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[Cataclysm] Mage Simple Questions and Answers (Read the First Post)


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#21 Intermission

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 01:42 AM

For Heroic Chogal (10man), I use the following cooldowns:

IB (also removes tentacle debuff)
Pain Sup
Barrier
Aura Mastery + Hand of Sacrifice
Spirit Link Totem (this makes the whole thing super easy).
Pain Sup / Aura Mastery / Hand of Sacrifice probably up by now.

To be honest, if you have Spirit Link totem, you can be sloppy with your cooldown use and still live to P2. Without Spirit Link I have still lived to P2, but it required every Shadow AoE to be properly reduced by a cooldown, and for weaker cooldowns to be merged together.

Also be sure to use Mirror of Broken Images and use it every Shadow AoE available, or combine it with weaker cooldowns.

#22 Moonfaxx

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 05:24 PM

As a fire mage, at what level of haste is it considered optimal to make changes to the standard rotation? For example, if we experience a 0.9-second cast time on Fireball, is that far enough below the 1-second GCD floor to merit hard-casting Pyroblast instead? Likewise, at what point is it best to leave Living Bomb out of the rotation?

Edit: Another interesting study would be to determine at similar levels of gear and extreme levels of haste (eg. Sinestra) the point at which the fire spec becomes preferable to arcane in single-target situations.

#23 Aestis

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 01:17 AM

As a fire mage, at what level of haste is it considered optimal to make changes to the standard rotation? For example, if we experience a 0.9-second cast time on Fireball, is that far enough below the 1-second GCD floor to merit hard-casting Pyroblast instead? Likewise, at what point is it best to leave Living Bomb out of the rotation?

Edit: Another interesting study would be to determine at similar levels of gear and extreme levels of haste (eg. Sinestra) the point at which the fire spec becomes preferable to arcane in single-target situations.


I believe this would be as simple as recording your exact cast time (say, 0.92s for Fireball), multiplying its Simcrafted DPET*0.92 (to account for the lost time under the hard GCD cap), and comparing to the DPET of the direct damage portion of a hard-cast Pyroblast, plus the appropriate DPET of Pyroblast DoT ticks. The DoT portion might be low due to the constant DoT refreshing (3.0s minus haste modifiers) versus quick cast time (sub-2s). The Pyro DoT might only be allowed to tick during LB refreshes (also questionably useful, as they're sub-GCD with extreme haste too) or other instants.

Edit: Sorry if that wasn't definitive; I'll do some math and hopefully get back to you soon.
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#24 Malcophant

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 04:19 AM

I believe this would be as simple as recording your exact cast time (say, 0.92s for Fireball), multiplying its Simcrafted DPET*0.92 (to account for the lost time under the hard GCD cap), and comparing to the DPET of the direct damage portion of a hard-cast Pyroblast, plus the appropriate DPET of Pyroblast DoT ticks. The DoT portion might be low due to the constant DoT refreshing (3.0s minus haste modifiers) versus quick cast time (sub-2s). The Pyro DoT might only be allowed to tick during LB refreshes (also questionably useful, as they're sub-GCD with extreme haste too) or other instants.

Edit: Sorry if that wasn't definitive; I'll do some math and hopefully get back to you soon.


Note that due to the new nature of DoTs in cataclysm, the pyro dot will continue to tick, even if constantly refreshed. Your point isn't invalid, but the DoT damage isn't reduced by it being refreshed.

#25 Aestis

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 05:29 AM

Note that due to the new nature of DoTs in cataclysm, the pyro dot will continue to tick, even if constantly refreshed. Your point isn't invalid, but the DoT damage isn't reduced by it being refreshed.


Your point about the refreshing is true; however, the DoT damage would in fact be a lesser contributing factor because instead of ticking for the usual period between Hot Streaks (say, 6 seconds) the DoTs would not stack and would each tick for under 2 seconds, or the time it takes to hard-cast a Pyro while hasted. I'll update this post in the morning with a SimCraft output using the appropriate action list.
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#26 Ivanoize

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 08:42 AM

I've read the compendium and there says I've to use the Flame Orb to regenerate mana because the high rate of AM procs, but I'm asking my self after reading some WoL and notice the majority of Arcane Mages are using it in the opening of the fight and on cooldown, my question is, is this real worth to use on cooldown for a dps gain?

#27 Intermission

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 09:32 PM

Use it conditionally. For a stand and nuke fight, use Flame Orb on CD for extra damage. However some fights call for small burst periods, or other reasons why your mana might drop. In these scenarios, if your Flame Orb CD is about ready, you might as well use it to get you from 70% mana back to 95% quicker than you otherwise would be able to.

Example of times when you drop below 95% mana during a non-burn phase and a Flame Orb can help you out:
Ignacious shield - you want to land a few 4stack AB's on him.
Rohash storm shield - " "
Periods of sustained burst, regardless of Evoc cooldown. For example Nefarion achievement: you are probably going to do a full burn, Evocate, then a full burn again. Now you've completed the 50% landing, but you're oom and 1:30 from an Evocate. Flame Orb can help you get some mana back.

#28 nathanrael

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 09:34 PM

I've read the compendium and there says I've to use the Flame Orb to regenerate mana because the high rate of AM procs, but I'm asking my self after reading some WoL and notice the majority of Arcane Mages are using it in the opening of the fight and on cooldown, my question is, is this real worth to use on cooldown for a dps gain?


Yes. Flame Orb has the highest DPET of any of our spells (highest DPM as well, possibly), so it's worth using every time it's off of its cooldown.

#29 Guest_AceRider_*

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 09:00 AM

Looking at the latest 4.2 patch notes (Here) the only mention of spell steal is a 100% mana cost. Does this mean they have removed the 6 second cooldown or is this on top of that and they simply didn't mention it?

#30 Traeumer

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 02:40 PM

Looking at the latest 4.2 patch notes (Here) the only mention of spell steal is a 100% mana cost. Does this mean they have removed the 6 second cooldown or is this on top of that and they simply didn't mention it?


Yes, they undid the 6sec-cooldown-change (in build 14179).

#31 MaddHawk

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 10:49 PM

There used to be a mage general information thread. This thread covered mage basics that was common to all specs and had other additional useful information in the first post such as what classes shared similar buff effects and similar debuff effects. With it gone from the mage subsection I looked about for an archived threads place yet didn't see one. So my question is, what other classes put up a Critical Mass type effect on targets and what spell/ability do they have that does this?
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#32 Nfariessence

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 11:29 PM

what other classes put up a Critical Mass type effect on targets and what spell/ability do they have that does this?


Go here MMO-Champion RaidComp and hover over Debuffs > Spell Critical Strike Chance and you'll see that Mages provide it with Critical Mass and Warlocks provide it with Shadow and Flame.

#33 Ivanoize

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 04:18 PM

Which is the best way to interpret the simc results to apply them into my reforges/gems/enchants? I was analyzing the scale factors and then reforging into the better stat presented there.

#34 Lurama

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 07:34 PM

Which is the best way to interpret the simc results to apply them into my reforges/gems/enchants? I was analyzing the scale factors and then reforging into the better stat presented there.


I personally prefer to use RAWR to evaluate these changes and upgrades. But yes, generally reforge from the lesser stat to the higher weighted stat. I've also found WoW Reforge Calculator & Optimizer to be handy with this. Just input your stat weight and give it guidelines and click go. You can do it without guidelines as well.

#35 fateswarm

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 07:53 AM

If the goal is to be final users of a setup and we're not doing any special research, it is highly problematic to start with SimCraft and follow with Rawr. We should start from Rawr and ideally verify with SimCraft. This is because SimCraft can not simultaneously simulate with all the items we have available, with all the available combinations on them (gems, reforges, enchants). It will require a lot of trial and error to find the outcomes with every single item and stat combination that are available.

On top of that, one may fall into a trap: the game is not simple; if one is not aware of certain "soft caps" or other similar conditions, merely stacking a stat on Rawr without using the Optimization tool or starting with a Simulator by merely stacking a stat, there may appear to be an impressive DPS increase roadmap. However, that may be a false positive since reaching - or surpassing - a so called "soft cap" or other similar condition may produce an abruptly different outcome.

#36 Wizeowel

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 01:03 PM

There used to be a mage general information thread. This thread covered mage basics that was common to all specs and had other additional useful information in the first post such as what classes shared similar buff effects and similar debuff effects. With it gone from the mage subsection I looked about for an archived threads place yet didn't see one...


As the bottom of the Mage subsection of the forum there is a part named "Display Options". Find the dropdown named "From The" and select "Beginning" to see all the posts ever made in the mage section. I would normally PM such information, but I have a feeling there are other readers who didn't realise the wealth of information and discussion that is available.

#37 ItaliaPerSempre

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 03:31 PM

I've been using Rawr for quite a while now and on my last run of it, it has started leaving my hit at 15%. I always make sure I have the hit rating set at > 17 and until now it's always done a perfect job at making sure my hit stays at or very close to or even just a hair above 17%. I was just wondering if something within Rawr changed, or is this an error on my part, etc.

#38 Katalyn34

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:29 PM

My mage has 1746 hit rating (so the tooltip estimates my chance to miss raid bosses at 0%). Why have I seen misses from my living bomb on trash mobs in 5 mans?

(I searched the other threads for 'miss' and didn't see any discussion of this topic).

#39 Wizeowel

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 05:31 PM

My mage has 1746 hit rating (so the tooltip estimates my chance to miss raid bosses at 0%). Why have I seen misses from my living bomb on trash mobs in 5 mans?

(I searched the other threads for 'miss' and didn't see any discussion of this topic).


Which instance? Can you remember the name of the mobs?

#40 Shaitans

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:47 AM

My mage has 1746 hit rating (so the tooltip estimates my chance to miss raid bosses at 0%). Why have I seen misses from my living bomb on trash mobs in 5 mans?

(I searched the other threads for 'miss' and didn't see any discussion of this topic).


If you are still seeing misses despite being at hit cap, then the only reason (because we no longer have to rely on other classes placing a debuff on the boss) is that you are under the effect of a debuff which decreases your hit chance or the mob itself has a buff which reduces the hit chance of players.




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