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So how about those heroic badges..


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#1 Trl

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 01:27 PM

Okey, here it is. Im a healer, or a priest more spesifically. Normally i try to mix the standard attributes, but i like to be more spirit heavy, and the mp5 i get is normally bonuses for me.

Me.Profile.Click.

So after collecting badges for some time i thought that a cash in was in order.

Badge rewards.

So do tell me where is the bloody upgrades? Have i done countless heroics to increase my stamina? Dont get me wrong, i think stamina is getting more and more important as a healer, but seriously... where is my fuckin items?

Bishop's Cloak

+15 Stamina
+15 Intellect
+44 Healing spells and effects
+8 Mana per 5 sec.

versus

+12 Stamina
+16 Intellect
+18 Spirit
+42 Heal

Thats a 25 badge cloak (epic) versus a blue non-heroic 5man cloak.

On this item alone, i lose 2.5 heal, 1 intellect, 18 spirit
gain 3 stamina, 8 mp5

It seems like every upgrade come in terms of Stamina and your spirit is swapped with mp5.
Are we supposed to ignore spirit totally? If thats so, please rework my talents aswell.
Personally i see mp5 more as a hybrid stat, and even if spirit is close to broken in TBC, i consider it MY class stat. But thats kinda hard when the bloody items dont even have it.

Same goes for the trinket. 288 + heal on use? Do any priests use these trinkets? Personally i stack whatever regen trinkets i can get, as my efficiancy sawks. I like the haste proc. on the scarab, but thats it. Is even the trinket aimed for hybrids?

#2 Turik

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 01:31 PM

One thing you have to remember, is that often that mp5 will regen more mana, FSR or not, than that spirit.

#3 Trl

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 01:34 PM

FSR is essential. You cant generelize like that.

#4 Abradix

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 01:35 PM

Another thing to keep in mind is that Paladin and Shaman healers dont really have any use for spirit at all. That's probably why they gave the cloak a stat that benefits every healing (mp5), allthough isnt optimal for most of them. On my feral druid I only have two badge items that are useful for me aswell, the new helm and the armor ring, it's still better then nothing though. I don't have a tradeskill that uses nethers either, so I have alot of badges rotting away for future use (such as healing gear), and I suppose you can fuel your DPS gear with any spare badges.

Bottom line is, for most classes there are only a few useful badge items, but for anyone that doesnt raid, those few items are small but still noticeable upgrades, exactly what I had imagined them to be before TBC was released.

#5 Praetorian

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 01:37 PM

Based on setting and healing style, people have spirit:mp5 equivalency ratios that range from ~2 to 8+. Realistically, sta/int/heal/mp5 items are designed for shamans and paladins optimally. Light's Justice is a priest/druid weapon mainly, and Shard of the Virtuous is a shaman/paladin weapon mainly.

The Fubar plugin RegenFu does a pretty good job of measuring your FSR status in combat and calculating your spirit:mp5 ratio.

#6 Trl

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 01:52 PM

Exactly. So everything within those badge rewards, is aimed for hybrids. Fair enough druids benefit from spirit, but you still cant match priests on it. Atleast not now. No doubt Blizzard will buff your spirit feedback once more.

#7 Praetorian

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:01 PM

Well, they're not min/max'd for any one class. If they were sta/int/spi/heal, they'd be useless to me as a healer for example. Everyone can use mp5. mp5 isn't as good for priests relative to spirit as it is for shamans/paladins, but it still does something. If you have a lower-quality item that is min/max'd for your own class, then it'll be equal or better, sure.

#8 Trl

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:16 PM

Thats not exactly true. The items contain stamina, intellect, heal and mp5. And thats exactly what hybrids need, especially paladins and shamans. If myself as a priest choose mp5 gear above spirit gear, i make a mockery of my talents, and ignore the fact that im the healer atm. which benefits most of it. Simply because i can wear it, doesnt make it right. I can also carry a warlock staff, but that would also be a major gimp.
IMHO badge rewards is hybrid healing aimed and not for priests.

#9 Chicken

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:23 PM

They are useful for Priests if you lack something comparable; they're not optimal. On the other hand, replacing the mp5 with Spirit makes them heavily inferior to any cloak with mp5 for the Hybrids.

The difference between not optimal and heavily inferior are pretty large.

Optimally there would be a healing cloak with spirit on it as well from badges, but Blizzard decided to go for one cloak per role. I'm personally not particularly impressed by the tanking cloak either, and I'm certain a Cat Druid would much rather have a strength/agi/stam cloak than a +ap/stam/agi cloak. The items are designed to be as generically useful as possible. The same extends to pretty much all the rewards from badges.

#10 sulliwan

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:27 PM

IMHO badge rewards is hybrid healing aimed and not for priests.


So what exactly are you complaining about? If you don't like them, don't use them. Priests still usually get more from straight mp5 than they do from spirit apart from very specific playstyles or gear combinations.
The badge rewards are the same for every class, making 2 differently itemized sets of healing gear would be silly if you can just have 1 set that does the job just as well for everyone.

This thread belongs in the official forums, not here.

#11 Malan

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:30 PM

Is it so hard to believe that every item there might not be designed for your class and spec?
As an enhance shaman there were 2 items I could use. (and pre 2.1, only 1 was worth taking) If you were expecting to upgrade every slot through heroic rewards, that's definitely not how it works. Each class/spec seems to be able to get 1-3 upgrades from badges and then if you were to run enough heroics (and assuming you were not doing KZ and getting better upgrades) you'd probably get 3-5 slots worth of epic gear from boss drops.

#12 Trl

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:32 PM

The point is that there should items balanced around all classes. Whats the point working yourself up to heroic rewards as a priests, when everything is aimed towards hybrids? We need spirit, atleast some of us still consider it valuable. MP5 doesnt work for me, spirit does.

And do you have any problems with this thread beeing here? Its a WoW forum, or isnt it?

The fact that a 5man blue non-heroic cloak > 25 badge Epic reward. Ridiculous.

#13 Malan

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:34 PM

And do you have any problems with this thread beeing here? Its a WoW forum, or isnt it?


Yes it is, but at this point you're just shoving your viewpoint into our faces over and over and refusing to listen to the logic of the situation that's been posted. This is a forum about WoW yes, but it has higher standards than the official WoW forums, and right now you're just whining.

#14 Trl

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:35 PM

So what exactly are you complaining about? If you don't like them, don't use them. Priests still usually get more from straight mp5 than they do from spirit apart from very specific playstyles or gear combinations.
The badge rewards are the same for every class, making 2 differently itemized sets of healing gear would be silly if you can just have 1 set that does the job just as well for everyone.

This thread belongs in the official forums, not here.


Funny. This just shows you have totally missed the point.

#15 Trl

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:37 PM

Yes it is, but at this point you're just shoving your viewpoint into our faces over and over and refusing to listen to the logic of the situation that's been posted. This is a forum about WoW yes, but it has higher standards than the official WoW forums, and right now you're just whining.


I suggest you get off your high horse and actually tell me what im refusing to acknowledge.
There is a difference between whining and calling down on mis-information and generelization.

#16 Trl

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:39 PM

Actually, just close the thread. Thought this forum had people with half a brain. Obviously trolls with zero understanding for game mechanics exist everywhere.

#17 pinchet

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:40 PM

You can close your own thread, eh?

#18 snape

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:41 PM

We have far more people with much more than half a brain on this forum. Reasons were given about your specific gripe being the way it is - and it's absolutely true.

If you want an item with Spirit, then perhaps Badge rewards isn't where you're going to find it. I'm sorry that they didn't cater to Priests specifically (and even then a specific subset of the Priest community - the Spirit guys) when designing the Heroic Badge rewards.

#19 sulliwan

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:41 PM

Funny. This just shows you have totally missed the point.


You are whining about the items not being optimally itemized for your class. Well, guess what, they're also not optimally itemized for any other class. They're itemized to work for any healing class and I don't see anything wrong with that.

#20 Praetorian

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Posted 28 May 2007 - 02:42 PM

The point is that there should items balanced around all classes. Whats the point working yourself up to heroic rewards as a priests, when everything is aimed towards hybrids? We need spirit, atleast some of us still consider it valuable. MP5 doesnt work for me, spirit does.

And do you have any problems with this thread beeing here? Its a WoW forum, or isnt it?

The fact that a 5man blue non-heroic cloak > 25 badge Epic reward. Ridiculous.

You are an idiot. The moment you said "i make a mockery of my talents" it became apparent that you were approaching this from an irrational perspective.

Every class/spec has an optimal itemization pattern they'd favor. Rogues wish every item was budgeted like Edgewalker Longboots.

Blizzard had two options with heroic items:

1) They could make dozens of items for each slot, tailored for every spec. They could have healing gear with pure heal/crit for paladins, heal/mp5 for shamans, heal/spi for priests, and heal/spi/mp5 for druids. They could have str-heavy DPS jewelry for enhancement shamans and warriors, and agi-heavy stuff for hunters. They could have dam/crit gear for destruction locks, mages, and elemental shamans, and pure +dam gear for affliction locks and shadow priests. And so forth. And everyone would get every heroic reward and use nothing else until they got raid loot that was itemized the same way but higher ilvl.

2) They could make "average" epics that aren't perfect for any class, but are palatable for all of them. They'd be useful for some, but not amazing, and not irreplaceable. They are, after all, guaranteed purchaseable epics that you can get after a few instance runs without having to win a roll or the like. That's what they did.

There's nothing else to discuss here.




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