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Cataclysm Arcane Mage Compendium


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#21 Doroteasenjk

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 05:11 PM

I believe the calculation for DMC: Volcano goes something like:

1600 increase in spell power
* 1.03 Arcane Tactics
* 0.97 SP coefficient for Arcane Blast (likely out of date)
* 1.16 Mastery after ~22% loss in intellect (for my level of mastery)

=1854 increased spell damage for the period of the proc

With 2.6% increased crit, and even figuring in some factors that I have more than likely forgotten, I cannot believe there exists a world where DMC: Volcano is a DPS loss.

The key point about the mastery is this:

( (full_mana / (full_mana + proc x 15)) x mastery) + 1

is the multiplier. (full_mana is 100% mana, proc is 1600 in this case, mastery is your mastery bonus).

Since my model is incomplete, please point out any substantive errors.

#22 Noshei

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:21 PM

It seems to me that a lot of people are misunderstanding the mastery for Arcane. If you look closer at the wording of the mastery you will see that it is based upon unspent mana. Based on the wording it appears to be based on the actual amount actual mana unspent and not the percentage of unspent mana.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

#23 Finamenon

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 10:30 PM

I don't think that makes much of a difference, as the mastery bonus gives a set percentage increase in damage. If you had 100k mana or 200k mana, you're still getting the same percentage of extra damage.

#24 Naryo

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 04:09 AM

I believe the calculation for DMC: Volcano goes something like:

1600 increase in spell power
* 1.03 Arcane Tactics
* 0.97 SP coefficient for Arcane Blast (likely out of date)
* 1.16 Mastery after ~22% loss in intellect (for my level of mastery)

=1854 increased spell damage for the period of the proc

With 2.6% increased crit, and even figuring in some factors that I have more than likely forgotten, I cannot believe there exists a world where DMC: Volcano is a DPS loss.

The key point about the mastery is this:

( (full_mana / (full_mana + proc x 15)) x mastery) + 1


You forgot to take the Int modifier into account:
Lets take a closer look to the Mana aspect of the Trinket (Procc * 1.1025x modifier= 1764 int ):

E1: Lets say you have 100k Mana, 22% Damage Bonus due to Mastery
((100.000/126460) * 0,22) +1 =1.174

E2: With 50k Mana, same Mastery
((50.000/76.460)*0.22)+1 =1.144

E3: With 500k Mana, same Mastery (for Finamenon)
((500.000/526.460)*0.22)+1 =1.209

So we can conclude that as your max Mana nears infinity, the damage loss due to Mana loss in % nears 0. The realistic damage bonus is between 1.144-1.15 %.

I am not sure about your damage calculations though:
+1600 Int (Intellect has a 1.1025x modifier) =>1764 Int
*1.174% increased damage after the loss in intellect as in example 1
*(0.02*Procc Mana) (Improved Mana Gem)=529.2

With Procc + Mana Gem:
1.3*1.174*((Procc_SP + 0.02*26460) *0.97)=3394.89 increased damage on AB

#25 Quantuvis

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 07:56 AM

The latest PTR push gives arcane some love:

Arcane Blast damage has been increased by 13%. In addition, the stacking effect of Arcane Blast now increases the damage done by Arcane Explosion, and Arcane Explosion does not consume that effect.
Arcane Explosion damage has been increased by 13%.
Arcane Missiles damage has been increased by 13%.
Arcane Barrage damage has been increased by 13%.

Blizzard damage has been increased by 70%.

Combustion no longer has a global cooldown.


The Blizzard damage increase is long overdue as well :) lovely!

#26 Dideldidumm

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 09:10 AM

Can anyone tell me why they buffed everything by 13% ? It seems to be a very big buff, especially if we consider how long it took them to realize Arcane needs a change(and not by making ab even cheaper).

If these changes go live we do more damage, but it is still only ab spam as much as possible which is kinda dull in the long run :(

But it is nice that we can use blizzard now as an aoe. AE still sucks without the AB Buff and will be very situational.

#27 Seonid

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 10:56 AM

I have updated the OP with a section on the Arcane specific PTR changes and I will continue to update that section as more changes occur. Given that the PTR is typically a fluid environment, I thought it would help us if a list of changes was in one place. The flat 13% increase in damage does not really affect any of the rotations or the phases, but the changes to AE might bring the Improved Arcane Explosion talent more into focus.
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#28 Ceforium

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:49 PM

I have not yet run any tests, but wouldn't we need to see something more added to arcane explosion to make it a viable aoe. I was thinking of having it refresh the AB blast stacks when you cast arcane explosion. Do they really expect us to cast an AB to keep our stacks up while AOE'n. Seems as though it would really hinder our AOE if we have to do so. You could use POM to refresh it once, but after that you have to stop and cast AB. Maybe I'm wrong tho, has anyone done any tests? Would it be to strong to have it work in such a manner?

#29 nathanrael

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 04:36 PM

I have not yet run any tests, but wouldn't we need to see something more added to arcane explosion to make it a viable aoe. I was thinking of having it refresh the AB blast stacks when you cast arcane explosion. Do they really expect us to cast an AB to keep our stacks up while AOE'n. Seems as though it would really hinder our AOE if we have to do so. You could use POM to refresh it once, but after that you have to stop and cast AB. Maybe I'm wrong tho, has anyone done any tests? Would it be to strong to have it work in such a manner?


If you were to put points into Improved AE, it'd come in quite handy for Magmaw or Cho'gall adds, which only cause an infection/corruption if you have threat and get hit. You throw an AB at the boss to keep up your stacks, spam AE, and repeat. The talent keeps you from pulling aggro on the adds (hopefully). Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not AE also has an increased mana cost as well as damage? The patch notes weren't specific regarding it.

#30 Malcophant

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 10:37 PM

The mage changes are not on the PTR yet (just in the notes) so there is currently no way to test it.

#31 Rulaneda

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 11:53 AM

Even after being buffed, i still don't think arcane is very useful in raids. It might be viable in single target dps encounters like nef, but will be pretty much useless in bombdps/movement encounters, i think. And this AE buff won't help bombing at all, if you have to refresh arcane blasts during bombing after just casting 2 AEs.

#32 lmaoskates

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 01:06 PM

And this AE buff won't help bombing at all, if you have to refresh arcane blasts during bombing after just casting 2 AEs.


I wouldn't be that sure about this. Depending on how high the AoE ability will be, arcane might be a very pleasant spec to play in some encounters which do not only include single target fights.
e.g. low equipped mages progressing through BWD normal could eventually enjoy playing arcane @Maloriak, as your dmg in the greenphase is much less RNG-based (critting or not before combustion+impact!) and you do not have to worry about threat.
Same thing applies to Magmaw on normal mode for the parasites and trying to time the burnphases for when Magmaw exposes his head. On heroic mode fire will probably still be the leading spec due to the ability of keeping LB on several targets ("big Adds"+Boss).
And of course in both fights Incanter's Absorption is very handy. Well timing at Maloriak can provide you the buff even twice in the red phase.

#33 Rulaneda

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 04:06 PM

i'm thinking about heroic here. maloriak heroic also has these adds that put this black goo on the ground everywhere and i can't imagine bombing these with AE.
The main problem about AE bombing for me is the AB buff. The AB buff lasts 6 seconds (it does, doesn't it?) and AE won't consume it. But AE won't refresh it either, i think. So you're doing 2-3 AEs, then cast one AB and so on and i can't see this working. honestly i can't. well maybe i'm missing something but keeping AB stacked to 4 during bombing can be very hard.
as for magmaw heroic i agree with you.

#34 nathanrael

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 04:54 PM

Let's examine the talent for a moment: Improved Arcane Explosion - Spell - World of Warcraft.

Reduces the global cooldown of your Arcane Explosion spell by 0.5 sec and reduces the threat generated by 80%.

Now, the important part of the Arcane Blast tooltip:

Effect stacks up to 4 times and lasts 6 sec

Giving a bit of leeway for movement/boss mechanics/lag, that's four Arcane Explosions for every refresh of your AB stacks. Again, most fights with adds pose no threat as long as you don't have aggro, so the threat reduction is vitally important with a PbAoE like Arcane Explosion.

#35 sherog

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 09:49 AM

Hi i saw on SimulationCraft that they took Fire Power (2/3) in their template.

Anyone has been testing it?
I was wondering if it was worth it or not...

Thanks a lot. :)

#36 Silverwind

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 02:30 AM

Hi i saw on SimulationCraft that they took Fire Power (2/3) in their template.

Anyone has been testing it?
I was wondering if it was worth it or not...

Thanks a lot. :)


2/3 Fire Power is an overall DPS gain of ~0.5%, mainly because there aren't any other talents that would benefit DPS in a patchwerk-style fight.

If there is no movement (Improved Blink), damage to absorb (Incanter's Absorption), interrupts (Invocation) or if all targets have 100% external slow/snare uptime (Nether Vortex) in a fight, 2/3 Fire Power is clearly the best choice for the last 2 talent points.

#37 DrRumpus

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 02:49 PM

2/3 Fire Power is an overall DPS gain of ~0.5%, mainly because there aren't any other talents that would benefit DPS in a patchwerk-style fight.

If there is no movement (Improved Blink), damage to absorb (Incanter's Absorption), interrupts (Invocation) or if all targets have 100% external slow/snare uptime (Nether Vortex) in a fight, 2/3 Fire Power is clearly the best choice for the last 2 talent points.


Actually 2/3 Ignite is just as good (7dps more on 500,000 iterations)

#38 Wuud

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 02:05 AM

The main reason I play Arcane is due to a notion I can't shake that moving completely freely while casting is just too easy mode, there are even a few normal Boss encounters where I literally auto-followed a healer and maintained regular DPS. Yes I realize that's a silly basis for a decision.

But in playing Arcane I feel like it matches fire in a lion share of the fights. Following the example of a fight by fight breakdown:
In Tot4W I take Rohash a perfect scenario since the tornado's need eyes, and Al'akir is a largely static encounter.
On Magmaw, if he survives to a third expose and I get full burns twice, I make up any difference in AOE with 150k DPS near on for those phases.
For Omnitron what I appreciate more then the added damage and mana is the nature of my damage, spreading dots on Poison Protocol when they spawn one at a time, coupled with not doing full damage until about 6 seconds after an action compared to a <2 second AB, small or single add groups go down faster nor are they being killed before I do damage.
Maloriak is mostly static, and one of those fights where I really don't feel like higher area DPS is a meaningful contribution. Stealing the remedy is 70K or so Free mana. I Counterspell, I would expect fire to do so as well and I get 10% damage to boot. Also if higher AOE is key in any fight CD burning AOE is really not that bad if its so important.
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Without letting this get too much longer, the last thing that is mentioned previously is "execute" periods. As an example, and this also addresses the general loss of free movement, Ascendant Council gives me my worst numbers, and at the same time it is where Arcane feels Most important, I cannot burn freely since we are controlling the damage done, however my ability to exceed DPS means I can almost singly control and match the twin bosses by Burning as needed without full halts to raid damage. I also find arcane survivability very high, Cauterize aside, my small resistance bonuses coupled with normal buffs plus shields that reward the cooldown's with spell power puts my damage taken meters under the rest of the raid, Granted my healers probably don't notice or care. Then, the end of the fight, "execute" time. I stand still, pop everything (Troll Berserking too) under Bloodlust. and I execute better then any other class can. It is satisfying to crush Cho'Gall, Chimaeron, Maloriak and Al'Akir in their "dangerous" third phases.

We may never get past the notion that Arcane is inferior but with the specific Encounters out now Arcane seems vastly more Boss Effective. Its all about your Tool-kit!

#39 Intermission

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 02:48 AM

--snipped--


You do not want to play Fire, because it is easier (aka better)? That is a very silly basis for a decision.

Sorry to pick apart your boss list, but in the interest of better public knowledge:

Conclaive - you say Arcane is good on Rohash platform because tornadoes require eyes (??). Why you should not be Arcane for Rohash: a) Deep Freeze is almost a requirement for first heroic kills. B) There is so much movement on that fight in general (Wind Blast, platform/positioning changing) that fire is ideal.

Alakir - you say the fight is static. In P1 you move every few seconds: avoid Cyclone Wall, avoid Blizzard, avoid Lightning (if heroic), run in for Wind Knockback. In P2 you a constantly shuffling back and forth to avoid Cyclones and to stand in AoE healing effects. In P3 you mover every few seconds (altitude, and debuff).

Magmaw - in heroic, fire mages are perfect for soloing every parasite spawn (in my experience, 10man). Arcane is a waste if you have no way to handle the adds. There are multiple targets to kill. Fire can impact a super strong combustion and ignite from Magmaw head to Constructs, in addition to throwing LB's on constructs while killing parasites. There is also very frequent movement. However out of the fights you listed, Magmaw is the encounter where Arcane is the least terrible.

Omnotron - one again, movement everywhere. Kiting slimes, running in for Shadow Conductor, running away for Lightning Conductor. Blastwave and impact'ed dots for poison adds.

Maloriak - most raids have to stop damage on Maloriak at 30% while waiting for the next green phase. The challenge is killing all the Vile Swills and Slaves, while staying alive through red phase. With every person in the raid attempting to interrupt Arcane Storm, I doubt you would get many 10% damage bonuses.

Cauterize is the best talent in the game.

People don't have "notions" that we need to "get past". We don't judge a spec based off predetermined prejudices. A spec is either better or worse than another, for any given fight or raid role. It just so happensthat right now, in this very raiding tier, Fire is better than Arcane in almost every way. The moment Arcane has a use, it's only a respec away.

edit: This post is very outdated and Arcane is clearly superior now that I average ilvls have increased by 30 or so.

#40 fok

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 02:27 PM

a) Deep Freeze is almost a requirement for first heroic kills.

I was as Arcane on my last Conclave of Wind, and I can say, that AB(4) -> PoM -> AB(4) does actually more damage than deep freeze.




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