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[Resto] Simple Questions + WoL Feedback


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#1 Carebare

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 12:29 AM

This is the thread for simple questions regarding Restoration. If your question applies to one of the existing thread topics, please post it there instead; if you expect to generate significant additional discussion, create a new thread. If, however, you have a simple question that only requires a simple answer and don't see a better place to post it, this is your thread.

Review the forum rules.
Though forum rule 7 is relaxed for this thread, that doesn't mean the rest of the rules are. Familiarize yourself with them prior to posting or you will be infracted.

Additionally, we are now allowing you to post your World of Logs parses if you feel stuck with respect to your healing output. Please note you must follow the criteria listed here:
  • The parse must be from a 10 or 25 man raid (non-heroic is fine). 5-mans and target dummies are not welcome.
  • In line with this, you must be max level (85). We're not about to look over a log from a level 70 Sunwell run.
  • Your profile MUST work. If you tend to change specs/log out in PVP gear please create a character profile through Wowhead or a similar site. That way if your issue is related to your gear, help can be provided. If your post is about an alt druid, you absolutely must provide an armory link/character profile or we simply can't help you.
  • You must give a few sentences regarding what you think your problem is. Are you moving a lot due to fight mechanics? Do you perform some niche role that may impact your healing? (healing a kiting tank that requires you to be out of range of the raid, etc). We can't help you if you don't help us.
  • You must specify your healing role within your raid. Do you tank heal exclusively, raid heal exclusively, do both with an emphasis on tanks, do both with an emphasis on the raid, etc.?
  • Help for healing is more limited than DPS due to the nature of healing in general. Be reasonable. Do not come here saying TreeCalcs says you should do 9.5k hps and you're doing 9k, that's not something we can fix. The help provided here will be more along the lines of critiquing your spell break down with respect to the role you've stated that you provide.

Please note that this thread is no exception to how the rest of our forums work regarding the fact that no one is obligated to help you. Do not bump, repost, or cry about it. You will be heavily infracted if you do.

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#2 Arthek

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:17 PM

I'm a raid leader and have been having trouble trying to understand our Resto Druid's output.
He's well geared but his heals heal for much less than other druids', our raid doesn't specify healing roles.
Here's a few parses:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
And here's his armory: Reimura @ Warsong - Game - World of Warcraft
While my knowledge of resto druids is very limited, I think the reason for his low heals could be that he's not using his mastery to it's fullest extent.

#3 Carebare

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 03:04 PM

His regrowth seems high. In an ideal world he should be rolling a tank with LB with RJ as needed/able, hotting the raid when the encounter mechanics call for it, and likely filling the down time with WG/Swiftmends on the raid and also Nourish/HT on the tank(s).

Regarding his gear, he's at an awkward point with respect to haste where he has some extra that isn't really going anywhere and would be better served switching some of his reforges to Mastery.

Additionally, he's not swiftmending nearly enough given the power of the spell. Even if the mends result in crappy efflor placement it should still be casted nearly on cooldown. Given that it's 10 man and the other healer appears to be a holy priest, his lifebloom uptime should likely be higher - especially on a fight like Omnotron. You might also want to make sure that when he's using Tree of Life he's rolling both tanks with Lifebloom since there really isn't a good reason not to lend support healing when it's trivial to do.

It's hard to say otherwise without speaking with him directly/having him explain under what circumstances he's selecting which spells, etc. Other folks may have more input, this was just a brief look through on my end.

Edit: He also didn't use Tranq on Omnotron which is kind of odd. There are plenty of times to put it in there, especially if you're not running a Disc Priest on that fight -- granted you are 3 healing a normal difficulty Omnotron which means there really isn't THAT much healing to go around.

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Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.


#4 Angarr

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:02 PM

The Omnotron log isn't very interesting. He's not that far behind the other healers and his 4 sources of healing are all nearly 50% overheal with Wildgrowth being an amazing 68.6% overheal. His Lifebloom uptime seems good, but it looks like there probably wasn't much going on for him in that fight. If he wants to snipe other healer's heals to rise much higher on the meters he'll need to understand incoming damage on the fight and plan for it accordingly.

The Heroic Magmaw fight is much more interesting. He gained 15 Clearcasting procs, but cast 41 Regrowths. This is a pretty clear overuse of Regrowth. It's relatively rare that Regrowth needs to be cast outside of a Clearcasting proc. Even while it's instant in Tree of Life form it's much more efficient to take advantage of Wild Growth and Lifebloom and burn the extra clearcasting procs on Regrowths sparingly.

Additionally, his Lifebloom uptime on Magmaw was only 78.2%. While this isn't absolutely ruining him, it's definitely not where he wants to be.

I think the most striking difference between his Heroic Magmaw parse and a recent parse of my own is how substantially smaller the average value of his HoT ticks are. His spell power is about 320 behind mine, but his item level is higher so I can only assume he has access to at least what I have access to.

Reimura Rejuv Average Tick - 2372.4
Fangar Rejuv Average Tick - 3458.6
Reimura WG Average Tick - 699.1
Fangar WG Average Tick - 919.5
Reimura LB Average Tick - 955.7 (Possibly skewed by failing to stack it to 3 on the primary target for large portions of the fight)
Fangar LB Average Tick - 1357.2

The striking difference between our Rejuv average ticks is probably that he isn't chasing his WG targets with Rejuv. WG is an excellent spell for giving yourself 5 or 6 targets to take advantage of your mastery.

Looking at his gear, he is wearing 5/5 Stormrider's Vestments which is probably not optimal. He also has zero Brilliant Inferno Rubies in his gear (our best gem). Based on this evidence, we can infer that he is either not taking advantage of his Mastery, not stacking Lifebloom to 3 on his primary targets, and/or not valuing int highly enough in his gems and trinkets.

I would like to see him replace most of his Purified Demonseyes with Brilliant Inferno Rubies. I would also like to see him swap out at least one of his set pieces (probably legs) for a piece with Haste on them (The Balance Tier Legs would be an excellent option). If he reforges his Chelley's to haste instead of mastery and switches to the Balance legs he'll go up to 1619 haste. At 1573 haste, he can achieve an extra tick of Wild Growth given that your warlock grants him Dark Intent. This would be a huge improvement.

#5 Zaeolos

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:22 PM

I'm a raid leader and have been having trouble trying to understand our Resto Druid's output.
He's well geared but his heals heal for much less than other druids', our raid doesn't specify healing roles.
Here's a few parses:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
And here's his armory: Reimura @ Warsong - Game - World of Warcraft
While my knowledge of resto druids is very limited, I think the reason for his low heals could be that he's not using his mastery to it's fullest extent.

A good tool I try to use is Comparebot and match myself up with other druids as close to same gear and spec as I. I have compared Reimura with myself here: CompareBot! - RaidBots - Web Tools for WoW Nerds . He is at the same gear level, but stats are way different. He should not be gemming Int/Spi unless it's a blue socket or he needs it for his meta. He has too many of those gems. Replacing them with full Int or Int/Haste or Int/mastery will be better. Druids do very good on mana. He may be losing mana fast however because he is casting too many Regrowths, which unless it is being cast during a Omen of Clarity (OoC) proc, it should not be cast. Next, it would help a lot to reforge or gem his Haste and Crit into Mastery down to no less than 916 Haste. Once he gains all that mastery, he needs to learn how to use it in which case he needs to speak to another Druid or come here to EJ and start reading. Basically, Mastery is applied to spells by applying a healing spell to a target that already has a HOT ticking on them. There are many ways to this and will take practice.

Another thing I just noticed is that he is using the Glyph of Regrowth which is pretty useless. It should probably be replaced with the Glyph of Lifebloom unless he can make good use of it on the Chimaeron fight. Some things could be changed in his spec also, but some of that is personal preference.

The two logs you show are tough to analyze for overall healing since you are running 3 healers and all have pretty high over heals so a lot of heals are wasted. But Reimura does have weaker heals than what they could be.

Edit: Alot of what I said was posted by above poster while I typed it. Feel free to remove this if necessary.

#6 Sasazuka

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Posted 18 April 2011 - 05:38 PM

He should also adjust his spec to include Swift Rejuvenation (also use Rejuvenation more) and spec out of Nature's Bounty (optional - Regrowth usage scales with mana and he didn't use Nourish on the Magmaw fight). How's his mana on different fights? If mana is a problem he should probably get Furor otherwise Genesis is a better option than Blessing of the Grove. As mana becomes less of a problem, Regrowth usage should go up and Healing Touch down.

Going further on what others have said about Reimura's Lifebloom - his Bloom buff (4-pc T11) had only an uptime of 55.3 %. Allowing for letting LB bloom, it should be sitting at least around 70+%.

Additionally, on the Magmaw fight he could probably use Tranquility a bit later. When Nefarian starts casting Shadowflame Barrage there should be plenty of damage there for Tranquility to heal.

I think the general consensus on gemming is that if the socket bonus isn't 20+ intellect it's better to just gem straight intellect and ignore the socket bonus. An exception might be when close to the next haste breakpoint.

On some of his other fights, he looks like he's doing pretty well. He may want to get the Druid Mastery addon and see how much his style of play is benefiting from mastery. As it stands in 10-man, mastery is a very strong stat which may or may not change in 4.1 with incoming changes.

EDIT: Regarding what Zaeolos said about Glyph of Regrowth. On the Magmaw fight, I counted 7 refreshes of Regrowth. Though I'm not 100% sure whether I'm interpreting it correctly. I simply looked for the Regrowth spell and counted the number of times it is refreshed (assuming casting on a person with it already isn't being shown as a refresh).

#7 Danorager

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:21 PM

Sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but I've read through this post as best as I could, and I still can't find the answer I'm looking for.

I understand that there are two critical break points for Haste that I need to hit. I primarily heal a 10 man group, and we often run with Moonkins (and rarely with a warlock or a mage). If I remeber correctly, the moonkin gives a 5% haste buff. As I'm looking through my gear and deciding what I need to do to hit that 2005 breakpoint (reforging and re-gemming), I am still left with the following question - Should I try to hit the 2005 haste breakpoint unbuffed, or should I take in to account that I will usually have the 5% Moonkin buff within the raid. Wild Growth is by far and away my most effective spell that I use in raids, accounting for 28-30% of my healing on boss encounters and I believe that the extra tick would be very effective given my healing style.

Do I go "balls out" and try to hit the 2005 break point, or can I get away with 1910 (or so) haste? (and it that the way that it works?)

Thanks in advance!

#8 Hamlet

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 08:24 PM

The 2005 figure assumes that you have 5% haste. Without the buff, the number would be 2745.

#9 Osyra

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 11:02 PM

hi.. two weeks ago our raid first-killed nefarian with a lot of trouble because i couldn't manage my platform in the 2nd phase. last week we tried it again and we couldn't kill him because i always failed (someone of my platform died) i always had the 4-man-platform and then they switched me over to the 3-man-platform and even there i failed -.-

i can't convince the raid of not taking 2 electrocutes in phase two (what is dumb, yehee) .. so does anybody have an idea how to master that?
atm i'm playing tree of life at start of p2 to heal them all up.. sometimes i get all of us living through the first electrocute (i use barkskin), then i cast trainquility after, but even if i take all cooldowns, i just can't manage to have them all on 100% exactly when the electrocute comes.. and then someone dies..

i heal with WG on cooldown, lifebloom x3 on all targets when in tree of life and nourish as time-filler.. nature's swiftness if i need to bring someone up right before electrocute

#10 Sasazuka

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 11:24 PM

We sometimes do 2 electrocute as well. DPS is manged so that as soon as Onyxia goes down, we DPS Nefarian into another electrocute before he takes flight. We then use the time that Nefarian goes up into the air and before the magma appearing to heal up - turn off water collision(?). If the situations allows it, we DPS Nefarian into another electrocute. This way, ToL and Barkskin is enough to get you through without the need for Tranquility. The more electrocute you squeeze in earlier on, the easier the final ground phase will be for the tank and healers. What's your raid composition like - certain classes have their own survival CD they could pop to help healers out, if not health stone is always good here.

How you roll your HoTs matter as well. Instead of getting 3xLB one person first, you should just 1xLB each person/pet, repeat, and maintain the 3xLB on each person/pet. During this you would want to use your OoC on RG for those emergency situations.

#11 oopsminded

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 10:19 AM

so does anybody have an idea how to master that?

I agree with you that having 2 Electrocutes in p2 is an unnecessary complication. From all the variations I did, 2 in p1, none in p2, the rest in p3 is by far the easiest. It requires good p1 adds placement and that the adds tank in p3 knows his job.

Assuming that it's beyond your control though, and you'll have to do Nefarian with 2 electrocutes in P2, I would reforge all your haste past 915 to mastery and, outside ToL, use 3xLB on one person, WG on cooldown, cast/refresh Rejuvenation on all 3/4 of you after WG so it benefits from mastery, Swiftmend (and thus Efflorescence) on cooldown. Ideally, when you recast WG, it also hits people with a hot on them. Just get into a rythm, don't panic, remember that doing this (and using your free GCDs, if needed on HT) you're maxing your output, the rest is about others interrupting, using personal abilities/cooldowns/trinkets to help get through Electrocutes.

If you think you can do that, mana-wise, with one of your trinkets replaced by Mirror of Broken Images, you can practically alternate Barkskin/Mirror as a defensive cooldown on every Electrocute, not only in p2.

Getting the 4 men platform, assuming it's the one with the 2 tanks, might be easier to heal, take that into account.

#12 GTtheBard

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:33 PM

Also, if you're blowing your Output cooldowns on the first Electrocute, have your raiders use minor or short cooldown damage reductions on that one (or none at all), and use their major cooldowns on the second Electrocute when you don't have the extra oomph from TOL.

If you alternate your TOL+Tranquility with personal cooldowns, then it shouldn't be too much of a hassle (in theory).

You could also switch it around - have the raid use personal cooldowns on the first electrocute, and use TOL+Tranq+small cooldowns on the second one. That might be more beneficial, as personal cooldowns will be back up in Phase 3 at some point and you can use Tree of Life as something of a mana battery deep into Phase 2 when you'll need mana the most. With three Lifeblooms rolling at the end of Phase 2, you can likely afford to use Healing Touch as a filler instead of Nourish.

#13 camaz0tz

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:43 PM

hi.. two weeks ago our raid first-killed nefarian with a lot of trouble because i couldn't manage my platform in the 2nd phase. last week we tried it again and we couldn't kill him because i always failed (someone of my platform died) i always had the 4-man-platform and then they switched me over to the 3-man-platform and even there i failed -.-

i can't convince the raid of not taking 2 electrocutes in phase two (what is dumb, yehee) .. so does anybody have an idea how to master that?
atm i'm playing tree of life at start of p2 to heal them all up.. sometimes i get all of us living through the first electrocute (i use barkskin), then i cast trainquility after, but even if i take all cooldowns, i just can't manage to have them all on 100% exactly when the electrocute comes.. and then someone dies..

i heal with WG on cooldown, lifebloom x3 on all targets when in tree of life and nourish as time-filler.. nature's swiftness if i need to bring someone up right before electrocute


Does your raid have Mirror of Broken Images - Item - World of Warcraft ? Honestly even without it you should be fine, it just takes some coordination with your own platform. Let them be aware that the first electrocute they should use any personal cooldown and any personal healing they can while you top them up. Remind them their dps drops to zero if they die if they refuse to stop dpsing. Then the second electrocute I would always pop tranq a couple seconds before the electrocute, usually right after the in game emote warning I'd barkskin then hit tranq and it'd work out perfectly. This gets some initial stacks of the heal up and gets the bigger heals coming out right after the damage.

That should help, Also healing touch>nourish.

#14 czeshirecat

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 06:12 PM

I wasn't sure whether to post here or on the general resto cataclysm release thread.
My main is resto, my gear level is 354 and Im a member of a pretty lowly guild regarding cata raid progression.
Last night I raided for the first time with another guildy who's avg gear level is lower than mine but who was matching or surpassing me on recount for HPS.
As always when I play with another resto, I went to compare his spec later.
My specc priorities have (for upto tier 11, 359s) been Spirit, Haste > 12.5% (1600), mastery/crit.
Unbuffed my combat regen is 2250, Haste 12.5, spell power 7280, crit 16.65 and mastery 11.10.
He, on the other hand has combat regen of 2154, Haste 3.86, crit 16.37 and mastery 17.06
I came to check out EJ as I've not been here for a while and there was little advice for a while after cata began.
In the general breakdown, I noticed that haste has been demoted (you run out of mana faster) and mastery promoted since early days. But in the thread itself there's still a lot of talk about haste calculations as if others still value haste.

Is there a simple, non controversial recommendation for specc priorities and levels to aim for at certain gearing levels?
I was about to dump my haste and respec/reforge, but Im very wary about doing this without checking first.

#15 Danorager

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 04:16 PM

This is the first time that I've opened this thread, having spent a majority of my time on the site reading the resto thread below, but what a fantastic opportunity to get my fellow druids to give me tips and tricks based on my play!

So - that being said, I have just recently reforged and regemmed to hit the 2005 haste breakpoint and I would like to get some feedback on my play, especially considering my gear (I've been not so lucky with the boss drops as of late)

Here is my most recent night of raiding - things went well, but I know that I made a multitude of mistakes that evening:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis


We downed Halfus and the Twins and wiped 12 times on The Council

Here is my armory profile: Clearwaters @ Bronzebeard - Game - World of Warcraft

Let me know your thoughts and thanks in advance!

#16 Danorager

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 04:44 PM

I wasn't sure whether to post here or on the general resto cataclysm release thread.
My main is resto, my gear level is 354 and Im a member of a pretty lowly guild regarding cata raid progression.
Last night I raided for the first time with another guildy who's avg gear level is lower than mine but who was matching or surpassing me on recount for HPS.
As always when I play with another resto, I went to compare his spec later.
My specc priorities have (for upto tier 11, 359s) been Spirit, Haste > 12.5% (1600), mastery/crit.
Unbuffed my combat regen is 2250, Haste 12.5, spell power 7280, crit 16.65 and mastery 11.10.
He, on the other hand has combat regen of 2154, Haste 3.86, crit 16.37 and mastery 17.06
I came to check out EJ as I've not been here for a while and there was little advice for a while after cata began.
In the general breakdown, I noticed that haste has been demoted (you run out of mana faster) and mastery promoted since early days. But in the thread itself there's still a lot of talk about haste calculations as if others still value haste.

Is there a simple, non controversial recommendation for specc priorities and levels to aim for at certain gearing levels?
I was about to dump my haste and respec/reforge, but Im very wary about doing this without checking first.


I've found that the general advice is either (a) push your haste to 2005 (if it doesn't kill more than 100-150 int from re-gemming) or (B) keep your haste around 920 or so, and reforge the rest in to mastery.

I recently decided to push my haste above the 2005 breakpoint and I noticed a HUGE increase in my WG healing. Yes - I had to watch my mana closely, because I lost nearly 300 spirit in order to do so, but I believe that it was worth it.

I've also found that if you do decide to push the haste above 2005, you're much better suited to cover group heals, as your mastery does not have as much impact as it does if you're only at 920 haste (because the rest of reforging should go to mastery instead of haste). If you're mastery heavy, you should focus on tank healing, IMO.

#17 Angarr

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 04:47 PM

Gear:
Your gems are defensible as you are obviously trying to reach the 2005 haste cap at practically all costs. Despite that I would really recommend you replace 40 Haste gems with 40 intellect as soon as you can. As an aside, if you're just getting started healing 10 man normals it's probably worth a shot to try avoiding the 2005 haste breakpoint and just stacking mastery beyond the 915 Rejuv haste breakpoint.

Also, you almost certainly don't want Hurricane on your weapon. Try Heartsong instead (or power torrent if you can afford it).

WoL:
Looking at your logs two things jump out at me. The first is that you absolutely are not using Swiftmend enough. Swiftmend is one of our most efficient heals and because you don't have Efflorescence you have almost no reason not to use it on cooldown. 7 Swiftmends over the course of V&T as well as only 5 Swiftmends for Halfus is simply not using that spell often enough.

The other bit that jumps out at me is how far apart your healing from Rejuvenation and Wild Growth are. For V&T you were 45.7% Wild Growth and 17.6% Rejuv. Prioritizing 2005 haste as you are doing will almost assuredly put Wild Growth at the top of your breakdown, but 45.7% of your healing really surprises me. For Halfus the difference wasn't so shocking, but it is worth mentioning that you probably want to get more work out of Rejuv. With that said, I want to mention that it's possible you're using these spells correctly. I look at a lot of Resto Druid Logs and I don't believe I've seen Wild Growth that high before. I'm used to seeing WG and Rejuv within a few percent of each other.

Spec:
Nature's Ward is not what you want for PvE. Move those points to Perseverance if you want more survivability. Other than that your spec looks defensible.

#18 Kthx

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 07:46 PM

I have been reviewing logs from our raids and I seem to be pretty high on the overhealing. We typically run 7 healers on all fights, with an extra if needed for heroics. I have been thinking that it would be appropriate to drop a healer, and have considered bringing this up, and I think that the amount of overhealing that I am doing alone warrants this. I picked 4 logs from the past few weeks, and the lowest was about 30%, the highest being 65%. I'm coming here for advice, because there is not very much communication between our healers, and I have the suspicion that I would not likely get much intelligent feedback either.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

If anyone can help me figure out if:
a. I'm doing something wrong to cause this (seemingly) high amount of overhealing
b. This is normal
c. We should drop a healer

I would appreciate any feed back at all.

edited to add: Other than Halfus, I am primarily raid heals, and backing up tank healers (keeping tanks hot'd).

#19 PanisSkullcrusher

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 08:50 PM

I'm trying to decide if points for me (not in general, just for how I heal) are better spent in Living Seed versus Blessing of the Grove. I'd like to describe my methodology here so I go about it in the correct way. Any feedback on that would be appreciated.

My plan is to go back through my logs for the past few weeks and compare the healing done by Rejuv and Living Seed. I'd take the raw healing Rejuv did for that fight and multiply it by .04 to see how much extra healing (the delta) Blessing of the Grove would have done for that fight. I would then take that delta and subtract the over-healing % of Rejuv on that fight to see how much net healing Rejuv would provide. I'd also find the net healing of Living Seed (raw healing of Living Seed less the % over-healed). I would divide the Rejuv net healing by 2 since it takes 2 talent points and the Living Seed net by 3 since I am spec'd into it with 3 talent points. The final numbers would be healing per talent point for that fight.

#20 Sasazuka

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 10:19 PM

Tangedyn has already did something similar here. End result is that both Living Seed (favors tank healing) and Blessing of the Grove doesn't offer all that much.




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