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Warlock Mechanics in Cataclysm


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#41 clavarnway

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 10:22 PM

I would like some assistance in figuring out what's happening with Bane of Havok on Magmaw (non heroic).

Coagulation, the Warlock who's logs I'm looking through, says he put Bane of Havoc on Magmaw at the very end of the head phase, and he saw it continuing to nuke the Head while the Head wasn't visible/targetable.

Here are the logs I'm questioning what's going on.

[21:17:26.925] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 325
[21:17:27.333] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 1357
[21:17:27.734] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 3626
[21:17:28.141] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 351
[21:17:28.141] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 50
[21:17:28.550] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 17445
[21:17:28.823] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 350
[21:17:29.277] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 99
[21:17:29.277] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 6601
[21:17:29.716] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 1465
[21:17:30.094] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 351
[21:17:30.094] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 201
[21:17:30.617] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 22093
[21:17:30.940] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 1350
[21:17:30.940] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 351
[21:17:31.321] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 261
[21:17:31.321] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 3212
[21:17:32.148] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 351
[21:17:32.148] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 3011
[21:17:32.148] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 260
[21:17:32.604] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 5875
[21:17:32.946] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 350
[21:17:33.326] Coagulation Bane of Havoc Exposed Head of Magmaw 21824


As you can see, at 17:30:617 and 17:33.326 there are a couple of massive Havoc ticks for ~22k. Here are the logs of his nuke damage to Magmaw. As far as I can think these are the only things capable of producing a Bane of Havoc tick for that size.

[21:16:43.936] Coagulation Conflagrate Magmaw 15860
[21:16:44.999] Coagulation Chaos Bolt Magmaw *25941*
[21:16:50.267] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw 12529
[21:16:51.569] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw 12512
[21:16:52.454] Coagulation Conflagrate Magmaw *32590*
[21:16:56.612] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw 12520
[21:16:59.340] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw 12491
[21:17:00.441] Coagulation Conflagrate Magmaw *32590*
[21:17:00.503] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw 12541
[21:17:02.002] Coagulation Chaos Bolt Magmaw *26510*
[21:17:08.834] Coagulation Conflagrate Magmaw 18050
[21:17:11.069] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw *30032*
[21:17:18.307] Coagulation Chaos Bolt Magmaw 12318
[21:17:19.861] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw 12639
[21:18:01.442] Coagulation Conflagrate Magmaw *53410*
[21:18:05.129] Coagulation Chaos Bolt Magmaw 12657
[21:18:08.759] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw 12520
[21:18:10.076] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw 12493
[21:18:10.647] Coagulation Conflagrate Magmaw 15860
[21:18:16.766] Coagulation Incinerate Magmaw *25943*
[21:18:19.133] Coagulation Chaos Bolt Magmaw 12057
[21:18:19.862] Coagulation Conflagrate Magmaw 14685


Yet none of these occur near the same time as the Bane ticks in question.

Here are Shadowflame ticks:

[21:17:10.552] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:10.552] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:10.552] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:12.048] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite *8676*
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite *8675*
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite *8676*
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite *8675*
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite *8675*
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 3219 (O: 1003)
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 4222
[21:17:12.180] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite *8676*
[21:18:11.859] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 1738
[21:18:11.859] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite *3623*
[21:18:11.859] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 1747
[21:18:11.859] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 1753
[21:18:13.863] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 3056
[21:18:13.863] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 3056
[21:18:13.863] Coagulation Shadowflame Lava Parasite 3057


Again nothing around the same time period. Just curious what's actually going on with the Bane and more importantly, how the hell I can get 22k Bane ticks on the head.

Here are the logs themselves if you want to browse them: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
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#42 moop

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 11:15 PM

The Head is taking 100% more damage from its buff and 8% more damage from Curse of the Elements, scaling multiplicatively. Using the formula quoted below, you can work out how much Bane of Havoc should be ticking for on the Head:

boh_damage = damage_dealt * 0.15 * 1.08 * 2

The 3 "abnormal" numbers in the logs you have provided are 17445, 22093, and 21824, which can be accounted for with the following events:

[21:17:27.734] Coagulation Conflagrate Exposed Head of Magmaw 53843
[COLOR="Red"]53843 * 0.15 * 1.08 * 2 = 17445.132[/COLOR]
[21:17:29.938] Coagulation Chaos Bolt Exposed Head of Magmaw *68188*
[COLOR="Red"]68188 * 0.15 * 1.08 * 2 = 22092.912[/COLOR]
[21:17:32.655] Coagulation Incinerate Exposed Head of Magmaw *67358*
[COLOR="Red"]67358 * 0.15 * 1.08 * 2 = 21823.992[/COLOR]

The interesting part is that both damage events are being dealt to the Exposed Head of Magmaw, though I have a feeling this is some kind of bug related to my previous post in this thread about a similar subject.
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#43 Sonicator

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 10:49 AM

Nefarian
-any:
Your Imp is only able to attack nefarian while not staying on a platform in phase 2 so make sure having at least one point spent in Fel Synergy if you want to maximize boss damage.


This isnt quite true. If you get your imp onto the platform by using passive, after that you can switch it to defensive and it will start attacking Nef as soon as shadowflame barrage hits. Might have some horrible screenshots, but its bit hard to prove.

#44 Elmi

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 12:32 PM

This isnt quite true. If you get your imp onto the platform by using passive, after that you can switch it to defensive and it will start attacking Nef as soon as shadowflame barrage hits. Might have some horrible screenshots, but its bit hard to prove.


Actually it's easy to prove...please poste a log.

#45 Zakalwe

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 11:39 PM

The interesting part is that both damage events are being dealt to the Exposed Head of Magmaw, though I have a feeling this is some kind of bug related to my previous post in this thread about a similar subject.

What's actually happening here is that a BoH placed on Magmaw (at some point before the head phase) somehow redirects to his head during that phase, and the BoH damage thus double-dips from both BoE *and* from the 100% head damage bonus.

You can also observe that a BoH placed on the head during the head phase will redirect to some other target once the head is gone. On normal mode this tends to be Magmaw, which causes the behavior described in your previous post. But on heroic mode, it tends to redirect to the bone construct adds.

Generalizing from these observations we can say that, at least on the Magmaw fight, if you cast a BoH on a target that subsequently becomes unavailable, the BoH damage will still occur, but it will hit some other target that is available. Exactly how it picks this target is unknown, but it seems to follow whatever you're DPSing. The result is that you're actually doing 116.2% (1 + 0.15 * 1.08) damage to your current target. Or 132.4% (1 + 0.15 * 1.08 * 2) damage in the case of Magmaw's head.

#46 Moruff

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 01:09 AM

Generalizing from these observations we can say that, at least on the Magmaw fight, if you cast a BoH on a target that subsequently becomes unavailable, the BoH damage will still occur, but it will hit some other target that is available. Exactly how it picks this target is unknown, but it seems to follow whatever you're DPSing.


Just wanted to confirm that this is indeed true. I also did the same on Omnitron, putting BoH on the first target Arcanotron, and BoH continued damaging my current target even when it became untargetable.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

However I was not able to recreate the same effect on Twilight Council. I put BoH only on Ignacious but when he became untargetable, BoH stopped damaging the others. Not sure why BoH would behave differently on this fight.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

#47 Kuku

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 06:34 PM

Just wanted to confirm that this is indeed true. I also did the same on Omnitron, putting BoH on the first target Arcanotron, and BoH continued damaging my current target even when it became untargetable.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

However I was not able to recreate the same effect on Twilight Council. I put BoH only on Ignacious but when he became untargetable, BoH stopped damaging the others. Not sure why BoH would behave differently on this fight.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis


It doesn't behave differently -- BoH is removed from Ignacious when he despawns.

#48 Frogmite

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 07:57 PM

It doesn't behave differently -- BoH is removed from Ignacious when he despawns.


Not entirely true. He doesn't despawn, he ports up to where the other two are and there is some sort of DoT removal that happens. However it is possible to spam BoH and have it hit just as they port and after the DoT removal. It's not easily repeatable however.

#49 moop

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 05:17 PM

I found something interesting which is probably worth mentioning here, since it could have an impact people's opening rotations. The following tests were carried out on 4 level 85 training dummies, naked, with 2.97% paperdoll crit chance, using Incinerate to apply the Shadow and Flame (5% crit) debuff:

Test #1: Immolate/Corruption/Bane of Agony applied before Shadow and Flame: 17 crits out of 500 ticks [3.4%]
Test #2: Immolate/Corruption/Bane of Agony applied after Shadow and Flame: 40 crits out of 500 ticks [8.00%]

Note: Ticks from DoT's applied before Shadow and Flame was applied in Test #1 were ignored in order to avoid skewing the results, i.e. only ticks while the Shadow and Flame debuff was up were considered.


From these results, we can conclude that the 5% critical strike chance debuff does not update, which, as far as I know, is generally not true of all other debuffs. I don't know if this is specific to Shadow and Flame, as I haven't had the chance to test with Critical Mass (Mages' 5% crit debuff), but, either way, it's probably worth casting an Incinerate/Shadow Bolt in your opening sequence before applying your DoT's so that they benefit from it. To clarify, this only applies to the initial application of DoT's; if they are cast before Shadow and Flame is up, they will not benefit from it, however, once they are re-cast or refreshed, they will benefit from it.

[edit] Tested with Critical Mass as well, it behaves the same way, see here.
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#50 zarusa

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 08:24 PM

I found something interesting which is probably worth mentioning here, since it could have an impact people's opening rotations. The following tests were carried out on 4 level 85 training dummies, naked, with 2.97% paperdoll crit chance, using Incinerate to apply the Shadow and Flame (5% crit) debuff:



From these results, we can conclude that the 5% critical strike chance debuff does not update, which, as far as I know, is generally not true of all other debuffs. I don't know if this is specific to Shadow and Flame, as I haven't had the chance to test with Critical Mass (Mages' 5% crit debuff), but, either way, it's probably worth casting an Incinerate/Shadow Bolt in your opening sequence before applying your DoT's so that they benefit from it. To clarify, this is only applies to the initial application of DoT's; if they are cast before Shadow and Flame is up, they will not benefit from it, however, once they are re-cast or refreshed, they will benefit from it.


While this is interesting, it will not affect most warlocks, because most are hardcasting Incinerate Pre-pull anyways (followed by an instant soulfire).

#51 krilz

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 09:37 PM

Bane of Havoc and Storm Shield. We've been progressing on H:Conclave a few nights now and the guys at Rohash claim that the shield goes down faster with Bane on, something I have a hard time believing considering that even if I time a Chaos Bolt + Conflagrate and Immolate and Corruption ticks it equates to somewhere in the range of 5-6k. The real question however is: does it even work? The only way I could check it was to see if I got the last hit through Bane before the buff was removed but so far I've found nothing.

#52 moop

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 09:55 PM

Unrelated to your actual question, but one thing to consider on fights which have a "shield which needs to be burned down" mechanic - i.e. Ascendant Council and Conclave of Wind - is that Chaos Bolt pierces them and doesn't actually contribute to the damage required to remove them, so it's probably best to substitute it with your next highest (direct) DPET ability.
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#53 Sonicator

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 06:21 AM

Actually it's easy to prove...please poste a log.


Well, didnt get a log, but heres a screenshot.

http://img863.images...51/firebolt.jpg

On the lower right corner you can see pet cast bar casting firebolt, you also can see that its on defensive. The pet is standing on my left side and you can see a firebolt flying right infront of him. And MSBT is showing that its actually hitting something and the add is dead on the platform so it can't hit anything else but the boss.

So "Nefarian Your Imp is only able to attack nefarian while not staying on a platform in phase 2 so make sure having at least one point spent in Fel Synergy if you want to maximize boss damage." Is not true.

#54 clavarnway

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 10:10 PM

I believe this shows it. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

[22:12:00.877] Anathemâ Piercing Shots Chromatic Prototype 891
[22:12:00.919] Soxo Fireball Chromatic Prototype 13236
[22:12:00.919] Soxo Pyroblast! Chromatic Prototype 14903
[22:12:00.919] Rulham Firebolt Nefarian *7787*
[22:12:01.038] Latali Ignite Chromatic Prototype 3031
[22:12:01.172] Foogas�* hits Chromatic Prototype 4766
[22:12:01.195] Pallyytank Crusader Strike Chromatic Prototype 9090
[22:12:01.195] Pallyytank Seal of Truth Chromatic Prototype 671
[22:12:01.195] Heartshine Ignite Chromatic Prototype 2460
[22:12:01.195] Soxo Ignite Chromatic Prototype 6213
[22:12:01.195] Anathemâ Steady Shot Chromatic Prototype *11193*


The bolded line shows my Imp, Rulham, Firebolt'ing Nefarian. I included the lines about the Prototypes to show we're in p2. And if you look at World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis you'll see Rulham didn't take any Magma damage that fight so he couldn't be chilling in the lava in p2.

Total magma damage: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
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#55 Lucrece

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 11:52 PM

I'll confirm the same with my succubus. Did Nefarian as demo and the succubus just lashed away from the middle of the lava pool at Nefarian, took no lava damage/debuff. Pets treat the lava as just any other floor/platform on the encounter.

Now, fixing Al'Akir P3 for pet classes, that will be harder. They can just make pets teleport to you when you get out of range.

#56 Estha

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 01:41 PM

I've got a question relating to Hand of Gul'dan - Spell - World of Warcraft - is the tooltip, especially the phrase "causing all targets within it to have a 10% increased chance to be critically hit by any Warlock demons." a typo? Or is it recommended to have a Demonology Warlock in your raid as Destruction or Affliction Warlock?

I found no such a string in the 372 destruction profile (simcraft).

Edit: clarification

Edit2: very small sample size, Imp:

with hand of guldan (other warlock in party): World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
without hand of guldan: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

#57 krilz

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 02:25 PM

Unrelated to your actual question, but one thing to consider on fights which have a "shield which needs to be burned down" mechanic - i.e. Ascendant Council and Conclave of Wind - is that Chaos Bolt pierces them and doesn't actually contribute to the damage required to remove them, so it's probably best to substitute it with your next highest (direct) DPET ability.

Regarding this: Do you know if it works the same way on the shields on Omnotron (most notably on Magmatron)? Not that you would want to DPS them, but interesting to know.

#58 Sonicator

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 04:00 PM

If you have casted fel flame right before the 4pt11 proc and the fel flame hits the target after you gained Fel Spark buff, it consumes a stack but does no extra dmg.

18:57:13> Sonicator's Fel Flame hits Training Dummy for 1 Shadowflame.(2238 Overkill)
18:57:14> Training Dummy suffers 1 Fire damage from Sonicator's Immolate.(2126 Overkill)
18:57:15> Sonicator gains Sonicator's Fel Spark.
18:57:15> Sonicator's Fel Flame hits Training Dummy for 1 Shadowflame.(2224 Overkill)
18:57:15> Sonicator's Immolate is refreshed on Training Dummy.
18:57:16> Sonicator's Fel Flame hits Training Dummy for 1 Shadowflame.(18289 Overkill) (Critical)
18:57:16> Sonicator's Immolate is refreshed on Training Dummy.
18:57:16> Sonicator's Fel Spark fades from Sonicator.
18:57:17> Training Dummy suffers 1 Fire damage from Sonicator's Immolate.(2126 Overkill)


#59 Naforce

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 05:20 PM

If you have casted fel flame right before the 4pt11 proc and the fel flame hits the target after you gained Fel Spark buff, it consumes a stack but does no extra dmg.


This is a known problem, due to Blizzards way of calculation a spell's damage the instance you finished casting it. It used to be the same with the Molten Core proc, but it was fixed by making the proc be consumed at the same time the spell's damage is calculated. Until they fix Fel Spark so that it looses one stack upon fel flame being cast, and not landing, this problem will remain.

#60 Estha

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 01:30 AM

I've got a question relating to Hand of Gul'dan - Spell - World of Warcraft - is the tooltip, especially the phrase "causing all targets within it to have a 10% increased chance to be critically hit by any Warlock demons." a typo? Or is it recommended to have a Demonology Warlock in your raid as Destruction or Affliction Warlock?

I found no such a string in the 372 destruction profile (simcraft).

Edit: clarification

Edit2: very small sample size, Imp:

with hand of guldan (other warlock in party): World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
without hand of guldan: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis


It seems likely any demonology warlock will give all warlock pets in the raid an additional 10% crit, regardless of specc.




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