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Shadow Priest PVE Guide (4.3 Updated)


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#1 vykas

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 09:20 PM

Regarding this thread:
Welcome to the Shadow Priest PVE Guild for 4.3! Please note this is a work in progress, as time permits I will update this thread with all relevant information as it comes to light.
= Introduction=
The information in this thread is relevant to Shadow Priest DPS in a PVE environment, specifically at end-game raiding levels. The information contained here is a compilation of contributions gleaned from various sources such as Elitist Jerks, Wowhead, and Shadowpriest.com as well as personal experience. All data presented will attempt to be empirical.

That said, I would like to take a moment to thank those who have helped compile this information by contributing experiences, data, and other invaluable resources through the various locations where Shadow Priests gather. I will attempt to be as concise as possible in my outline of the current discussion and theory-crafting surrounding the Shadow tree of the Priest class.
= General=
==Frequently Asked Questions==
Q: Is there a haste cap/plateau/threshold/etc?
A: Short answer, no. Shadow does not have any achievable haste caps at this time. More information about haste below.

Q: Should I reach the hit cap?
A: Simulations demonstrate that hit rating is a DPS increase until cap, however actually achieving the cap is a matter of preference. It is important to note that while hit is important, it is highly not recommended to actually gem or enchant for it.

Q: Should I use the Shadow Fiend on cool down?
A: Yes. Ultimately it is a DPS increase two fold, one by actually doing damage itself and two, by returning mana to the caster to allow for continued damage output.

Q: When do I refresh my DoTs?
A: The simplest answer is whenever they are about to expire or, if you happen to gain a buff (bloodlust, trinket proc, etc.) prior to them needing to be refreshed. Please see the DoT Refreshing section for further information.

Q: I changed my spec, and on a training dummy my new spec gives me more DPS!
A: What you do on a training dummy is irrelevant, not only is your sample data far too small to rule out RNG, you're also missing lots of buffs/target debuffs that will change the way certain talents perform.
==Abbreviations==

[table="head"]Abbreviation | Meaning
Spriest | Shadow Priest
VE | Vampiric Embrace
VT | Vampiric Touch
DP | Devouring Plague
SW:P | Shadow Word: Pain
SW:D | Shadow Word: Death
MF | Mind Flay
MB | Mind Blast
iMB | Improved Mind Blast
AA/DAA | Archangel/ Dark Archangel
AoE | Area of Effect
DPET | Damage per execute time
ICD | Internal Cooldown
GCD | Global Cooldown
BiS | Best in Slot
RNG | Random Number Generator
DoT | Damage over time
[/table]

=Talents=
==Current Spec==
Base Talent Spec: (8/0/31)+2
==Talent Overview==
Shadow

[table="head"]Tier | Talent | Notes | Recommendation
1 | Darkness | 3% increase to Spell haste. | Required.
1 | Improved Shadow Word: Pain | Increase to SW: P. | Required.
1 | Veiled Shadows | Reduced CD on Fade and Shadowfiend. | Highly Recommended.
2 | Improved Mind Blast | Reduced CD and healing debuff. | Highly Recommended.
2 | Improved Devouring Plague | Instant 30% of total damage. | Required.
2 | Twisted Faith | Increase to spell damage and spirit to hit conversion. | Required.
3 | Shadowform | Increased shadow damage, reduction to damage taken and 5% spell haste. | Required.
3 | Harnessed Shadows | Increased Shadow Orb generation. | Required.
4 | Vampiric Embrace | Healing Aura based on single target damage. | Required.
4 | Masochism | Mana return from damage taken including SW: D. | Highly Recommended.
4 | Mind Melt | Increase SW:D damage on targets <25%, causes MS to reduce cast time of MB by 50% stacks x2. | Highly Recommended.
5 | Pain and Suffering | Refreshes SW:P and reduces SW: D backlash damage. | Required.
5 | Vampiric Touch | Damage dealing spell, adds replenishment on MB casts. | Required.
6 | Sin and Punishment | Dispell protection for VT and Shadowfiend CD reduction. | Highly Recommended.
6 | Shadowy Apparition | Shadow damage proc. | Recommended.
7 | Dispersion | Mana regeneration CD, also 90% damage reduction. | Required.[/table]


Discipline

[table="head"]Tier | Talent | Notes | Recommendation
1 | Twin Disciplines | Increase spell damage. | Required.
1 | Mental Agility | Mana reduction for instant cast spells. (2/3) | Highly Recommended.
2 | Evangelism | Increase shadow periodic spell damage. | Required.
2 | Archangel | Consumes Evangelism stacks, returns mana, increases damage to MF, SW: D, MS and MB. | Required.[/table]


This leaves 2 points free to be used elsewhere. It is recommended to either finish out Mental Agility or pick up Inner Sanctum. Points could also be used to pick up some more utility spells such as Psychic Horror but these points are merely preference.
==Glyphs==
Prime:

Major:

Minor:
  • Individual’s Choice
  • Individual’s Choice
  • Individual’s Choice
=Stats & Gearing=
==Stats==

Intellect:
Intellect provides spell power at a 1:1 ratio prior to bonuses and 0.00154% crit, as well as increases mana by 17.53 per point.

Hit Rating:
Hit increases the chance that a spell will land on its intended target. 102.45 hit rating gives 1% to hit with spells. Hit cap is 17% or 1742 Rating. Once the cap has been reached, hit’s value greatly diminishes.

In addition Shadow Priests (along with other healing hybrids) receive hit from spirit through talents (Twisted Faith). Same rules apply, once the hit cap has been reached, spirit becomes useless.

Haste Rating:
128.05 haste rating gives 1% spell haste. Haste rating scales multiplicatively with other sources of haste—and cannot reduce the duration of the global cool down below 1.0 second.

Critical Strike Rating:
179.28 crit rating gives 1% to crit.

Mastery Rating:
179.28 mastery rating adds 1 point to mastery which increases the damage of Shadow Orb Power by 1.45% which once consumed by a Mind Blast or Mind Spike provides the buff Empowered Shadow.

==Stat Priorities==
When considering your own stat weights it is recommended that you download SimulationCraft or similar tools and base your decisions around your individual character. However, the below order should be somewhat correct in most situations.

[table]Int | >> | Hit (to cap) | > | Haste | ≥ | Mastery | > | Crit[/table]


Please note that the latter three stats will be in constant flux as more and new gear becomes available.
==Reforging==
How you reforge will be based on the following rules:
  • Are you hit capped?
    Yes: Reforge any extra hit/spirit to haste where possible.
    No: Reforge mastery/crit to hit/spirit.
  • Does it have haste on it?
    Yes: Go to the next rule.
    No: Reforge mastery/crit to haste, leave hit/spirit as is.
  • Reforge crit to mastery if the above has been done.
Additionally there are sites like AskMrRobot.com which offer automated suggestions based on stat weights derived from SimC.
==Gemming==

[table="head"]Socket | Gem
Meta: | Burning Shadowspirit Diamond
Red: | Brilliant Inferno Ruby
Yellow: | Reckless Ember Topaz
Blue: | Veiled Demonseye or Purified Demonseye
[/table]


When to ignore the socket bonus:
Generally speaking, if a socket bonus is less than 20 Intellect (or 30 of any rating stat), then the consensus is that a Brilliant Inferno Ruby is far more beneficial than attempting to match a socket. However, it is highly recommended that you use SimulationCraft to determine your individual scale factors.
==Set Bonuses==
Regalia of Dying Light Flame
==Enchanting==

[table="head"]Slot | Regular enchant | Profession specific | Tinker (Engineering*)
Head | Arcanum of Hyjal | - | -
Shoulders | Greater Inscription of Charged Lodestone | Felfire Inscription | -
Back | Enchant Cloak - Greater Intellect | Lightweave Embroidery | Flexweave Underlay
Chest | Enchant Chest - Peerless Stats | - |-
Wrist | Enchant Bracer - Mighty Intellect | Draconic Embossment - Intellect / Socket Bracer |-
Hands | Enchant Gloves - Greater Mastery | Socket Gloves | Synapse Springs
Belt | Ebonsteel Belt Buckle | - | Nitro Boost (utility slot, tinker variable)
Legs | Powerful Ghostly Spellthread | Sanctified Spellthread | - | -
Boots | Enchant Boots - Lavawalker | - |-
Finger | - | Enchant Ring - Intellect | - |-
Weapon | Enchant Weapon - Power Torrent | - | -
Off-Hand | Enchant Off-Hand - Superior Intellect | - | -[/table]

* Note on Engineering: All tinkers now stack with standard enchants.
==Professions==

[table="head"]Main profession | Benefits
Alchemy: | Mixology
Blacksmithing: | Socket Bracer and Socket Gloves
Enchanting: | Enchant Ring - Intellect x 2
Engineering: | Synapse Springs
Herbalism: | Lifeblood
Inscription: | Felfire Inscription
Jewelcrafting: | Brilliant Chimera's Eye x 3
Leatherworking: | Draconic Embossment - Intellect
Mining: | Toughness
Skinning: | Master of Anatomy
Tailoring: | Lightweave Embroidery[/table]

==Consumables==

[table]Flask: | Flask of the Draconic Mind or Flask of Battle
Food: | Severed Sagefish Head or Seafood Magnifique Feast
Potion: | Volcanic Potion (Pre-pot and use during bloodlust/heroism)[/table]

=Spells & Rotation=
==Spell Priority==
  • Shadow Word: Pain
  • Mind Blast (if Orbs 3,2,1)
  • Vampiric Touch
  • Devouring Plague
  • Mind Blast (no Orbs)
  • Shadow Word: Death (target ≤ 25%)
  • Archangel
  • Shadowfiend
  • Mind Flay

As a Shadow Priest, your primary concern is managing the Empowered Shadow buff. That being said, how you manage that is for the most part up to you. Since, unlike other classes, Shadow Priests do not have to apply debuffs to function at their fullest potential, there really is no set rotation as it were.

While Shadow Word: Pain has a relitivly low DPET, since it is one of our main ways of continually spawning Shadow Orbs in conjunction with being refreshed via Mind Flay, it falls a bit higher on the priority list. Uptime for this spell should be as close to 100% as possible.

The key is getting your Empowered Shadow buff up as soon as possible through the generation of shadow orbs (via SW:P and MF). The amount of orbs generated prior to casting Mind Blast has no bearing on Empowered Shadow, so best case would be to cast a Mind Blast as soon as an orb is generated, reapply DoTs and continue with the rest of the spell priorities.

Since Mind Blast’s DPET increases with the number of shadow orbs available it is optimal to cast it when orbs are present, however, a Mind Blast with no shadow orbs still has a higher DPET than Mind Flay and should be used cool downs permitting.

While the Shadowfiend has a low DPET, it has the added benefit of returning mana to the caster thus enabling more damage throughput. It is wise to use it as often as possible (unless you find yourself struggling to manage your mana—mainly newer raiders whom may undergear certain content—then you would want to save it for times of need).

Shadow Word: Death is an interesting spell to consider in your DPS rotation. It functions in two ways; One, it is considered an execute phase spell—talented (Mind Melt)—when the target is <25% health (and with Glyph of Shadow Word: Death you can hit it twice); and two, it is a mana regeneration talent (Masochism) much in the same vein as a Warlocks Life Tap however SW:D has the added ability to cause damage while regenerating mana.
==Optimal Opener==
For the most part there really isn’t a “set-in-stone” opener for Shadow Priests. With Empowered Shadow in mind, you will want to cast the spells that are likely to generate shadow orbs on your target as quickly as possible. For the most part a “safe” opening rotation would be to follow (loosely) the spell priorities listed above, such as:

[table]Shadow Word: Pain | â–º | Vampiric Touch | â–º | Devouring Plague | â–º | Mind Blast | â–º | Mind Flay until Dark Evangelism.[/table]


Then continue to follow the priority above. You would be forsaking some uptime on Empowered Shadow for the peace of mind of having all your DoTs rolling.

Alternatively, you could opt to attempt to force an orb proc by opening with:

[table] Shadow Word: Pain | â–º | Mind Flay (until orbs) | â–º | Mind Blast | â–º | Vampiric Touch | â–º | Devouring Plague | â–º | Mind Flay[/table]


Then continue to follow the priority above. Here you are holding off on higher DPET spells in favor of getting that first Shadow Orb prior to Mind Blast so that your DoTs benefit from Empowered Shadow as soon as they're cast.

As well, depending on the situation, it is possible to pre-cast Vampiric Touch (along with consuming a Volcanic Potion) just as your tank pulls (provided you have some prior warning). This allows you to have one of your most effective DoTs on your target as soon as battle starts (similar to some fire mages who pre-cast Pyroblast). You will want to refresh this once Empowered Shadow is rolling.

By the time you run thought either initial sequence (unless you are pristinely unlucky) you should have generated your next orb by the time Mind Blast is off cool down and thus can keep your Empowered Shadow rolling.

==AoE & Multiple Targets==
Shadow Priest AoE damage (in the form of Mind Sear) has had a rollercoaster ride of effectiveness for the past few patches. Mind Sear has gone from extremely powerful, to beating a mob with a wet noodle, to being fairly decent compared to most other classes. Aside from a buff to damage, one new feature to this lovely spell is that it can now be cast on friendly targets (such as a tank or other melee) to allow for you to channel without interruption.

Multi-target encounters provide the ability to apply several of your main DoTs (mana providing) to each target thus gaining a substantial increase to overall damage output.

=Advanced Topics=
==Haste==
Haste has become a far more interesting and advanced stat than it had once been prior to 4.0. It was redesigned to benefit damage- and healing-over-time spells by allowing them to tick faster and thus reducing the overall duration of those spells. This is important because with enough haste your DoTs will tick with enough frequency to allow for additional ticks to occur. Below are a few examples of those points where we can gain an additional tick:

Vampiric Touch

[TABLE="head"]{colsp=3}Without Dark Intent |{colsp=3} With Dark Intent
Ticks | Rating | Goblin | Ticks | Rating | Goblin
+1 | 218 | 90 | +1 | 0 | 0
+2 | 2589 | 2437 | +2 | 2141 | 1993
+3 | 4951 | 4776 | +3 | 4431 | 4264
+4 | 7326 | 7127 | +4 | 6740 | 6546
+5 | 9698 | 9476 | +5 | 9043 | 8827[/TABLE]


Devouring Plague

[TABLE="head"]{colsp=3}Without Dark Intent |{colsp=3} With Dark Intent
Ticks | Rating | Goblin | Ticks | Rating | Goblin
+1 | 0 | 0 | +1 | 0 | 0
+2 | 1255 | 1115 | +2 | 845 | 710
+3 | 2737 | 2583 | +3 | 2284 | 2135
+4 | 4220 | 4051 | +4 | 3724 | 3560
+5 | 5691 | 5508 | +5 | 5152 | 4975
+6 | 7179 | 6981 | +6 | 6597 | 6405
[/TABLE]


Shadow Word: Pain

[TABLE="head"]{colsp=3}Without Dark Intent |{colsp=3} With Dark Intent
Ticks | Rating | Goblin | Ticks | Rating | Goblin
+1 | 21 | 0 | +1 | 0 | 0
+2 | 1993 | 1846 | +2 | 1562 | 1419
+3 | 3970 | 3804 | +3 | 3482 | 3320
+4 | 5945 | 5759 | +4 | 5399 | 5219
+5 | 7913 | 7913 | +5 | 7310 | 7111[/TABLE]


A very interesting thing happens when you reach one of these extra tick points: the duration of your damage- or healing-over-time spells increases from its hastened duration back to its natural duration. This is important to note because while the ticks are still ticking at roughly the same frequency as they were prior to hitting one of these points, and thus doing roughly the same DPS, they are now doing it for a slightly longer time. That extra time allows for you to insert other damage-dealing abilites such as Mind Flay (which aside from being our nuke is also behaves as a DoT benefiting from haste).

There are several formulas which are important to note, one calculates cast speed and another calculates the haste rating required for additional ticks.

To calculate the hastened cast time of a spell, use the following formula:

New_Cast_Time = Normal_Cast_Time / ((1 + (Haste_Rating / 12805)) * Shadow_Form * Darkness)
Where Shadow_Form = 1.05 and Darkness = 1.03

Example, if we take Mind Blast with a 1.5 second Normal_Cast_Time and a 950 Haste_Rating, we will get the following:
New_Cast_Time = 1.5 / ((1 + (950 / 12805)) * 1.05 * 1.03) = 1.291 sec


To calculate the haste required for additional DoT ticks, use the following formula:

Tick_Speed_Required = (Base_Frequency * Base_Tick_Speed) / (No_of_Ticks - 0.5)
Where No_Of_Ticks is the number of ticks you would like to achieve.

Example, if we wanted to apply this to Vampiric Touch (5 second Base Frequency, 3 second Base Tick Speed), wanting to achieve 2 additional tick (7), we would do the following:

Tick_Speed_Required = (5 * 3) / (7 - 0.5) = 2.307 seconds

Now to calculate the percentage of haste required to achieve this tick speed, using the following formula:

Haste_Percent = (Base_Tick_Speed / (Tick_Speed_Required + 0.00049999)) - 1
Haste_Percent = (3 / (2.307 + 0.00049999)) - 1 = 0.300108 = 30.0%


==DoT Refreshing==
Since 4.0 the basic rules for DoT behavior has changed. The basic rule of thumb to follow is:

[table]Buffs to you | â–º |DoTs| â–º |Debuffs to boss[/table]


So what does this mean? Basically, dots benefit by your buffs on a per cast basis; while benefiting from debuffs on your target on a per tick basis. This is true for all DoT classes.

So looking at the dots we cast—Shadow Word: Pain, Vampiric Touch, and Devouring Plague—there are several things to keep in mind. Vampiric Touch and Devouring Plague function in virtually the same fashion. They benefit from buffs for their entire duration (unless refreshed); while Shadow Word: Pain is a little trickier. Since Shadow Word: Pain is continually refreshed by Mind Flay you will have points where it is not buffed and for the most part that's okay, you should never have to recast that spell.

So it is appropriate to recast both Vampiric Touch and Devouring Plague once a buff is present—trinkets, enchants, bloodlust, etc. That said, our main concern is the Empowered Shadow buff. It should be present prior to dot casts at all times. If, however, you are unlucky and your Empowered Shadows falls off and you need to cast your dots, simply recast them once the buff is present again.

==Mana Management==
Shadow Priests have several tools at their disposal. The most common one is Shadowfiend, on a 4 minute cooldown if you have 2/2 Veiled Shadows. The talent Sin and Punishment reduces the cooldown of your Shadowfiend by 10 seconds each time Mind Flay crits, so in reality your cooldown may end being 3 minutes or even lower. Naturally in later tiers this will get even better as we crit more on Mind Flay, and the 2 piece T11 bonus is nice for this as well, increasing Mind Flay's crit chance by 5%.

The second obvious tool is Dark Archangel. Getting 25% of your total mana back instantly is a nice ability, and you can use this every 90 seconds.

The third obvious tool is Dispersion. This is 36% more of your total mana back over 6 seconds. The drawback is not being able to DPS during this time, but some fights have phase changes where you can use this, and other fights have mechanics that you can use Dispersion to almost completely nullify. Generally speaking however this should be lowest on the list when it comes to a mana cooldown due to the DPS hit you take.

The final tool, which isn't always obvious to the beginner, is Shadow Word: Death and how the new talent Masochism applies to it. In essence, this our version of Life Tap, except we even get to do DPS while casting it. If you're having mana issues on a fight, make sure you're casting SWD on cooldown. This gets even better sub 25% on a boss with the glyph of SW:D.

In addition, the Glyph of Spirit Tap can allow you to regen mana on fights with adds, if you can successfully snipe killing blows with SW:D.
=Other=
==Macros==
Several macros for multi-target situations:
The following macros allow you to cast each spell on your target or your focus target. Shift is used as the modifier here, but can be changed depending on preferences.

#showtooltip
/cast [@focus,mod:shift][@target] Vampiric Touch

#showtooltip
/cast [@focus,mod:shift][@target] Shadow Word: Pain

#showtooltip
/cast [@focus,mod:shift][@target] Mind Flay
==Tools & Addons==
SimulationCraft
One of the best tools currently at our disposal is SimulationCraft:

SimulationCraft is a tool to explore combat mechanics in the popular MMO RPG World of Warcraft. It is a multi-player event-driven simulator written in C++ that models raid damage. Increasing class synergy and the prevalence of proc-based combat modifiers have eroded the accuracy of traditional calculators that rely upon closed-form approximations to model very complex mechanics. The goal of this simulator is to close the accuracy gap while maintaining a performance level high enough to calculate relative stat weights to aid gear selection.

As such there are two sites associated with this tool. One is the actual project home found here. The site includes the client download (for both Mac and WIndows) as well as a basic "how to."

In addition to that site there is also SimulationCraft.org which offers sample analysis generated by SimulationCraft. Basically giving easy access to simulation results of all classes and specs at various gear levels (and patches).

World of Logs
Another excelent tool for any raider is World of Logs (WoL).

World of Logs [is a] combat log analyzer which allows gamers to save, share and analyze their raiding experiences conveniently and thoroughly in World of Warcraft.

There is a learning curve to effectively utilize this tool, however the rewards are fairly apparent (especially if you are a raid leader or class leader for your guild) as you can get a far more detailed and accurate accounting of nearly every aspect of any encounter you have uploaded. And for those who swear by the DPS meter, this is a far more accurate gauge of performance.

There is a very brief "help" section (found here) on the site that will give you the basics of how to go from setting up your account to uploading your log and analyzing the data. As well as a forum available to ask any questions that may arise.
==Upcoming Patch Information==
No current information.

==Credits==
  • Jmickey: of the Warlock forum for style and formatting cues.
  • Keldion: for the use of his DOT haste calculations spreadsheet.
  • Snowy: for information gathered from the previous Shadow Priest guide.
==To Do==
  • Addons
==Change Log==
  • Tuesday, July 11, 2011 - Post created
  • Friday, July 22, 2011 - Added DOT haste information; Started "Credits" list
  • Sunday, September 11, 2011 - Added DoT Refreshing section
  • Tuesday, November 29, 2011 - Updated for 4.3


#2 vykas

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 09:21 PM

[reserved]

#3 Szeretlek

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 09:58 PM

#showtooltip
/cast [@focus,mod:shift,nochanneling:Mind Flay] Mind Flay; [@target,nochanneling:Mind Flay] Mind Flay

This is a dps loss macro. Better "clip" MF, because it cant clip now =)

#4 alinna

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 11:55 PM

This leaves 2 points free to be used elsewhere. It is recommended to finish out Mental Agility, though not necessary. Points could be used to pick up some more utility spells such as Psychic Horror but again, not necessary.


From a progression raiding standpoint, it would be much better to recommend using the free points to pick up Inner Sanctum. Out of our DPS spells, Mental Agility only affects Devouring Plague, SW:P and SW:D.

#5 vykas

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:06 AM

From a progression raiding standpoint, it would be much better to recommend using the free points to pick up Inner Sanctum. Out of our DPS spells, Mental Agility only affects Devouring Plague, SW:P and SW:D.


Good point, that recommendation was in the previous guide so I left it. So I'll put both in.

#6 Sunius

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:46 AM

Q: Spirit converts to hit, should I roll for spirit gear?
A: A basic rule of thumb is that “just because you can use spirit gear that doesn’t mean that you should.” Ideally Healers should have priority on spirit gear. Remember when looking for upgrades, the best way to find out your own stat weights is to use a tool such as SimulationCraft.


I wouldn't quite agree with it, I think it's better to leave hit gear for warlocks and mages for two reasons:

1. There is way more spirit gear than it is hit gear, while the specs count that want hit gear is same as spirit (if you count shadowpriests as spirit users).
2. In most of our BiS setups we use spirit gear, not hit one.

For numbers on spirit gear vs hit gear count:
T11:
Spirit - 51 (Armor - Items - World of Warcraft)
Hit - 12 (Armor - Items - World of Warcraft)
T12:
Spirit - 26 (Armor - Items - World of Warcraft)
Hit - 10 (Armor - Items - World of Warcraft)

#7 Elimbras

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 02:28 PM

I don't agree with you.
There is in fact no spirit cloth gear in Firelands, and your difference in numbers stems from the fact that you have 14 T12 set pieces with spirit for priests.

There are some spirit neck / rings / offhands / etc., but there will be on high priority for healers, because they are the only pieces that a disc/holy priest can hope to get directly from raids with spirit, and healers will want spirit on most pieces if they can. I don't know how high priority mages and warlocks will put on hit pieces, given that they can regorge it and (likely) reach the cap with a few native pieces and this reforging.

#8 Sunius

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 02:38 PM

I don't agree with you.
There is in fact no spirit cloth gear in Firelands, and your difference in numbers stems from the fact that you have 14 T12 set pieces with spirit for priests.

There are some spirit neck / rings / offhands / etc., but there will be on high priority for healers, because they are the only pieces that a disc/holy priest can hope to get directly from raids with spirit, and healers will want spirit on most pieces if they can. I don't know how high priority mages and warlocks will put on hit pieces, given that they can regorge it and (likely) reach the cap with a few native pieces and this reforging.


Thing is, there are more mages/warlocks than priest healers, and if you count without tier sets, there's around equal amount of hit and spirit gear. AFAIK, there'll be more desire for hit gear (more people will want it), and I think that the logic 'healers gear up first' is outdated.

#9 Elimbras

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 04:59 PM

But healers want more spirit than dps want hit. I know that with my (main) healing gear set, I'm hit over-capped by a large margin.

And don't forget that rings / back / necks are shared by all armor types. The competition is then between all healers and all magical dps: both numbers are close I would guess (3 healers in 10, with 5 dps, including likely two melees / hunts, and 6-7 healers in 25, for 15-16 dps, including about half magical).

#10 Aboy

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:03 PM

While this is all very noble of you to leave gear for healers and other dps based on what OTHER people want, the fact remains, that spirit>hit for Spriests, Why have a stat that does one thing only, when you could have a stat that does the exact same thing AND regens your mana. OF course the benefit of the raid come into play when you are actually working a progression boss, but for the purpose of theory, spirit instead of hit rating. The only exception I could think of would be if a hit rating piece had more haste than a spirit piece.

#11 CaseyTheRetard

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:27 PM

  • Q&A: Remove the entire question "Spirit converts to hit, should I roll for spirit gear?"; loot policy is outside the scope of a shadow priest guide.
  • Abbreviations: "Sprist" should be "Spriest"
  • Glyphs: I'd list Spirit Tap as "Recommended".
  • Stats: Intellect describes some of the effects ignoring bonuses, and some including bonuses . Do one or the other, or list both and be explicit. For consistency, handle other stats the same way.

    Crit and Mastery both convert at 179.28 at level 85.
  • Stat Priorites: I have never seen a simulationcraft run that shows hit rating outperforming haste rating. Should be Int >> Haste >= Hit >= Mastery > Crit.
  • Enchanting: Missing the engineering tinker for gloves.
  • Spell Priority: You seem to be encouraging SW:D on cooldown, when it should really only be used when the target is below 25% health or the caster is below 10% (ish) mana.
  • Haste: It would be nice to add "DI" and "DI+Goblin" columns to the tick tables. Maybe add a brief mention of the fact that Imp DP scales with haste rating only, and not with other haste effects.

    Shadowform _IS_ the 5% haste aura. They are not separate effects.
  • Macros: These could be shortened to

    #showtooltip
    /cast [@focus,mod:shift][@target] <Spellname>
  • SimulationCraft: Typos: "disposial", "assiciated".


#12 ildon

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 08:10 PM

While this is all very noble of you to leave gear for healers and other dps based on what OTHER people want, the fact remains, that spirit>hit for Spriests, Why have a stat that does one thing only, when you could have a stat that does the exact same thing AND regens your mana. OF course the benefit of the raid come into play when you are actually working a progression boss, but for the purpose of theory, spirit instead of hit rating. The only exception I could think of would be if a hit rating piece had more haste than a spirit piece.


Spirit is identical to hit unless you're a human, and then the margin is extremely small. When in-combat, unless you're a heal spec, spirit does not contribute to mana regen. And there are no raid encounters in which you drop combat for any duration.

Whether or not you pass spirit items to healers or hit items to non-spirit using classes is up to you and them, but for the purposes of min/maxing and gearing in raids, spirit = hit (unless you're a human and then it's 1:1.03) end of discussion.

Personally I prefer spirit items so I can use them to heal when needed, but generally I use whatever item is better.

  • Q&A: Remove the entire question "Spirit converts to hit, should I roll for spirit gear?"; loot policy is outside the scope of a shadow priest guide.


This is probably the best solution.

#13 Szeretlek

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:06 PM

Stat Priorites: I have never seen a simulationcraft run that shows hit rating outperforming haste rating. Should be Int >> Haste >= Hit >= Mastery > Crit.

simulate it not as patchwerk style. Hit more important then haste.

#14 Arphastas

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 07:55 AM

simulate it not as patchwerk style. Hit more important then haste.


Right that is just one small situation, most fights are more similar to patchwerk than a 'helter-skelter' fight.

#15 Szeretlek

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:09 AM

Right that is just one small situation, most fights are more similar to patchwerk than a 'helter-skelter' fight.

I agreed that Helter Skelter is extremly absurd
http://elitistjerks....aclysm_edition/ that topic explains how add little or heavy movement in simcraft.

#16 Szeretlek

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 08:16 AM

I just simulate BiS setup with light movement
raid_events+=/movement,players_only=1,first=53,cooldown=85,duration=7,last=360
and following results were gained:
Int: 1
Hit: 0.5429
Haste: 0.54
Matery: 0.5185
Crit: 0.4705

With heavy movement
raid_events+=/movement,players_only=1,first=10,cooldown=10,duration=4
Int: 1
Hit: 0.6536
Haste: 0.4958
Matery: 0.4079
Crit: 0.4110

Most fights include light movement (even Baleroc) so Hit (Spirit) more important then haste even on so patchwerk-style boss.
So 1st of all gain Hitcap, then stack Haste.

#17 vykas

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 12:58 PM

  • Q&A: Remove the entire question "Spirit converts to hit, should I roll for spirit gear?"; loot policy is outside the scope of a shadow priest guide.
  • Abbreviations: "Sprist" should be "Spriest"
  • Glyphs: I'd list Spirit Tap as "Recommended".
  • Stats: Intellect describes some of the effects ignoring bonuses, and some including bonuses . Do one or the other, or list both and be explicit. For consistency, handle other stats the same way.

    Crit and Mastery both convert at 179.28 at level 85.
  • Stat Priorites: I have never seen a simulationcraft run that shows hit rating outperforming haste rating. Should be Int >> Haste >= Hit >= Mastery > Crit.
  • Enchanting: Missing the engineering tinker for gloves.
  • Spell Priority: You seem to be encouraging SW:D on cooldown, when it should really only be used when the target is below 25% health or the caster is below 10% (ish) mana.
  • Haste: It would be nice to add "DI" and "DI+Goblin" columns to the tick tables. Maybe add a brief mention of the fact that Imp DP scales with haste rating only, and not with other haste effects.

    Shadowform _IS_ the 5% haste aura. They are not separate effects.
  • Macros: These could be shortened to

    #showtooltip
    /cast [@focus,mod:shift][@target] <Spellname>
  • SimulationCraft: Typos: "disposial", "assiciated".


Thanks for the feedback and the sharp eye! I'll remove the Spirit gear Q&A since it does seem to be an interesting point of contention (even thought it was mentioned in the previous Shadow Priest Guide).

However, on the stat priorities, I opted for the more realistic encounter sims than purely patchwork, because aside from hitting target dummies, there isn't an encounter that allows you to stand still currently. Although, if the consensus is that we use those numbers then I will change it. But I chose to err on the side of caution.

I will clarify the use of SW:D. And work on those other suggestions asap!

#18 UnholY_Prince

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 05:18 AM

Hit gained a bit of value with the MB buff and the DoT nerfs. Since MB makes up a greater % of our damage missing it with the long cooldown hurts more than it did with DoTs which can be quickly reapplied.

#19 meek

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 12:41 PM

edit: done

#20 bowlpack

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Posted 15 July 2011 - 02:56 PM

- With this being a PVE guide, I would change both Archangel and Evangelism from "Highly Recommended" to "Required".
- For optimal openers; pre-casting a VT yields a 'free-cast' if timed correctly on the pull (if possible). I have a pre-pot/vt macro I use for fights that I can be in casting range before the pull.




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