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[Enhancement] 4.2 - Someone Spilled Spells all over this Axe


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#21 Staticus

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 03:36 PM

Yes it can, I've been using a spare weapon with RB to call them down.

#22 Brazos

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 07:06 AM

I've been running many sims on different gear and priority lists recently and I am finding SS > LL in all of my cases. I show this for 4pT11, 2pT11 + 2pT12, and 4pT12. I presume this is the case since if you have LL > SS you can wind up losing a lot of SS compared to SS > LL you don't lose as many LL.

For my current gear, my SS ppm will increase by 4.7% while LL ppm decreases by 2.2% with SS > LL. The dps from these abilities alone don't justify the change to SS > LL. I think that what is driving this is the increased ppm of a lot of our passive damage abilities like WF, FT and trinket procs plus the buff that SS has received. I am also seeing a ppm increase in ES (no reverberation) and UE. I presume this is due to having more free gcd space to execute lower priority abilities.

Edit:
With LL > SS, often times the cd of these abilities will synchronize SS to LL with latency modeled since they are only 2 seconds apart and the gcd is 1.5 seconds without haste effects so that by the time SS is coming off of cd so is LL. By making SS > LL you effectively reduce the frequency that these two abilities are coupled together thus freeing up space for the lower priority abilities (UE, ES).

As an example, this is the list I am currently using for max dps:
ST_0
SS
LL
FS_UEF
MW5_LB
UE
SW
MW4_LB
ES
MW3_LB
ST (<=5 ticks)
MW2_LB

200-400ms Reaction Time

EDIT: Didn't realize this was already changed in the OP. I never saw a discussion of this though so perhaps this post still has merit. (Doh!)

#23 protocol9

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Posted 10 July 2011 - 03:26 AM

The eye of purification just dropped for me, and i didn't realize its dps and damage had been nerfed from what was last posted on MMO-Champion. Were the previous theorycrafting numbers based on its actual dps/damage of 275.9/463-861, or the reported dps equivalent to agi weapons?

#24 Althor

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:19 PM

The eye of purification just dropped for me, and i didn't realize its dps and damage had been nerfed from what was last posted on MMO-Champion. Were the previous theorycrafting numbers based on its actual dps/damage of 275.9/463-861, or the reported dps equivalent to agi weapons?


db.mmo-champion gets a lot of weapon damage ranges wrong. Wowhead is a lot closer (it's only off by 1 on the upper damage range).
SimulationCraft's damage ranges match what the Armory and in-game says. So yes, our theorycrafting uses the lower damage range.

#25 SentinelBorg

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:12 AM

Yes it can, I've been using a spare weapon with RB to call them down.

Shouldn't switching the weapon enchant on your mainhand weapon be the better way? Switching to a spare weapon and back costs you two full length melee global cooldowns and interrupts your swing timer, while switching only the weapon enchant to RB and back should only use up two reduced length caster global cooldowns and shouldn't interrupt your swing timer. I for example use a castsequence macro for that taunt: RB -> UE -> WF

#26 Stopokingme

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 02:27 PM

Shouldn't switching the weapon enchant on your mainhand weapon be the better way? Switching to a spare weapon and back costs you two full length melee global cooldowns and interrupts your swing timer, while switching only the weapon enchant to RB and back should only use up two reduced length caster global cooldowns and shouldn't interrupt your swing timer. I for example use a castsequence macro for that taunt: RB -> UE -> WF


Weapon swapping actually costs less time, since you can swap in your weapon with Windfury on it while you're still waiting on the global cooldown from casting Unleash Elements, making it effectively cost you only 3 seconds. And considering you're waiting for the spiders to actually drop down, resetting the swing timer is rather moot.
Enchantment?

#27 Weerarah

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 12:12 AM

To get back to theorycrafting outside of simulated numbers.

If you cast a flame shock with the UE buff and then add duration with call of flame fire nova the damage bonus goes away.


I noticed this. I also noted that if you have multiple flame shocks up and UE a Fire Nova it buffs the dot damage on all targets hit by the nova.

#28 Myranne

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 07:25 AM

I've been looking at your priority list for dps, and I've noticed that in this you don't list lava burst. Been doing some research to make sure I still play enhance properly but I'm seeing a lot of simulated dps charts where they use lava burst in their rotation while using the Eye of Purification drop. Is there any set data on this as I am finding it hard to find any.

#29 Sengiratolom

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 08:09 AM

Here is a log of me using EoP.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I often tried to "double dip" the UEF buff by casting LvB and then FS right after so both got the damage buff.

ST_0
LL
SS
LB_MW5
LvB+FS_UEF (if possible, FS_UEF otherwise)
UE
LB_MW3+
ES
LvB
SW
ST<5

That was my intended priority list, halfway through the kill my phone started ringing so I got a bit distracted and made some mistakes.

Hopefully this is useful for your calculations.

#30 Burka

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 10:00 AM

I often tried to "double dip" the UEF buff by casting LvB and then FS right after so both got the damage buff.

How can you use same Unleash Flame buff for LvB and FS at the same time if its fade after using 1 spell?

#31 Sengiratolom

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 12:22 PM

To my understanding, the buff fades when you do damage with a spell, and the buff gets applied to any fire spell cast while it is active, LvB has a travel time (even when you stand behind the boss it wont hit instantly), so if you FS right away, the LvB still is cast while you have UEF active, hence gets the bonus, but the buff gets consumed by the FS (that hits instantly) and as such hits before LvB does.

If my understanding of it is wrong, please say so, but from my experience, the LvBs cast this way did do more damage even though they hit after the buff faded.

#32 Cochice

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 01:38 PM

I've been looking at your priority list for dps, and I've noticed that in this you don't list lava burst. Been doing some research to make sure I still play enhance properly but I'm seeing a lot of simulated dps charts where they use lava burst in their rotation while using the Eye of Purification drop. Is there any set data on this as I am finding it hard to find any.


From the OP:

Here is what a level 85 priority queue might look like. Sim your setup to find an optimal list. Don't be afraid to mess with MW5_4/3!

It is not going to reflect the newest, most experimental rotation


As the priority lists change depending on what gear setup the player will use, there is not a priority for all players to adhere to (and there never will be thanks to the dynamics of shaman mechanics). The BiS thread should have priorities listed for both gear setups coming soon (from the looks of it).

#33 SentinelBorg

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 01:55 PM

To my understanding, the buff fades when you do damage with a spell, and the buff gets applied to any fire spell cast while it is active, LvB has a travel time (even when you stand behind the boss it wont hit instantly), so if you FS right away, the LvB still is cast while you have UEF active, hence gets the bonus, but the buff gets consumed by the FS (that hits instantly) and as such hits before LvB does.

If my understanding of it is wrong, please say so, but from my experience, the LvBs cast this way did do more damage even though they hit after the buff faded.

No, you are correct, it works like that and it doesn't even have anything to do with the travel time of LvB, because as Restoration you can do the same trick with Unleash Life, casting a direct heal and queing in Riptide directly after that.

It would be nice to have support for that in Shock'n'Awe and the sim. A LvB_UE priority item, that only triggers when you have the UE buff up with more than 2 seconds left, a Flame Shock on your target also with more than 2 seconds left and your shock cooldown being ready now or in at most a second.

#34 Bainato

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 06:53 PM

In some testing on a dummy it doesn't seem that tying LvB to Unleash Elements to double dip Unleash Flame with FS is a dps gain. In order to ensure that FS was active while casting LvB I had to prioritize Unleash Elements over SS and LL which is a poor trade as my LvB crits for ~23k which is approximately the same as my non-crit LL. The problem here is that there doesn't seem to be enough FS time without using the FS glyph and not push LL and SS down. If you don't push SS and LL down then you'll very seldom have an opportunity to use LvB_UEF while stationary, let alone with any movement. All of my sim results were within 100 dps so using the caster axe might produce different results, but I was unable to see an increase using LvB_UEF in enhsim using 359 agility weapons.

#35 Rouncer

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 07:18 PM

Sim isn't modeling the double consumption so it's useless in this context. I opened a ticket asking Ziff to add it as an option.

EnhSim - enhsim - View Issue #8487: New item for the Priority list

#36 Warrah

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 02:09 AM

In reference to:
Priority Queue

Like many classes, Enhancement Shamans don't have a set rotation, and instead use a priority queue. This concept is fairly straightforward - the higher a ability is in the queue, the higher priority it has. This means that if it's off cooldown and available, use it, if not, go to the next ability, if it's unavailable, go to the next, etc.
Here is what a level 85 priority queue might look like. Sim your setup to find an optimal list. Don't be afraid to mess with MW5_4/3!

Priority Abbreviation Meaning
1 ST_0 Searing Totem with 0 ticks remaining
2 SS Stormstrike
3 LL Lava Lash
4 MW5_LB Maelstrom Weapon x5 stacks + Lightning Bolt
5 FS_UEF Flame Shock if the Unleash Flame buff is present
6 UE Unleash Elements
7 ES Earth Shock
8 SW Spirit Wolves
9 ST Searing Totem (with x ticks remaining, set in sim)

I know that its probably something simple that I am missing but I am a little confused about the Unleash Flame buff. First of all, how is UF applied to target? I assumed that it was from UE that unleashed the buffs that are applied to a Shaman's weapons, but then if this is true (which is why im confused) then why isn't UE higher up in our priority que, or at least before FS inorder to take adavantage of the buff?

#37 Chillbro

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 04:36 AM

The main reason it's above is back in 4.1(and still for me and some others) MW_5 bellow FS_UEF and above UE was a DPS increase. What that meant is that if you have 5 stackks and UE is off CD, you would cast LB, then UE. And, if you got 5 stacks of MW in that one second somehow, you would cast FS instead. But now, you really could swap number 5 and 6 in that priority and it would be functionally the same.

#38 Deadri

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 12:36 PM

ShockAndAwe v6.20 - OMG!!! Working for Patch 4.2!!!!!!

#39 Sidira

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 06:53 AM

While my guild is nowhere near even attempting H:Rags at this point, I do like to look ahead a bit. Word on the street is is a must-have for casters. Because of our broken mechanics scaling with spell power, is this something enhancement should look into obtaining as well? Can we get this trinket into sim (I didn't see it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not in there)?

#40 Rouncer

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 02:09 PM

While my guild is nowhere near even attempting H:Rags at this point, I do like to look ahead a bit. Word on the street is is a must-have for casters. Because of our broken mechanics scaling with spell power, is this something enhancement should look into obtaining as well? Can we get this trinket into sim (I didn't see it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not in there)?



How would you fit that into the sim? Sim doesn't model execute mechanics since it doesn't model target health.

Anyway, Sorrowsong is not a good trinket for us. Even when the target is below 35% health and that proc has a 50% uptime it's still not as valuable for us as Tia's grace. You can see that by running your stats with a Tia's Grace equipped and then removing the Tia's grace from the sim but leaving it's mastery in place and adding 855 spellpower.




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