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Unholy DPS | Back in Black [4.2.0]


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#41 optional22

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 07:03 AM

e: What do you do on Sinestra with Essence of the Red? I'm assuming you just SS spam because capping resources is inevitable.


SS/DnD spam. If you run low on runes, throw out your DCs in between an SS (that happens to me cause my haste is only 1919 at the moment). If you get even one RC proc, you'll be overflowing in runes for quite a bit.

#42 Netukka

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 09:38 AM

Quick note for the macro part...

I do not recommend having a macro for combined UF/Gargoyle. With the way the server processes the requests, if you macro the two skills together, your gargoyle will not get the benefit from UF haste. Much better to have UF/trinkets/golemblood/etc. on one macro and a completely separate button for gargoyle.

#43 optional22

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 02:46 AM

Mr. Heartless, have you considered Cael's Will for BIS? Caelestrasz's Will - Item - World of Warcraft

With the extra strength, the EP makes it stronger than Rage of Ages.

Also, HM Ring of Rivalry is identical to the Cloudburst and much easier to get. Ring of Rivalry - Item - World of Warcraft

#44 Papercutter

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 08:46 AM

comparing stat weights i get glittering epidermis pulling ahead of floating web slightly for bis pre hardmodes gear

#45 Matron Heartless

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 03:07 PM

Mr. Heartless, have you considered Cael's Will for BIS? Caelestrasz's Will - Item - World of Warcraft
With the extra strength, the EP makes it stronger than Rage of Ages.

It's actually Mrs., but thank you for the chuckle ;)

I did consider Cael's, but I initially had it shy by a mere 3 points with standard gemming and no reforging. Looking back however, one would most certainly reforge away the dodge to either haste/hit. Even with a reforge to something as weak as crit, it would still out pace Rage by a significant margin. This is one piece of gear I should have weighted with its reforge (given an unvalued defense passive) and will accordingly revise it in the list along with updated reforging for standard & Draenei sets. Thanks for bringing that up.


Also, HM Ring of Rivalry is identical to the Cloudburst and much easier to get. Ring of Rivalry - Item - World of Warcraft

I have replaced the Cloudburst random enchantment ring with Ring of Rivalry.

comparing stat weights i get glittering epidermis pulling ahead of floating web slightly for bis pre hardmodes gear


Comparing these at the 359 level without reforging I see it being very, very close with Floating Web squeaking out about 2 more points.

:
2.96(190) + 0.66(127) + 0.86(127)= 755.44

:
2.96(190) + 0.82(127) + 0.72(127)= 757.98

If I have made any errors or unfair assumptions, again, please let me know.

#46 Devodante

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 04:44 PM

Also, HM Ring of Rivalry is identical to the Cloudburst


Not really, in fact Ring of Rivalry HM has 1 more strength (215 strength) => Ring of Rivalry - Game - World of Warcraft ,
While the Cloudburst Ring HM has only 214 strength => Cloudburst Ring - Game - World of Warcraft .
So actually, the Ring of Rivalry is much more easier to get but also has just one more strength (very minor, yes, but enough to completely overshadow the Cloudburst Ring).

#47 Basso

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 07:03 PM

Comparing these at the 359 level without reforging I see it being very, very close with Floating Web squeaking out about 2 more points.

:
2.96(190) + 0.66(127) + 0.86(127)= 755.44

:
2.96(190) + 0.82(127) + 0.72(127)= 757.98

If I have made any errors or unfair assumptions, again, please let me know.


I got curious and calculated with reforging, these are my results:

:
Crit -> Mastery
(2.96 * 190) + (0.66 * 77) + (0.86 * 127) + (0.82 * 50) =
562.4 + 50.82 + 109.22 + 32.9 = 763.54

Crit -> Hit to Cap
(2.96 * 190) + (0.66 * 77) + (0.86 * 127) + (1.08 * 50) =
562.4 + 50.82 + 109.22 + 54 = 776.44

:
Expertise -> Haste
(2.96 * 190) + (0.82 * 127) + (0.72 * 77) + (0.86 * 50) =
562.4 + 104.14 + 55.44 + 34.4 = 764.98

Expertise -> Hit to Cap
(2.96 * 190) + (0.82 * 127) + (0.72 * 77) + (1.08 * 50) =
562.4 + 104.14 + 55.44 + 54 = 775.97

If you need to reforge for the hitcap is even better then .

#48 Lamperouqe

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 03:53 AM

Thalastor, while having over 60 RP (assuming 110 RP cap) you overcap RP hitting those 5 consecutive SS's adding to the RP lost. If you have a Sudden Doom proc you delay your DC increasing the possibility of overwriting the proc. There is also a higher chance for dodges before getting the runes on CD with 5 strikes compared to 2, pushing the runes even further back. If you don't have DT up you want to do this to stack it up faster as well.

I can't think of anything else you might have overlooked for now.

#49 seizure

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 04:52 PM

I have some questions that I couldn''t find answers to and that are ( no longer ) answered in this thread.

1: As diseases do not refresh when your procs etc. come up, you almost always have a pair of diseases on the target that does minimal damage. Is it viable to refresh those diseases as soon as all your procs and cooldowns align, i.e. 10x License to Slay, Crushing Weight, Heart of Rage, Potion, UF, RotfC etc.? While testing I could almost double the damage the diseases did when reapplying them with said buffs active.

2: Is gargoyle-twisting ( Turning around to cast gargoyle, so he doesn't melee the target ) still necessary? My tests weren't giving me the answers I looked for: Sometimes the gargoyle would do a bit more damage meleeing half of the time, sometimes not.

3: How do I start a standard fight correctly? Should I go for 60 Runepower to summon the gargoyle as soon as possible, should I use the RP for 5 DCs, ignoring SS/DnD/FeS, should I do one of those two and instantly use ERW to achieve the other one?

#50 Taiyoken

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:59 PM

Gargoyle Twisting still works and the Gargoyle should do more damage casting than melee'ing.

That disease refresh method is non-optimal because inevitably you have to refresh your diseases due to:
1) Ebon Plague lasting shorter than BP/FF.
2) Outside of Sinestra P3 you can't hope to FeS enough to roll your diseases infinitely.

As for your procs, you should be prepotting anyway. If you really wanted you could open with a DnD + Outbreak and get a melee hit in for a stack of L2S and hope for RotFC. Haste does not affect disease ticks so Crushing Weight/UF don't matter.

I did some testing with no proc (+HoW) Outbreak and full proc Outbreak (RotFC + Str Pot + 10 stack L2S) and your diseases maybe gain 25-30% increased damage.

#51 seizure

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 10:48 PM

My test results are quite different, maybe because of HoR.

Outbreak without procs:
Blood Plague - 1576 per tick
Frost Fever - 1188 per tick

Outbreak with 10x L2S, HoR, Golemblood pot, Blood Fury, RotFC:
Blood Plague - 3622 per tick
Frost Fever - 2746 per tick

Thats a ~130% boost when all stars align ( unlikely, but possible ).

#52 Taiyoken

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 04:54 AM

Actually I rechecked and it's like 40% for me (1700 no proc, 2400 proc). Using a F rune will mess up your FeS somewhere in your rotation although you might get lucky with RC procs.

But again, you have Golemblood Pot + Blood Fury and 2 stacks of L2S if you open with DnD so the difference might not be that far off, probably 90%.

I think it's worth it to Outbreak the diseases but probably not so much to use U/F to reapply unless you get some sort of damage buff (heroic Nef, Omnotron puddle).

#53 Mericet

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 02:05 PM

3: How do I start a standard fight correctly? Should I go for 60 Runepower to summon the gargoyle as soon as possible, should I use the RP for 5 DCs, ignoring SS/DnD/FeS, should I do one of those two and instantly use ERW to achieve the other one?


The optimal way to start a fight is highly subjective based on the mechanics and expected duration of the fight. For example, on a fight like heroic Maloriak with the dark magic phase first, it's important to not use DT too early before the adds are summoned. The gargoyle isn't nearly as useful on the adds, so I usually use that first on the boss and have just enough time to build a 5 stack of shadow infusion by the time the adds appear (I try to save ERW for aoe rather than burning it early for RP). You can also build a 5 stack for DT first (but not use it yet) and then pool RP for the gargoyle, but by then your trinket procs and pre-potion will probably be gone.

In general, you want to get as many DTs as you can without losing a gargoyle. If a fight is going to last 5-6 minutes you can only get 2 gargoyle summons in no matter what you do, so it's not as important to get the first one out immediately. In this case, any time during the first minute or so is early enough to ensure the spell has the 3 minutes to cool down and be used again for its full 30 second duration without being wasted.

#54 Lamperouqe

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 09:12 PM

If this FeS nerf goes live, it will pretty much guarantee that using FeS on Death Runes in any situation will not be worth it.

E: Should've known not to be so hasty with the amount of tooltip fixes recently.

#55 Seiz

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 05:47 AM

I was just wondering why under the DS section of the thread there is nothing about it being usable on fights where people get mind controlled ie Heroic Nef / Cho.

Also does anyone know if using DS on a spriest and having them cast Devouring Plague as their first skill would give you another 18% on the shadow portion of SS?

#56 rh8452

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 10:23 AM

I tend to cast it on our ret pally who pops seal of truth when the MC ends. It generally ends up being upwards of 200K damage if you get MCed once during its duration and have it rolling, and it's better towards the end of phase 1 since the seal lasts 60 seconds and therefore improves dps on the phase 2 add on nef.

I play frost though. I didn't notice DP giving me more obliterate damage when I had it up. For unholy DKs getting DP or VT off a shadow priest, or bane of doom from a warlock may be a better use due to mastery.

The reason I always go for the paladin seal is its duration, 60 seconds almost assures I'll get MCed at some point while it's up, resulting in very high ticks (I had it ticking for 6-7K). For DP/VT, unless you get MCed immediately after simming the spell, you'll be forced to use it without the MC buff before it expires resulting in it ticking rather low comparatively. I don't think 12% bonus damage on SS (if it indeed works) + DP's damage over its duration can compare to the damage from seal of truth unless you get the next MC after the priest.

#57 Peepjynx

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 01:19 PM

Just something helpful for anyone wanting to make a decent two button push macro and help the raid.

I have one of my "floater" points in IBT since the ramp up time for ghoul transformation seems to coincide with the ability cooldown with one point in it. It's an awesome way to gauge a freebee xform in case you're stuck on a GCD.

... and by help out the raid, I filled out AMS and AMZ. It just works out nicely.

And also, I second the motion of Dark Simulacrum being useful on fights where fellow raiders get MC'd, stealing their abilities can be amazingly useful towards raid bosses.

#58 IPolyakov

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 12:11 PM

I was actually wondering about 3 things.
1) Nefarian heroic- what ability to use after the mind control? outbreak to apply extra boosted diseases? DnD cause of its superior DPET or simply scourge strike?
2)my latest caclulations (raid buffed) with Kahorie sim (seems to work better for me because of ping included into simulation, which is not available with simcraft) show that actually at ~2000 haste rating its value falls below mastery and expertise, which actually means hitting "softcap". In real fights i often have the above discussed situations when i have overcapped resources if i run with maximum haste (2300 for my gear) and expertise undercap. So is this for real and i should aim for that softcap or am i just a bad player screwing up calculations and rotation? Really want ur input on this.
3) does weapon speed e.g. 3.8 or 3.6 for two hander really matter? Saw somewhere that strikes dmg was made normalized some time ago for 3.4 weapon speed. If weapon speed matters, would it be better to wear 359 ashkandi over 372 pvp weapon?

#59 Zimeron

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 01:16 PM

because of ping included into simulation, which is not available with simcraft

All the latency options are customizable. Options - simulationcraft - TCI reference: exhaustive list of settings. - World of Warcraft DPS Simulator - Google Project Hosting

#60 legitpanda

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Posted 04 April 2011 - 04:14 PM

It makes more sense to me to use it on a lock, or someone who will be re-casting dots based on the %dmg increase. Outbreak on onyxia then run your ass over to nef and hard cast an it/ps. Roll your dots as much as possible, you can AMS every other electric shock in p3-really close to every one. IBF/AMZ when you run out with the cinders (don't jump in the lava). I situationally save AMS for when a healer has to run out, or I want to stay aggressive on the add while maintianing RP to kick. Strang works too, you should be using it.

It's a relief to find that our thread isn't as awful as blood/frost now.




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