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BIS DPS Warrior Discussion


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#21 Nodokk

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 09:22 PM

From what I gather the actual benefit of Apparatus is supposed to be 1530, going by what the tooltip states, but it is actually being applied as 2540. If 2540 turns out to be a mistake than is that trinket essentially worthless compared to virtually any trinket from T11?

Also, can someone explain the math behind H HoR still being BiS? Is it simply a matter of there not being any other trinkets that are as good as that?

#22 Runtime

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 05:19 AM

Confirmed that the apparatus was granting 2540 crit on normal and so I am assuming this is the same for the heroic version so I added that back. I also changed the belt for SMF since they don't like mastery as much as TG and so the tank belt wont be as good.

#23 Bickins

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 08:33 AM

From Sapperwix in the "4.2 Known Issues" thread, regarding the Apparatus of Khaz'goroth's proc:

Some trinkets received in Firelands (Apparatus of Khaz'goroth, Necromantic Focus, Vessel of Acceleration, and Matrix Restabilizer) are displaying incorrect stat values in their buff and item tooltips, the values applied are correct.


So if what everyone has said regarding the tooltip / buff vs. the actual stat change, Blizz is officially confirming it is indeed supposed to be 2540.

#24 Quiks

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 08:09 AM

by the way, after some testing with Apparatus of Khaz'goroth raging blow does NOT give you a stack of titanic power which will make getting the initial 5 stacks in a fight really annoying if you want to line up cds early. I really dislike that it allows you to use it with less than the maximum stacks as well. These trinkets are getting more and more annoying with min/max.

#25 Elmor

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 04:08 PM

Asuming that crit is our highest stat, Apparatus of Khaz'goroth becomes the "second" Recklessness. You could align Recklessness with the 1st Colossus Strike during Death Wish, and then use Apparatus for the 2nd CS.

#26 Quiks

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 08:58 PM

Elmor, that does seem to be the best decision as when deathwish comes up it will almost align with the trinket

#27 irradicator

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 11:35 PM

I think TG would also prefer Cinch of the Flaming Ember. As it stands the stat prios for TG are currently Str>Crit>Hit>Mastery Haste. So the Exp on that belt assigned to TG currently is all wasted and reforge material, whilst using the Cinch will give you more strength and the 2 best secondary stats for TG.

#28 Runtime

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 02:44 AM

That is the simplified stat priorities. If you run a SimC Hit and Mastery go back and forth depending on your current stats. And If you look at several of the top fury warriors (Landsoul and Mov on black dragonflight for example) they are all stacking mastery over hit. As for Exp, It is of higher importance than crit. You have to be at Exp cap and Hit Special cap before pursuing any of the other stats.

#29 Pigfat

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 02:38 PM

Quick question:

I was wondering if the warriors with better gear take "mastery" over "hit" because they get so much "hit" from gear that they are over the 8% soft cap and end up still having like 12% "hit" even when all their gear is reforged to "mastery".

OR

If they reforge everything to "mastery" and manage to keep their "hit" at the 8% hit soft cap?



This being said, I am asking this question to know if the reason we would take "mastery" over "hit" is that "mastery" scales exponentialy with "AP" and "crit" or if it is because "hit" loses its effeciency as rage generation becomes more abundant when taking damage in raids and with unwanted "haste" gains that we can't avoid due to gear.

#30 Runtime

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 08:35 PM

It appears that chardev isnt updating anytime soon so im in the process of looking for an alternative gear profiler

#31 irradicator

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:58 PM

[quote name='Runtime']If you look at several of the top fury warriors (Landsoul and Mov on black dragonflight for example) they are all stacking mastery over hit.[QUOTE]
If you look at several of the other top fury warriors (Verd�*sha of Paragon and Xandrah of Method for example) you will see that in their TG builds they prefer to stack Hit over Mastery. Now you mentioned that this is very dependent on the level of your gear, the stat distribution for TG remains unchanged since the introduction of 4.2 and seeing as the status quo at the end of 4.1 was Hit over Mastery among those in BiS gear, then I would imagine that this being a BiS list would value Hit over Mastery, thus making the 358 rep belt better than the HC tanking belt off of Shannox.

#32 Runtime

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 01:51 AM

Finally got around to running some simulations and im getting higher dps results with the high mastery build with . It is very close between the two (~120dps) like I expected because hit and mastery are very close.

#33 Nimchip

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 07:11 AM

Is there any way we could look into your simulations? I seem to be getting 34356 dps with the standard warrior_fury_2h_t12h in SimC which is a high hit build and uses HoR instead of Apparatus and obviously Cinch - in 10k iterations. What am I missing here?

Weird enough what's reported on the SimC site is 33620 dps which is still higher than your highest dps build. I'm sure I'm forgetting something but still worth indicating.

Edit: I get 33829dps replacing HoR with Apparatus. Still working with the high hit SimC build.

#34 Runtime

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 04:14 PM

Im not sure if the loaded version of the apparatus proc is functional and if it is, if based off the tooltip which is incorrect or the correct version. If someone who is on the project could clarify that would be wonderful. Heroic apparatus should be better than heroic heart of rage. I can post the gear list i had entered to let anyone look over it.

One thing to note is that SimC results have gear that doesnt exist. (heroic versions of the rep belt and cloak)

Heavy Mastery
head=greathelm_of_the_voracious_maw,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=3057armor_400str_689sta_320mastery_224crit,gems=reverberating_shadowspirit_20str_20hit_30str,enchant=60str_35mastery
neck=necklace_of_fetishes,heroic=1,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=256str_384sta_188crit_142hit
shoulders=pauldrons_of_the_molten_giant,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=2822armor_322str_513sta_223crit_210haste,reforge=haste_mastery,gems=40str,enchant=50str_25crit
chest=battleplate_of_the_molten_giant,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=3762armor_420str_689sta_297crit_263hit,gems=20str_20crit_20str_20crit_20str,enchant=20all
waist=uncrushable_belt_of_fury,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=2116armor_322str_513sta_153exp_359mastery,reforge=mastery_crit,gems=40str_40str
legs=legplates_of_the_molten_giant,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=3292armor_420str_689sta_316exp_251crit,gems=40str_40str_20str,enchant=190ap_55crit
feet=arachnaflame_treads,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=2586armor_322str_513sta_228crit_208haste,reforge=haste_mastery,gems=40str_10str,enchant=35mastery
wrists=earthcrack_bracers,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=1646armor_256str_384sta_158haste_178crit,reforge=haste_mastery,gems=40str,enchant=50str
hands=gauntlets_of_the_molten_giant,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=2351armor_322str_513sta_209hit_227mastery,reforge=mastery_crit,gems=20str_20crit_40str_10str,enchant=50str
finger1=alysrazor's_band,heroic=1,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=256str_384sta_124haste_171exp,reforge=exp_crit,gems=40str
finger2=obsidian_signet_of_the_avengers,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=236str_384sta_195crit_110hit,gems=40str_10str
trinket1=appparatus_of_Khaz'goroth,heroic=1,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=433str
trinket2=vessel_of_acceleration,heroic=1,ilevel=397,quality=epic,stats=458str,equip=onattackhit_87crit_5stack_20dur
back=bladed_flamewrath_cover,heroic=1,ilevel=378,quality=epic,stats=695armor_227str_341sta_173haste_115exp,reforge=haste_crit,enchant=65crit
main_hand=sulfuras_the_extinguished_hand,heroic=1,ilevel=397,quality=epic,stats=446str_730sta_333crit_262mastery,gems=40str_40str_20str,enchant=landslide,weapon=mace2h_3.80speed_2700min_4050max
off_hand=sulfuras_the_extinguished_hand,heroic=1,ilevel=397,quality=epic,stats=446str_730sta_333crit_262mastery,gems=40str_40str_20str,enchant=landslide,weapon=mace2h_3.80speed_2700min_4050max
ranged=giantslicer,heroic=1,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=145str_217sta_92exp_99hit,reforge=hit_crit,weapon=thrown_2.10speed_1410min_2116max
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=6777
# gear_agility=123
# gear_stamina=7846
# gear_intellect=37
# gear_spirit=63
# gear_attack_power=190
# gear_expertise_rating=779
# gear_hit_rating=725
# gear_crit_rating=2655
# gear_haste_rating=873
# gear_mastery_rating=1289
# gear_armor=22573
# meta_gem=reverberating_shadowspirit
# tier12_2pc_melee=1
# tier12_4pc_melee=1
# main_hand=sulfuras_the_extinguished_hand,heroic=1,weapon=mace2h_3.80speed_2700min_4050max,enchant=landslide
# off_hand=sulfuras_the_extinguished_hand,heroic=1,weapon=mace2h_3.80speed_2700min_4050max,enchant=landslide
# ranged=giantslicer,heroic=1,weapon=thrown_2.10speed_1410min_2116max

Heavy Hit
head=greathelm_of_the_voracious_maw,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=3057armor_400str_689sta_320mastery_224crit,reforge=mastery_exp,gems=reverberating_shadowspirit_20str_20hit_30str,enchant=60str_35mastery
neck=necklace_of_fetishes,heroic=1,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=256str_384sta_188crit_142hit
shoulders=pauldrons_of_the_molten_giant,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=2822armor_322str_513sta_223crit_210haste,reforge=haste_hit,gems=40str,enchant=50str_25crit
chest=battleplate_of_the_molten_giant,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=3762armor_420str_689sta_297crit_263hit,gems=20str_20crit_20str_20crit_20str,enchant=20all
waist=cinch_of_the_flaming_ember,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=2116armor_322str_513sta_133hit_230crit,gems=20str_20hit_40str_10str
legs=legplates_of_the_molten_giant,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=3292armor_420str_689sta_316exp_251crit,gems=40str_40str_20str,enchant=190ap_55crit
feet=arachnaflame_treads,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=2586armor_322str_513sta_228crit_208haste,reforge=haste_hit,gems=40str_10str,enchant=35mastery
wrists=earthcrack_bracers,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=1646armor_256str_384sta_158haste_178crit,reforge=haste_hit,gems=40str,enchant=50str
hands=gauntlets_of_the_molten_giant,heroic=1,type=plate,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=2351armor_322str_513sta_209hit_227mastery,reforge=mastery_crit,gems=20str_20crit_40str_10str,enchant=50str
finger1=alysrazor's_band,heroic=1,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=256str_384sta_124haste_171exp,reforge=haste_crit,gems=40str_10str
finger2=obsidian_signet_of_the_avengers,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=236str_384sta_195crit_110hit,gems=40str_10str
trinket1=appparatus_of_Khaz'goroth,heroic=1,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=433str
trinket2=vessel_of_acceleration,heroic=1,ilevel=397,quality=epic,stats=458str
back=bladed_flamewrath_cover,heroic=1,ilevel=378,quality=epic,stats=695armor_227str_341sta_173haste_115exp,reforge=haste_crit,enchant=65crit
main_hand=sulfuras_the_extinguished_hand,heroic=1,ilevel=397,quality=epic,stats=446str_730sta_333crit_262mastery,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=40str_40str_20str,enchant=landslide,weapon=mace2h_3.80speed_2700min_4050max
off_hand=sulfuras_the_extinguished_hand,heroic=1,ilevel=397,quality=epic,stats=446str_730sta_333crit_262mastery,reforge=mastery_hit,gems=40str_40str_20str,enchant=landslide,weapon=mace2h_3.80speed_2700min_4050max
ranged=giantslicer,heroic=1,ilevel=391,quality=epic,stats=145str_217sta_92exp_99hit,reforge=exp_crit,weapon=thrown_2.10speed_1410min_2116max
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=6809
# gear_agility=123
# gear_stamina=7787
# gear_intellect=37
# gear_spirit=63
# gear_attack_power=190
# gear_expertise_rating=786
# gear_hit_rating=996
# gear_crit_rating=2885
# gear_haste_rating=873
# gear_mastery_rating=357
# gear_armor=22494
# meta_gem=reverberating_shadowspirit
# tier12_2pc_melee=1
# tier12_4pc_melee=1
# main_hand=sulfuras_the_extinguished_hand,heroic=1,weapon=mace2h_3.80speed_2700min_4050max,enchant=landslide
# off_hand=sulfuras_the_extinguished_hand,heroic=1,weapon=mace2h_3.80speed_2700min_4050max,enchant=landslide
# ranged=giantslicer,heroic=1,weapon=thrown_2.10speed_1410min_2116max

Edit I just realized in the code that there are JC gems in there though my calculations at the bottom count them as 40 str gems. I just removed them

#35 Nimchip

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 06:24 PM

You're right, there are JC gems in the default SimC builds also, but I thought the bottom count doesn't do anything since they are comments (i.e. #). I'm kind of a rookie with SimC so I might be wrong there.

My tests with your setup:

Heavy mastery: 33225 dps
Heavy mastery with HoR instead of Apparatus: 33587 dps
Heavy hit: 33119 dps
Heavey hit with HoR instead of Apparatus: 33460 dps


Either SimC does not model Apparatus well or HoR is a dps increase over it. Wouldn't surprise me as it is straight STR. Curious about other stuff so I guess I'll run some more tests later today. At least I got almost the same dps as you (give or take 100dps).

#36 Baneaver

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:29 AM

Was doing some gear observations on WoWhead for arms was wondering if my BiS List Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft is accurate or not

#37 FearMeMortals

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 02:00 AM

My simulations for SMF are 32711 which is about what I would expect when you compare it to a TG BiS with weapons half a tier higher. My simulations for TG come out at around 33800 (33805 mean)

My simulation with (H) HoR instead of (H) Apparatus for SMF was lower @ 32391DPS

#38 Fjeenzy

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:55 AM

Is the (Earthshaker 372-version) even taken into consideration? I have a hard time seeing how can be better.

For both SMF and hit-heavy TG.

#39 aylene

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 03:26 AM

Is the (Earthshaker 372-version) even taken into consideration? I have a hard time seeing how can be better.

For both SMF and hit-heavy TG.


I think some people are either confused or simply lazy when including the as the best cloak. The confusion probably stems from the ptr builds, where there was a datamined, upgraded 391 version of it (, this one), that currently does not exist in the live build. I'm not certain where it went, it might be an additional reward when hitting exalted.

The 378 version of is indeed worse than the 372 Cloudburst Earthshaker suffix cloak in most setups.

#40 Badabigboom

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:53 PM

I don't think that it's lazyness at all, personally I haven't killed the boss that drops those cloaks. Even if you manage to kill him, waiting for the right cloak to drop is another story all together. Those items with the random stats was a little stupid anyways, but thats just my personal feeling about those kinds of drops. Either way, the rep cloak is a really nice upgrade if you don't have anything better than a 359.




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