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Cataclysm Arcane Mage Compendium


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#421 angayelle

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:14 AM

In a such small timeframe, dps increase calculations of 5% crit bonus is very RNG. You might aswell get a lot of crits, thanks to the extra 5% or no crit at all, whereas mage armor provide a flat damage bonus due to mastery. In the end, you have to choose between RNG big damage or stable middle damage.

#422 rh8452

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:02 PM

While heroic Madness is incredibly easy compared to spine, arcane is by far the best class/spec to bring for burst DPS on parasites, elementium bolts and blistering tentacles if that's a problem for your raid. Incanter's Absorption is a guaranteed proc with the constant damage going out and with T13 4pc + SoW you can do the following "rotation":

- first parasite on a given platform: full AP/mana gem burn. SoW can be used here
- bolt spawns: you are still mid-burn, pop mage ward / mana shield preemptively for large IA spellpower proc which compensates for you being at 50-60% mana
- evocate with ~9 sec left before second parasite spawns
- second parasite: AP miniburn, SoW comes off cooldown 1 second in
- conserve to regen mana till arm/wing tentacle is at 70%
- blistering tentacles @ 70%: miniburn
- blistering tentacles @ 40%: mage ward, AP, burn tentacles then burn boss tentacle to dead, SoW can be used again here if you're on the fourth platform (it's not particularly useful on the deathwing platform as you'll have the haste buff again)
- jump to next platform, pop flame orb on new tentacle, spam missiles and regen to ~90% mana then repeat cycle

I found this rotation to work out best in our raid due to parasite/bolt dps being weak. Your aoe on regenerative blood is low but irrelevant. In addition your burst AOE on congealing blood on the deathwing platform will generally be higher as arcane than as fire.

#423 Intermission

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 11:43 PM

Blizzard is also a suitable AoE for Congealed Bloods, particularly if you do not have improved Arcane Explosion (or raid with 200ms+ latency and the lowered GCD still doesnt compete with Blizzard ticks).

#424 fateswarm

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:03 PM

Will of Unbinding & Shard of Woe are both BiS for Arcane.

Apparently not.

There's been some (clumsy) debating in MMO-Champion and this message of Kavan probably deserves a place here (responding to someone noticing if one manually equips SoW in Rawr, there may be a benefit):

That can sometimes be the case if you're using incremental optimizations without simple stacking. In that situation when comparing gear Rawr won't consider significant changes in burn/conserve/cooldown stacking. Since SoW can cause a significant change in mana consumption it can require a big change in the burn/conserve so it'll only be forced to completely recompute everything once you equip it.

If you have simple stacking enabled (which I would recommend for arcane), then incremental optimization setting is ignored mostly as the whole stacking is determined dynamically for each comparison. So in this situation you wouldn't see this kind of behavior from the comparison charts.

And no, SoW is not BIS, at least based on the tests I've done. If you've run the tests some time ago you should know that simc for a long time didn't take multipliers into effect for damage proc trinkets such as mana adept and arcane power, so that may be why you got a wrong result. (actually this was only just fixed on 2/2/2012 so it's not even in the live build yet)



#425 Spacedonkey

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:27 AM

I don't think this is good advice. The following is using data from my stats in Spine gear (as currently logged off), and my Spine logs from last night.

First, the expected benefit from 5% additional crit from Molten Armor for me would be 1.403/1.353 = 1.037, 3.7% more damage.

Now let's calculate the expected benefit from Mage Armor over the same period. My mastery of 21.48 gives a base multiplier of 32.22% extra damage at full mana. Observationally, using Mage Armor I ended most full tendon burn phases at around 60% mana last night. Switching off Mage Armor, I would have lost 4 ticks and ended at 40% mana. So on average let's assume that a tick of Mage Armor will provide the extra damage gained from going from 70% to 75% mana: (1+(0.75*0.3222))/(1+(0.70+0.3222)) = 1.3145% extra damage.

Now we can calculate the benefits of Mage Armor by how long during the tendon burn the extra mana (and thus damage) provided is there for. The worst case would be ticks at 20, 15, 10, and 5 seconds before Seal Armor Breach finishes casting. We calculate the extra damage gained by (20+15+10+5)*1.3145/23 = 2.9%. Compare this to the 3.7% gain from Molten Armor. However, this requires you to have cast Molten Armor at precisely the right time to have gotten the Mage Armor tick at 25 seconds and still been done with your GCD for the Arcane Blast cast at 23 seconds. If your ticks are earlier compared to the end of Seal Armor Breach, it's easier to have gotten Molten Armor off in time, but Mage Armor is worth additional damage by virtue of the extra damage from ticks applying to more Arcane Blasts. For example, with ticks at 23, 18, 13, 8, and 3 seconds, it's worth 3.76% additional damage, about the same as Molten Armor. If you did clip a tick while switching, comparing to ticks at 25, 20, 15, 10, and 5 seconds mean Mage Armor is worth 4.34% additional damage.

In summary, Molten Armor is worth at best 0.8% additional tendon damage (3.7% vs. 2.9%) if you never miss more ticks of Mage Armor than required to switch to it. I don't think the risk is worth the small potential benefit.

This is wrong, you are already dealing with percent by the "1.3145". (20+15+10+5)*1.3145/23 = 2.8576 or 186% increase. I don't even know why you're doing this calculation in the first place. You've already demonstrated the approximate damage gain from each tick as 1.3145%, multiply this by 4 ticks and you get 5.258% damage gain.

Here's a simpler calculation: You end with 20% more mana when you have Mage. 20% of your mastery of 32.22% is .2*.3222 = .06444 or 6.444% damage gain from having that extra 20% mana.

The damage gain from 5% extra crit is fine at 3.7%.

So Mage gives you a 2.74% more damage increase compared to Molten given your numbers.

With my numbers, since I'm reforged for Fire. I have 43.39% crit and 13.37 mastery (20.05%). Molten gives me a 3.49% increase. Mage gives me 4.01% increase.

#426 nathanbp

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:57 PM

This is wrong, you are already dealing with percent by the "1.3145". (20+15+10+5)*1.3145/23 = 2.8576 or 186% increase. I don't even know why you're doing this calculation in the first place. You've already demonstrated the approximate damage gain from each tick as 1.3145%, multiply this by 4 ticks and you get 5.258% damage gain.

Here's a simpler calculation: You end with 20% more mana when you have Mage. 20% of your mastery of 32.22% is .2*.3222 = .06444 or 6.444% damage gain from having that extra 20% mana.


You end with 20% more mana, but you don't have 20% more mana for the entire phase. To start with you have 0% more mana (before any Mage Armor ticks), so you have to consider how long you have the mana from each tick.

If you have to control a robot dinosaur that fires lazers and there's a time when you shouldn't be shooting those lazers then the encounter is clearly flawed beyond hope of fixing.


#427 Trigunflame

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:01 PM

Will of Unbinding & Shard of Woe are both BiS for Arcane.

Apparently not.

There's been some (clumsy) debating in MMO-Champion and this message of Kavan probably deserves a place here (responding to someone noticing if one manually equips SoW in Rawr, there may be a benefit):

That can sometimes be the case if you're using incremental optimizations without simple stacking. In that situation when comparing gear Rawr won't consider significant changes in burn/conserve/cooldown stacking. Since SoW can cause a significant change in mana consumption it can require a big change in the burn/conserve so it'll only be forced to completely recompute everything once you equip it.

If you have simple stacking enabled (which I would recommend for arcane), then incremental optimization setting is ignored mostly as the whole stacking is determined dynamically for each comparison. So in this situation you wouldn't see this kind of behavior from the comparison charts.

And no, SoW is not BIS, at least based on the tests I've done. If you've run the tests some time ago you should know that simc for a long time didn't take multipliers into effect for damage proc trinkets such as mana adept and arcane power, so that may be why you got a wrong result. (actually this was only just fixed on 2/2/2012 so it's not even in the live build yet)


Just to comment on this, even with the latest simcraft builds (simc-CharDevFix-win32.zip); it still shows SoW well above the other alternate trinkets (roughly ~800 dps between SoW and Heroic Insignia for example).

My own testing shows roughly as much (~400-600) on live.

#428 Kavan

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:39 AM

Development on Rawr for MOP is coming along and I have some first results regarding optimal cycles for Arcane. The numbers here are targeted at level 85 and level 85 gear.

From what I could determine the bomb does not have an effect on underlying optimal cycles. The cycles however do have an effect on delay/early refresh of Nether Tempest. In most cases if there's more than 1 tick left on Nether Tempest it is better to delay the refresh (with just one left you refresh).

0: AB0,ABar0,AM--: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Barrage
1: AB0,ABar1.705652,AM--: 0=Arcane Blast
2: AB0,ABar1.705652,AM++: 0=Arcane Blast 2=Arcane Missiles
3: AB1,ABar0,AM++: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Barrage 2=Arcane Missiles
4: AB2,ABar0,AM--: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Barrage
5: AB3,ABar0,AM--: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Barrage
6: AB4,ABar0,AM--: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Barrage
7: AB4,ABar0,AM++: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Barrage 2=Arcane Missiles
8: AB2,ABar0,AM++: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Barrage 2=Arcane Missiles
9: AB3,ABar0,AM++: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Barrage 2=Arcane Missiles
10: AB1,ABar0,AM--: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Barrage


00000 00200 0: 35559.7847288459 dps, 3093.00839300811 mps = AB4AM
00000 01202 0: 27930.7836807831 dps, 370.327408378114 mps, 2.802018086389 dpm tradeoff = AB4ABar34AM
00000 11022 0: 26298.4963240044 dps, -34.0097276055953 mps, 4.03694642790488 dpm tradeoff = AB3ABar23AM
00021 10020 0: 24686.0650021915 dps, -367.197267070426 mps, 4.83941063463166 dpm tradeoff = AB2ABar12AM
00021 00000 1: 23534.9991518006 dps, -598.160057782473 mps, 4.98377183113434 dpm tradeoff = AB1ABar1AM
00200 00000 1: 22493.7933804904 dps, -692.244301329406 mps, 11.0667390421309 dpm tradeoff = AB1ABar0AM

#429 Batar

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:31 PM

00000 00200 0: 35559.7847288459 dps, 3093.00839300811 mps = AB4AM


Kavan, this may have been addressed somewhere else, but AB4AM is more DPS than a straight AB burn?

#430 Kavan

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 03:55 AM

Kavan, this may have been addressed somewhere else, but AB4AM is more DPS than a straight AB burn?


Yes, the spells are designed in a way that it is always desirable to use AM proc (but you might want to delay it to use it on high stack instead of whenever it procs, the delay is worth it over wasted procs).

#431 Zionide

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:34 PM

From what we know of the MoP arcane model it sounds like flame orb may be used as a DPS cooldown that will be very useful to try to line up with Arcane power. The reasoning is due to AM having a a higher damage than any spell at 4 stacks so the extra procs from flame orb could allow for several consecutive AM's. Combine that with Arcane Power and you have a huge DPS boost. Additionally AM will not be affected by the downside of the increased mana cost during AP allowing it to take full advantage of mana adept mastery.

#432 HowToReadPreviousPosts

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 09:07 PM

From what we know of the MoP arcane model it sounds like flame orb may be used as a DPS cooldown that will be very useful to try to line up with Arcane power. The reasoning is due to AM having a a higher damage than any spell at 4 stacks so the extra procs from flame orb could allow for several consecutive AM's. Combine that with Arcane Power and you have a huge DPS boost. Additionally AM will not be affected by the downside of the increased mana cost during AP allowing it to take full advantage of mana adept mastery.


Flame Orb is gone woefully for all specs :( - only Frost's got a Frozen Orb.

#433 Sinless

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:42 PM

To be quite honest I'm not really sad to see flame orb go away for arcane. To me, it always looked out of line compared to how arcane plays and feels.

As far as current iteration of arcane goes in MoP beta, I love it. It feels more dynamic to me as opposed to the AB-AM spam it is on live, and AoE scenarios require some tough decisions, which is good.

#434 Heef

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:04 PM

Bump to get this thread back within the usual 30-days filter.




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