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#21 Hildegard

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:17 PM

As far as learning something goes - I agree. But once someone masters something he will not need a lot of time to outperform a recruit, that spends his whole time training. I am not writing about learning and later mastering one's play and teamplay. What I am writing about is the time needed to spend outside of that. Farming bosses after progression is over, farming bosses that have been downed multiple times or doing rated bgs as an arena player. This of course does not change the social game.
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#22 JamesVZ

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 05:42 PM

Farming bosses after progression is over is not some sort of punishment. I don't know why you keep pushing it out there like it is.
They got that 40 man...40 man, ooh, ooh, ooh. And all I wanna do is raid it.

#23 Hildegard

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:02 PM

That depends on personality. For me for example bosses I have killed are close the boring the second time around and annoying from the third time on.
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#24 JamesVZ

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 06:23 PM

Then maybe raiding isn't for you, and you really should stick to things like the Arena or Battlegrounds. Just don't be surprised when Blizzard looks at the investment required for a particular reward and makes adjustments according to what they think it should be.
They got that 40 man...40 man, ooh, ooh, ooh. And all I wanna do is raid it.

#25 ildon

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:18 PM

I had thought the 4.0.3/4.0.6 disparity in time investment vs. reward between PvP and PvE were fine, due to the huge increase in the value of resilience for PvP relative to other stats, and the relative item level of the gear involved. The one outlier would be the 372 PvP weapons, but those felt like a "necessary evil" to me to reduce bleed-over between the game types. I also don't really feel like getting the 372 PvP weapons was "easy enough" that players would feel obligated to do it for PvE reasons, or at least those who did would have to PvP on a high enough level that they likely had to enjoy PvP somewhat to reach that level.

The faster players gear up in PvP, the faster they reach an even playing field where skill is the primary factor in an encounter. The end-game for PvP is a situation based on pure skill vs. skill. There is no comparison in PvE, really. In PvE, gear is a reward and a stepping stone to help make content more tiered and to enable lower skilled players to eventually overpower an encounter they previously could not defeat using skill alone. If anything, PvE encounters start out as more skill based, and the required skill level slowly descends over time.

Obviously Blizzard did not agree, and felt that the time investment between the modes needed more parity, and felt they could more strongly incentivize RBGs (using the stick instead of the carrot) at the same time. The 4.2 conquest point changes help reinforce this, I think, even further forcing people to do at least a couple RBGs to cap points (or maybe to force more RBG players into arena? Although based on anecdotal participation numbers this seems unlikely).

I do agree with James, though, that if you can't stomach killing a boss more than once, then raiding simply is not for you. That's not what that gameplay is built around, and it's not a sustainable model for content generation.

#26 Hildegard

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:53 PM

Yes, the raiding game is not for me, no doubt. I thought however that the amount of players that felt that the game is to time consuming in order to be able to participate in raiding and that it would be time to go away from the paradigma of spending time collecting stuff (gear, points, consumeables) and move to a "I do, what I like and not what the game forces me to do". I was wrong. For PVP the point still stands, but the EJ forum is probably not the right place to discuss this.
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#27 Nurru

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 08:18 PM

You already have 10 man normal modes for people who don't want to put forth time, effort, points and consumables.

#28 Kytrarewn

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 08:22 PM

There are plenty of single player games, and indeed small group coop games, that offer hours of gameplay of "one time only" boss encounters for the low price of 2 month's subscription to World of Warcraft.

Perhaps you might find one of those more enjoyable.
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#29 Hildegard

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 08:47 PM

Guys I get it. I do not want to raid, no tips needed. I simply thought we have a common issue, which obviously is not the case. This thread should be closed now before more stating the obvious occurs.
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