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Shaman: Simple Questions thread reboot -- new kinder gentler rule-7-free zone


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#21 Nayruu

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 10:34 AM

I couldn't find anything about this in the thread, so I'll ask it here:
do we still use fire elemental in combat, or would this be a dps loss compared to the dmgbuff of searing totem ..?

#22 Moshne

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 04:52 PM

Wife has an elemental shaman and is decently geared, but still gearing up. We have done many tests upon rotations, respec, gemming, and so on. I've read a lot on these forums, but there's a lot of debating on whats best and so on so it's kinda hard to pick and choose what to use. If someones a lvl 85 elemental shaman and is hitting high dps, could you please message me with some information on your rotation, stats, and some helpful hints and tips. We've been trying to learn a shaman and want to be led in the right direction. Thanks :)


http://elitistjerks...._a/#post1813016
http://elitistjerks...._a/#post1813017

Those links will answer every basic question you have about elemental.

I couldn't find anything about this in the thread, so I'll ask it here:
do we still use fire elemental in combat, or would this be a dps loss compared to the dmgbuff of searing totem ..?


Yes, use your Fire Elemental. It keeps up the Totemic Wrath buff just like Searing Totem does, and it is a considerable DPS increase over it while it is up.

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#23 Bainato

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 06:21 PM

I couldn't find anything about this in the thread, so I'll ask it here:
do we still use fire elemental in combat, or would this be a dps loss compared to the dmgbuff of searing totem ..?


If you're enhancement you will not use Fire Elemental on single targets. If you're elemental it's your best fire totem.

#24 Venaliter

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:10 PM

What are the modifers for Chain Heal Jumps? The latest information I have is: 71%, 36%, 18%, then 12.5%. I think this was pre-cata. Is it still correct(and the way it works?)

PS: I was surprised to see this not noted in the 1st post of the Resto Shaman guide.

#25 Guest_Amilie_*

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:47 PM

What are the modifers for Chain Heal Jumps? The latest information I have is: 71%, 36%, 18%, then 12.5%. I think this was pre-cata. Is it still correct(and the way it works?)

PS: I was surprised to see this not noted in the 1st post of the Resto Shaman guide.

It's not mentioned because it's very simple to calculate yourself and clearly mentioned in the tooltip: each bounce heals for 30% less than the previous heal, i.e. 70% of the previous heal.

So, non-glyphed, the first bounce heals for 70% of the initial heal, then the second bounce heals for 70% * 70% = 49%, and 34.3% for the last bounce.

With the glyph, the bounces become a bit stronger -- 70% * 115% = 80.5%. So 80.5%, 64.8%, and finally 52.1%.

If you're talking about spell healing modifiers, then the initial heal gets 35% of your spell healing, and the bounces receive a bonus in the same way (70% of the previous heal non-glyphed, 80.5% with glyph). This results in the following spell healing modifiers:

No glyph: 35%, 24.5%, 17.2%, 12% (88.7% total)
With glyph: 31.5%, 25.4%, 20.4%, 16.4% (93.7%)

#26 Velox

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 10:44 PM

Elemental Precision - Spell - World of Warcraft

How exactly does this work for enhancement? It doesn't seem like that 3% damage increase would be all that great. And for the spirit to hit, none of my gear has spirit on it or is that where I screwed up at? I'm new to shamans, so if enhancement used to use spirit way back is it still the way to go even if it's not technically considered enhance gear?

Here's the spec I'm using: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

And another question, according to the enhancement thread I want 17% spell hit and 8% melee hit right? My hit is currently like 14% to get my spell hit up to where it should be, but it's still got a 2.2% chance of missing a raid boss for my spells. If I reforge anymore I'll lose my expertise rating (it's at 26/26).

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Again, I hope this is the right thread, I'm still reading through the enhance thread, but just a few simple questions I had.

#27 khardan

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 11:34 PM

You're on the right track when it comes to stat priorities, however my understanding is that for the most part, hit is better than expertise, albeit slightly, up to the hit cap. My suggestion would be to go ahead and reforge the expertise off into hit if you have to, as it should be slightly better. General rule of thumb for stats, and this applies to reforging (except were agility is concerned, as you cannot reforge that stat) :

Agility > Hit (under spell cap) > Expertise (under cap) > Mastery >> Crit >= Haste > Hit > Intellect = Strength > Spell Power


I also suggest either hitting the hit and expertise caps as close as possible to the actual cap: 1742 for hit, and 541 for expertise (these caps are different of course if you are Dranei or Orc/Dwarf with the correct weapons). Over the caps, other stats (mastery in particular) are better.

edit: I noticed you are a dwarf and as such the cap, with the correct weapons (maces), would be 451.

#28 Ryethe

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 02:39 PM

Elemental Precision - Spell - World of Warcraft

How exactly does this work for enhancement? It doesn't seem like that 3% damage increase would be all that great. And for the spirit to hit, none of my gear has spirit on it or is that where I screwed up at? I'm new to shamans, so if enhancement used to use spirit way back is it still the way to go even if it's not technically considered enhance gear?


To answer this part, you will get 20 spirit from a 20 stat chest enchant. It's not much spell hit, granted, but I couldn't find a better way to spend 3 points.

In case you find the math useful: 3% spell damage is equal to 1.2 mastery (the talent stacks additively with mastery) and there's 179.28004 mastery rating per mastery. 1.2 * 179.28004 / 3 talent points = 71.712016 mastery rating per point.

#29 morkena

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 01:46 PM

From what I'v seen from my own recount and other resto shamans, Ancestral Awakening is a mere 1-2% of our total healing. So is it really still viable to put 3 points into it?

#30 Viggers

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 02:01 PM

The advantage is that it is a 'smart heal' so it will never overheal, the disadvantage is that it is 3 points for a tiny ammount of healing. If you are tank healing it will be a much bigger % than raid healing since healing rain and chain heal do not proc it. I cant say how much it will account for if tank healing though, since i dont use it anymore (im raid healer on all except halfus HC). So my answer would be if your a raid healer, skip it. If your a tank healer - then it could be worth much more, although it still wont help you heal that tank, only help your raid healers.

About the reforging question from Velox - have a look at wowreforge.com. You can enter the stat weights for each stat, as well as say reforge to at least x hit rating and y expertise rating, and it will tell you how to reforge every piece of gear. Its brilliant.

#31 Vice

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 02:30 AM

From what I'v seen from my own recount and other resto shamans, Ancestral Awakening is a mere 1-2% of our total healing. So is it really still viable to put 3 points into it?


It has become encounter specific whether or not this is specced into or not. I'm not going to run down the list of encounters for you, but if you find yourself tank healing more often than raid healing, spec into AA.

#32 Blayneburner

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:46 AM

Alright this one's pretty simple I haven't seen it and if I missed it I am sorry. But When I was running with a guildy today her dps was a lil more than mine and I am usually higher than her and She was using Chain Lightning rather than just LB and it made a 2-3% difference? So I was wondering if anyone had some numbers run on Chain lb over LB

#33 Bainato

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:30 AM

Alright this one's pretty simple I haven't seen it and if I missed it I am sorry. But When I was running with a guildy today her dps was a lil more than mine and I am usually higher than her and She was using Chain Lightning rather than just LB and it made a 2-3% difference? So I was wondering if anyone had some numbers run on Chain lb over LB


Chain Lightning is always a dps loss on a single target for enhancement because it has a lower spell power coefficient than Lighting Bolt due to the difference in cast times. Cast time is irrelevant for enhancement because Maelstrom Weapon gives us instant LBs. You can see the difference in damage by reading the tooltips in-game.

#34 ohcrocsle

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 07:48 PM

Chain Lightning is always a dps loss on a single target for enhancement because it has a lower spell power coefficient than Lighting Bolt due to the difference in cast times. Cast time is irrelevant for enhancement because Maelstrom Weapon gives us instant LBs. You can see the difference in damage by reading the tooltips in-game.


Same is true for elemental. However, if you're elemental and there's 2 or more targets you want to use CL > LB because you get the 2nd (and 3rd) damage hops which proc lightning shield charges. If you're dpsing and never using CL, you could probably improve your damage/play by looking for times when CL would do more damage than LB.

#35 Jessamy

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 08:44 PM

Same is true for elemental. However, if you're elemental and there's 2 or more targets you want to use CL > LB because you get the 2nd (and 3rd) damage hops which proc lightning shield charges. If you're dpsing and never using CL, you could probably improve your damage/play by looking for times when CL would do more damage than LB.

The damage-per-cast-time for LB and CL are about the same for single target. For enhancement, both spells are instant cast with Maelstrom, so you use LB since it's bigger and the slower cast time is irrelevant. For elemental, you use LB since all the nice things that can proc from LB and CL have a reduced chance to proc per target for CL. (Elemental Overload, Rolling Thunder, and Feedback.) When you account for those effects, CL becomes inferior for single target.

Multiple targets don't allow you to build lightning shield charges faster, as all they do is offset the lower proc chance per target of CL. The reason to use CL with multiple targets is more obvious than that -- you're hitting more targets with lightning damage.

#36 mobosh

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 02:27 PM

i dont see another forum where this question would be more suitable. thought about puting in a forum for one of the classes that procs replenishment but which would i chose? ill just post it in my own calss forum.

Q: does replenishment recalculate for each tick?
im asking this in regards to whether to pick power torrent or heartsong as it will have quite an impact on the regen supplied by power torrent.

#37 ohcrocsle

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 01:57 AM

The damage-per-cast-time for LB and CL are about the same for single target. For enhancement, both spells are instant cast with Maelstrom, so you use LB since it's bigger and the slower cast time is irrelevant. For elemental, you use LB since all the nice things that can proc from LB and CL have a reduced chance to proc per target for CL. (Elemental Overload, Rolling Thunder, and Feedback.) When you account for those effects, CL becomes inferior for single target.

Multiple targets don't allow you to build lightning shield charges faster, as all they do is offset the lower proc chance per target of CL. The reason to use CL with multiple targets is more obvious than that -- you're hitting more targets with lightning damage.


You're right that CL does more damage than LB when it hits 2+ targets. I used poor wording to answer that question because I was aware that in 2+ target situations using CL can be (if you're maximizing the extra LS charges) a single target DPS increase due to RT/fulmination. CL procs Rolling Thunder at a rate of 60% per target hit.

#38 Krutsik

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:36 AM

Q: does replenishment recalculate for each tick?


No it does not. It does, however, recalculate if the buff is reapplied before the previous one expires.

#39 Wrathson

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 03:37 PM

About the enhancement rotation, i've been having around 15k dps with 358 iLevel. What may be wrong with the rotation?

I think i've done it all right, with the exceptions of the Shock spells. Sometimes i cast the Fire Shock without the Unleash Elements buff, or i don't have time to "clip" the DoT because of Earth Shock.

Also, i want to know more about the skill priority. I know how it is, but if there's something to add into it, i wish to know.

#40 Imadraenei

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 05:40 PM

Sometimes i cast the Fire Shock without the Unleash Elements buff, or i don't have time to "clip" the DoT because of Earth Shock.


If you can't cast Flame Shock with Unleash Fire, it's not worth the Shock cooldown. Earth Shock with the Stormstrike debuff is a better option until your UE comes off cooldown.
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