Jump to content


Photo

Team Robot Gear, Gem, Enchant, and Reforge Optimizer


  • Please log in to reply
91 replies to this topic

#41 smeags

smeags

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 02 February 2011 - 08:00 PM

I looked at the thread on how trinkets are calculated and I believe that DMC:V is calculated incorrectly because the INT gained from the proc does not improve your mana (only your max mana) the value of the INT from proc is not equal to the true value of INT.

Rather it is equivalent to the spellpower and crit gained from the proc:

INT*(value of spellpower)+INT/(int to crit%)*(crit rating to crit %)*(value of crit)

The second part of the formula just converts INT->Crit Rating.

#42 revulva

revulva

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:09 PM

I looked at the thread on how trinkets are calculated and I believe that DMC:V is calculated incorrectly because the INT gained from the proc does not improve your mana (only your max mana) the value of the INT from proc is not equal to the true value of INT.

Rather it is equivalent to the spellpower and crit gained from the proc:

INT*(value of spellpower)+INT/(int to crit%)*(crit rating to crit %)*(value of crit)

The second part of the formula just converts INT->Crit Rating.


I would agree that the portion of the intellect stat weight which accounts for increased mana pool should not be considered.

We used a sort of rough estimate for DMC: Volcano right now because everything I've read seems to unanimously agree it is the BiS trinket for damage casters. It's just that good. Over-estimating it slightly at this point won't actually make a difference in gear selection. I actually prefer it being over-estimated for now because I want it to always be selected.
Team Robot developer.
Follow Mr. Robot on Twitter or Facebook for updates, feature releases, bug fixes.
Mr. Robot is now available on your Android and iPhone

#43 smeags

smeags

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:18 PM

I would agree that the portion of the intellect stat weight which accounts for increased mana pool should not be considered.

We used a sort of rough estimate for DMC: Volcano right now because everything I've read seems to unanimously agree it is the BiS trinket for damage casters. It's just that good. Over-estimating it slightly at this point won't actually make a difference in gear selection. I actually prefer it being over-estimated for now because I want it to always be selected.


If we are to believe SimC:

From my calculations using stat weights from BiS 359 from SimC (which may not actually be BiS), it is true that Theralion Mirror and DMC:V come out at BiS. (with TM as 1 and DMC:V as 2) Though DMC:V is very close to Bell and depending on stat weight changes it may be possible for Bell to surpass DMC:V.

Additionally the reason I bring up the calculation is because depending on where people's gear is currently at stat weights change significantly and when entering custom stat weights it may be beneficial to have a more accurate modeling of DMC:V.

TL;DR...I'm just being nitpicky and GREAT JOB on the SITE =)

#44 CaseyTheRetard

CaseyTheRetard

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:53 PM

For SV hunters some WotLK enchants can be better than Cataclysm enchants, specifically


Retribution has the same issue; secondary stat enchants are rated below the AP enchants from WotLK. The default stat weightings Mr. Robot uses for Ret agree thatThe WotLK enchants are not recommended when appropriate: example.

#45 alinna

alinna

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 193 posts

Posted 02 February 2011 - 09:57 PM

It treats spirit/hit as identical stats for moonkin, elemental, spriest. We can probably update the display to make that more obvious. It will always favor spirit over hit, though - just because spirit at least does a little something for your out of combat regen.


You may want to change how it treats spirit/hit for human priests - we get an additional 3% spirit from racial so spirit is always preferred over hit. Using my character it is telling me to remove hit->spirit reforging which is not optimal.

#46 passislisk

passislisk

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 02 February 2011 - 10:05 PM

In what I believe is an issue regarding only enhancement shamans it seems that one issue I have found is that it is not detecting elemental precision being talented, so it is not calculating spirit value at all. This is an issue because the stats enchants to chest is also free hit rating if that is talented which needs to be accounted for. I imagine this is because it is an elemental talent, and the robot site may not even grab talents. My suggestion would be to have a box to put in 0/1/2/3 points in elemental precision to calculate the actual value of the spirit and get more accurate hit rating reforging.

#47 revulva

revulva

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 02 February 2011 - 10:39 PM

Smeags: I see what you are saying. I didn't realize it was so close a decision for mages. We will have to think about how we can improve the estimate slightly.

CaseyTheRetard: We'll have to add in those enchants in a small update.

Alinna: It removes that reforge since spirit and hit are weighted the same in the stat weights. I see what you are saying that as a human you can actually get 1.5 extra spirit by reforging hit to spirit... Technically that is not a zero-value reforge, although it is so minor you could argue it's not worth doing. We'll see if we can add something in to stop the site from recommending that you remove it.

Passislisk: We are actually taking elemental precision into account. When you load a character we check how many points are in the talent. Can you give me an example where you think it is not being recognized?
Team Robot developer.
Follow Mr. Robot on Twitter or Facebook for updates, feature releases, bug fixes.
Mr. Robot is now available on your Android and iPhone

#48 Labrynth

Labrynth

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 03 February 2011 - 03:30 AM

Another hit question for you.

My 'more stats' pages gives me the following (as a boomchicken)


Armory Optimized Best in Slot
Spirit 1734.00 1477.00 1797.00
Spell Hit 19.80 % 17.06 % 17.08 %


Armory/paperdoll is reporting 17.01% hit. Is there some buff you are taking into account I'm not thinking off (as you stated this is full raid buffed)? Regardless I'm struggling to see how these conversions work - even attempting to take into account the 468 pure hit I have on gear.

Mr. Robot - Character Profile - World of Warcraft

edit: Ahh, OK, thanks guys makes perfect sense. Now can you make the DPS version drop to avoid this kind of confusion for me in the future? ;)

#49 Erdluf

Erdluf

    Great Tiger

  • Members
  • 968 posts

Posted 03 February 2011 - 05:02 AM

Lab, Mr. Robot is averaging in the on-use Spirit from your Dream Owl. That is probably a mistake for DPS.

#50 revulva

revulva

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 03 February 2011 - 06:21 AM

Yup, it's averaging in the spirit proc from your trinket. We'll update it to ignore spirit procs for the hit calculation. That's one of those situations where you don't expect DPS'ers to even use a trinket like that ;)
Team Robot developer.
Follow Mr. Robot on Twitter or Facebook for updates, feature releases, bug fixes.
Mr. Robot is now available on your Android and iPhone

#51 Ealyssa

Ealyssa

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:54 PM

Would be very nice if robot could take the "Glyph of Seal of Truth" (10 expertise) for retribution paladin. Or at least let us enter a custom expertise "hardcap" (16 in this case)

#52 revulva

revulva

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 04 February 2011 - 05:40 AM

Would be very nice if robot could take the "Glyph of Seal of Truth" (10 expertise) for retribution paladin. Or at least let us enter a custom expertise "hardcap" (16 in this case)


The site automatically assumes that you have this glyph and factors in the 10 expertise. If you have an example of a situation where it looks like it is not calculating correctly, please send us a link so we can check it out!
Team Robot developer.
Follow Mr. Robot on Twitter or Facebook for updates, feature releases, bug fixes.
Mr. Robot is now available on your Android and iPhone

#53 Grigorim

Grigorim

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 112 posts

Posted 04 February 2011 - 10:08 PM

For Ret, I ran an optimization using Redcape's stat weights. Link to optimization.

The problem I'm seeing is it's adding hybrid hit gems over raw str gems then reforging away the excess hit elsewhere. Is there a way to prevent regemming of certain pieces? They look artificially better because of the hit + socket bonus, but in a lot of cases this means losing on another piece due to having to reforge excess hit to a lesser secondary stat. The general consensus with ret at least is to gem straight str (aside from meta, which in the above sim requires two yellows) and to handle hit cap issues purely through reforging.

*edit* Caught my mistake, it actually is more optimal to make the changes even with gemming hybrid hit for str bonus in my current gear (about equivalent to 7 str). My mistake, silly to ask for an optimizer not to optimize.

For user friendliness, is it possible to make it so that if you select "Exclude expensive stuff" to not suggest optimizing down to worse enchants (for instance, the blue leg armor) if you already have the superior enchant? It seems counter-intuitive, although it's easy to see why that feature went in as-is.

#54 Jibini

Jibini

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:31 PM

Mr. Robot - Character Profile - World of Warcraft

Mr Robot is currently telling me that my optimized setup includes 18.47% spell hit.

I'm also seeing a similar effect to Grigorim. It's removing the Powerful Ghostly Spellthread I currently have, in favor of Ghostly Spellthread, which seems like something that shouldn't happen (especially if you're already in the BiS piece of gear for that slot).

#55 revulva

revulva

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 04 February 2011 - 11:48 PM

Grigorim: I too have noticed that oddity of the "exclude expensive stuff" filter. We are going to try to make it so that it will still consider enchants you already have on.

Jibini: Thanks for the link, these examples help us tweak the optimization algorithm, we will figure out why the optimizer is going over the hit cap in this case and fix it in the next update.
Team Robot developer.
Follow Mr. Robot on Twitter or Facebook for updates, feature releases, bug fixes.
Mr. Robot is now available on your Android and iPhone

#56 sp00n

sp00n

    Bald Bull

  • Members
  • 1,836 posts

Posted 05 February 2011 - 02:19 AM

Mr. Robot is trying to convince my DK into using instead of . Accordingly it tells her to re-gem two red sockets into orange ones, which overall would be a drop of 34.44 EP, accounting for all set bonusses.
"But the runspeed is faster then!" he says. Please note that he also wants to put minor runspeed enchant on boots.

Link to Character

Stopped Playing


#57 revulva

revulva

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 05 February 2011 - 02:47 AM

It looks like you are right that it should not be trying to put on the fleet shadowspirit diamond. We'll check that out.

The run speed enchant on the boot is an upgrade because you are DW frost which dps's in Frost presence so you have no run speed increase. It won't show up in the EP values but we always consider having run speed as more optimal.
Team Robot developer.
Follow Mr. Robot on Twitter or Facebook for updates, feature releases, bug fixes.
Mr. Robot is now available on your Android and iPhone

#58 Lysithea

Lysithea

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 05 February 2011 - 03:42 AM

I realize this is a long shot but I have to ask. Any chance Mr. Robot will support a pvp option in the future?
Reason I'm asking is because it took me ages to get my 4% hit as close as possible while optimizing the rest when I created my s9 template few days ago.

#59 Yellowsix

Yellowsix

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 166 posts

Posted 05 February 2011 - 05:38 AM

We do plan to add PvP gear, stat weights, BiS lists, and optimization in a future update. We don't have a time frame on that at the moment, but it is near the top of our priority list.

#60 revulva

revulva

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 08 February 2011 - 05:25 PM

We have updated the site for 4.0.6. Keep in mind that the Armory is down while the maintenance is going on, so some features may be unavailable.

New items and changes to items might not all show up at this time, either. We need to wait until those changes show up on the Armory. We expect that will happen during the day today after the patch goes live. Our plan is to clear our our item cache late tonight and then everything will be available Wednesday morning.

The change log for the site is here:
Change Log

We also have a post talking about changes we are working on due to the 4.0.6 patch. Any feedback would be welcome:
4.0.6
Team Robot developer.
Follow Mr. Robot on Twitter or Facebook for updates, feature releases, bug fixes.
Mr. Robot is now available on your Android and iPhone




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users