations = 10000
Length = 500
Vary Length = 20%
Leave all settings at the default in the Buffs and Debuffs tabs.
In the Scaling tab, if you want stat weights make sure to check the appropriate boxes.
Remember to include talents and glyphs in your chardev link, or your dps will be very low. 2/2 Ancestral Swiftness and Glyph of Unleashed Lightning are required for submissions, and Glyph of Fire Elemental Totem is not allowed.

This one and race tauren and enchanting and alchemy... Is there anything else?

sim used 420-5

ok simed again
min = 32355
avg = 35213
max = 38133

#34 ohcrocsle

ohcrocsle

    Hvitserk Hook (aka Stinky)

  • Guild Members
  • 929 posts

Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:53 PM

edit: Used a profile that cannot be worn on live.

#35 Jessamy

Jessamy

    Struck by Diax's Rake

  • Moderators
  • 4,801 posts

Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:12 PM

min = 32355
avg = 35213
max = 38133

The average simulated dps is the correct number, and does fall within the expected range from the simulations I ran.

#36 Gloinn12

Gloinn12

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:12 PM

This profile is simulating at ~35500 dps.

chardev 8 - WoW Cataclysm


The heroic version of those rings don't exist...not to mention brimstone rings are unique eqiup

#37 Moshne

Moshne

    Soda Popinski

  •  Patrons
  • 2,656 posts

Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:35 PM

The rep rings start as "Heroic" level, there is no normal version. Whether they can both be equipped is still up in the air though I believe.

- 13/13 HM -25m - W/Th/Sun 8-12 CST LF Mistweaver
www.somethingwickedguild.com


#38 lostmymojo

lostmymojo

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:38 PM

You cannot equip both rings. Vodkas' boomkin reached exalted during the streaming they did last week. He purchased both, tried to equip, and received an error. The rings are unique equip: Signet of the Avengers.

#39 Calumnus

Calumnus

    Von Kaiser

  • Allied Members
  • 93 posts

Posted 13 August 2011 - 10:17 AM

After looking at all the item pieces and the t12 set bonuses, is it even worth it to get the 4pc bonus? I realize the bonus is great for movement fights, but it's not a dps upgrade. I'm just wondering if getting off set pieces would be better. Obviously the 2pc is great and it should be aquired, but the 4pc i have trough accepting that it's good for anything but movement fights.

#40 Laurean

Laurean

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 13 August 2011 - 12:45 PM

The 4piece bonus is worth getting. It is a dps increase.
Since the Lavaburst is instant, you will have finished casting it ~1.2 seconds earlier. During that time a lavasurge proc can occur and you can cast your next Lavaburst just after the first one. Without 4piece bonus that would not be possible. It does not happen very often in single target fights, but it does.
And you are right, the 4pice bonus is great for movement. Except for Beth'tilac and maybe Shannox every fight involves (heavy) movement. Dotting Shannox' dogs to get more Lavasurge procs is maybe a dps increase (overall for sure, on Shannox I am not so sure) and definitely more fun, seeing more Lavabursts flying around :)

Besides, what other option would we have, except for hands which is not that great an update. Chest, Legs and Shoulders are Set anyway.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users